5/16 SHEBA AMPS 135 o/n nadir 95

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Bron and Sheba (GA)

Bron and Sheba (GA)

Member Since 2015
Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/sheba-4-15-amps-334.136262/#post-1405260

Despite my best efforts to try and control the drop, it got away from me and Sheba is bouncing again.
I tested at +2, which I normally don't do as it is too soon for the insulin to have kicked in, but Sheba kept coming to me and jumping on my lap and asking for food. So I tested and she had dropped 425 to 338 so I gave her the +3 meal with added 16 carb at +2. I tested hourly and kept feeding the drop with 16 carb but she still got away from me. I guess it is trial and error. I thought I had got her last night but she outfoxed me yet again.
Any advice or suggestions would be welcome please

A sad day on LL with Milo's passing
 
Wow Sheba!! I think someone likes that trampoline WAY too much!!

Don't really have any other suggestions for you other than to continue trying to feed the drop and hope to find the right combination to work

Now come on Sheba!! Get with the program!!! <<insert stern mama voice here>>
 
You're home a lot, Bron, and I think you also have the option of going back up to 5.5u and then carbing her to keep her over 50. Since you reduced almost 5 days ago, she's only had 2 hours of green numbers. Looking at her ss - after the 14th when she's clearing bounces, she's only getting into the 100's. So, I would call it a failed reduction and go back to the 5.5u.

There are a couple of options then that may help you.

Some people have found that not reducing the dose until their cat goes below 50 on three separate occasions can help flatten out the cycles.
Some people decide that they will just shave the dose a tiny amount when the cat goes below 50, instead of taking the full 0.25u reduction.

What is not safe, is to mix and match those options, ie, don't decide to let her go 3 times under 50 and then just shave the dose. Either one option or the other. These are choices for people who have discovered that their cat is more prone to failing reductions. Maybe getting a little more insulin into her will help flatten her cycles out. Have you read the "feeding the curve" post in the bottom section of the Where Can I Find? post? There is a little more there on this topic too.
 
No advice from me Bron but just popping in to see how you are doing. Sounds very frustrating for you at the moment but hopefully with some good advice, you will get Sheba off that darn trampoline. Hang in there!
 
suki & crystal said:
No advice from me Bron but just popping in to see how you are doing. Sounds very frustrating for you at the moment but hopefully with some good advice, you will get Sheba off that darn trampoline. Hang in there!
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Thanks for looking in Suki. Sheba is not having a good day. Still eating but not feeling great with the high BSL:(
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
You're home a lot, Bron, and I think you also have the option of going back up to 5.5u and then carbing her to keep her over 50. Since you reduced almost 5 days ago, she's only had 2 hours of green numbers. Looking at her ss - after the 14th when she's clearing bounces, she's only getting into the 100's. So, I would call it a failed reduction and go back to the 5.5u.

There are a couple of options then that may help you.

Some people have found that not reducing the dose until their cat goes below 50 on three separate occasions can help flatten out the cycles.
Some people decide that they will just shave the dose a tiny amount when the cat goes below 50, instead of taking the full 0.25u reduction.

What is not safe, is to mix and match those options, ie, don't decide to let her go 3 times under 50 and then just shave the dose. Either one option or the other. These are choices for people who have discovered that their cat is more prone to failing reductions. Maybe getting a little more insulin into her will help flatten her cycles out. Have you read the "feeding the curve" post in the bottom section of the Where Can I Find? post? There is a little more there on this topic too.
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@julie & punkin (ga)
Thanks for the response Julie. Sheba has been hi all day and has looked like she felt pretty lousy. She was down to 429 at PMPS which I was very relieved to see.
She usually drops fairly fast after a bounce. Her appetite was still good which I was happy about because I was beginning to wonder if she was sick. I had drawn up the increased dose in the syringe to give at PMPS as you had suggested, but when she had started to drop after the bounce, I thought it might be better to wait til the morning to do the increase. I don't want to accelerate the drop. So I gave her the 5.25 units she has been on for the last several days.
I hope that is the OK thing to do.

I also have swapped her +3 meal back to + 2 to see if I can get a bit more food aboard before the drop starts.
It is now +3 and she is dropping fairly fast. I have just given her a good teaspoon of 16 carbs.

The carb part is a bit of a concern.......Sheba is fed a home prepared raw and cooked diet with the only carbs from the pumpkin and 20 grams of 4 carb canned food twice a day. To increase the carbs I can either change the 4 carb to a higher carb or substitute some of the raw with canned (which I don't really want to do as she is doing so well on the raw). I could try changing the 4 carb to the 16 carb (20grams) to add to the +2 meal to see if it helps slow the drop. She needs something with a bit of a punch to be affective.. Otherwise if I go with a high carb I will have to find one which is low phosphorus. At the moment I just use a Fancy Feast canned which is high in phosphorus but I use very little of it ....only if dropping too fast or low.

I think I would go with the 3x below 50 option. That is how Sheba earned the last reduction.
Yes I have read the 'feeding the curve' more than once.. There are some great bits of information in that package.
I will have a look at this condo before I give the AMPS to see if you have had a chance to respond. Thanks so much.

ETA: that was a really strong drop. I was all prepared for it but I think it may have got away again! I fed the +3 meal at +2, as mentioned above. At + 3 she had dropped to 322 so I gave her some 16 carb then and again at +3.5. At +4 she had dropped down to 248 :eek: so I gave her 22 carb food 2 teasp which slowed it down to a much better rate. When she is dropping like that only the high carb food seems to slow her enough to stop another bounce.
So now I am wondering.........if we increase her insulin up to 5.50 units, won't that make the drop even more severe ? This is so frustrating!:banghead:
 
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Bron, I think (If I'm understanding Julie's comment correctly) what she's saying is that before, on the 5.5 dose, it was at least taking Sheba down into green numbers....yes, she'd bounce, but then the bounce would clear pretty quickly and she'd go right back down into green numbers

Since the decrease to 5.25, she's still bounced, but isn't coming back down, even after her usual "bounce clearing" time

By going back up to 5.5, she may still bounce (she may bounce for the rest of her life!) but at least she'd be getting down into those better "healing numbers"
 
I see Sheba has taken over the Rainbow Queen crown. It used to be Neko's. :rolleyes:

A higher dose can also tamp down those highs, meaning not so far to drop. If you need a bit of HC early to slow the drop, then so be it. Neko is on raw and I would add a small bit of HC if I wanted an overall higher carb food. She loved her gravy topping.
 
Chris & China said:
Bron, I think (If I'm understanding Julie's comment correctly) what she's saying is that before, on the 5.5 dose, it was at least taking Sheba down into green numbers....yes, she'd bounce, but then the bounce would clear pretty quickly and she'd go right back down into green numbers

Since the decrease to 5.25, she's still bounced, but isn't coming back down, even after her usual "bounce clearing" time

By going back up to 5.5, she may still bounce (she may bounce for the rest of her life!) but at least she'd be getting down into those better "healing numbers"
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Thanks Chris for the explanation. Now I just have to explain it to Sheba:banghead:, she just loves that trampoline and then diving deep:cat:.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I see Sheba has taken over the Rainbow Queen crown. It used to be Neko's. :rolleyes:

A higher dose can also tamp down those highs, meaning not so far to drop. If you need a bit of HC early to slow the drop, then so be it. Neko is on raw and I would add a small bit of HC if I wanted an overall higher carb food. She loved her gravy topping.
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@Wendy&Neko
@julie & punkin (ga) I responded to an earlier post to you above Julie as well.:)
Thanks Wendy. Yes, she a is certainly doing all the colours of the rainbow. I'm not going to tell her she is the Rainbow Queen.....it might go to her head :joyful::joyful::joyful:
I tried last night to keep ahead of her with the drop. Not sure if I did, but the AMPS is encouraging. She has such strong drops and she does the big drop somewhere between the +3 to + 5 mark then tapers off to a slower rate (mostly, I hasten to add.....sometimes she just keeps going at the fast rate). She varies when she starts the drop, just to keep me on my toes. :rolleyes: I have decided to just test more often for a while, esp in the first 4/5 hours to try and stop her from bouncing. I had eased off on the testing a bit.

I was very happy to see the low preshot this morning.......but then I was in a quandary.....do I increase the dose with this shot or not. In the end I decided to stay with the 5.25 this morning and seek further guidance from you.
I am OK with going back up, but was unsure this morning with the lower preshot.

A question....hope it is not a silly one.......if I combine some 16 carb food with some 4 carb food, does that make it a 20 carb food? Or is it still a 16 carb food?

Thanks Wendy and Julie. I value your guidance. You are both amazing, you must spend hours of every day helping people and their cats on this forum:bighug::bighug:
 
You are always free to do what you want - and notice how the circumstances changed since I wrote that post - you got a 135amps this morning. Let's see how she does today. And I think it was smart not to increase as the bounce was starting to clear. Nobody needs a bounce clear + dose increase cycle to happen at the same time!

I spend between 2-6 hrs most days on the board - I work part-time and my kids are grown, so it's pretty easy to get sucked in. I suspect Wendy does the same. There are also others who do too, including Chris. Even at that many hours per day it's not possible to visit every cat's condo - it simply takes too long to read everything and look at spreadsheets to try to figure out what's going on. I think all of us who try to help go first to the people with questions, sick kitties or who hare having lots of trouble getting their cats regulated. And of course, both Wendy and I have a special spot in our hearts for the higher dose kitties. :D It's just an opportunity to give back for all the times people helped me with Punkin.
 
Chris & China said:
it depends on how much....if you mix an equal part 16% with equal parts 4%, that's an average of 10% (16+4 divided by 2)
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@Chris & China
Thanks for that calculation. I was way off base!!!!!:rolleyes::eek:
Julie was just telling me how much time you all spend helping others on the board. That is really so kind and good of you all to give that time to helping diabetic cats/carers. Thank you from me:bighug:
I always look forward to your comments / advice/ pictures :)
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
You are always free to do what you want - and notice how the circumstances changed since I wrote that post - you got a 135amps this morning. Let's see how she does today. And I think it was smart not to increase as the bounce was starting to clear. Nobody needs a bounce clear + dose increase cycle to happen at the same time!

I spend between 2-6 hrs most days on the board - I work part-time and my kids are grown, so it's pretty easy to get sucked in. I suspect Wendy does the same. There are also others who do too, including Chris. Even at that many hours per day it's not possible to visit every cat's condo - it simply takes too long to read everything and look at spreadsheets to try to figure out what's going on. I think all of us who try to help go first to the people with questions, sick kitties or who hare having lots of trouble getting their cats regulated. And of course, both Wendy and I have a special spot in our hearts for the higher dose kitties. :D It's just an opportunity to give back for all the times people helped me with Punkin.
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@julie & punkin (ga)
I will post tonight for advice for tomorrow morning's dose if that is ok.
That is an amazing amount of time to spend helping others. I can see how much time would be taken up looking at the SS and the condo and then writing a reply. I know how much you, Wendy and Chris have helped Sheba. I was at a loss as to where to go forward when I joined the board. Most vets know far less than you all know about diabetes dosing and feeding. I really think all vets should be made to attend lectures by experienced members of this board!
 
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