? 5/16 Oren; AMPS=268;+2.5=365;PMPS=302; advice re: vet response

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Megan,
I just did the Acro and IAA tests last week. The totals were as follows:
Vet time/ blood draw-$ 56.00
Test fees - $68.00 sent directly to Michigan St. University by check with the blood samples
Overnight fees- $35.00
The vet ended up drawing, spinning and packaging the blood/serum for me and I ended up sending it out because the vet did not want to set up an account. So you CAN send the sample in yourself- you would just need to get the blood drawn and spun- as per the requirements of MSU. Just be aware that there is a form that needs to be filled out and sent with the samples. The vet filled out this form for me so "technically" the results belong to the vet. I had 2 people from MSU tell me that on the phone.

If I were to do it again, I would order the "insulated UPS Mailers" from MSU. As this seems like it might be an easier option than trying to find a box that would fit the samples and rushing to the post office to have it overnight shipped. You pay for the shipping when you order the box from MSU so once everything is packaged with an ice pack you can just drop it off at a UPS location.
 
Megan & Oren said:
We are just over 1 wk. into the 2 wk. course of Tresaderm for his ears. He doesn't appear to be scratching at them as much.
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On a side note, I noticed this mention of Tresaderm. I looked at your spread and it looks like the last time you saw a green was the day before starting that. I have used Tresaderm on diabetic cats twice, Smokey and Cecil, and it caused a rise in both their numbers. Smokey was still insulin dependent and it was bad enough we stopped the med. Cecil was in remission and the high numbers broke when we went down to once a day instead of twice. It is not something I will use on a diabetic cat unless absolutely necessary.
 
I'm so sorry you're having so many problems with your vet Megan. I'm also not sure I would spend too much more of your time on emailing her and trying to educate her, especially if she's going to bill you for providing her with information and ongoing training!

While it may be asking too much to expect most vets to fully agree with their clients making dosing adjustments etc on their own, it is possible to find a vet who will at least only question or raise mild objections without firing you. I'm only now realizing how lucky I was with our vet - the vet we see most at the practice we're with wasn't really all that happy with what I was doing, but she did at least concede that it was to an extent up to me how I treated my cat. Though that may, with hindsight, have been influenced by the senior vet who also owns the practice as the one time since Rosa's diagnosis that we saw her for something completely unrelated, she seemed to be unconcerned about what I was doing as it was clearly working - I would have to put that down to experience over recent graduation. I did have to agree to keep them in the loop by sending Rosa's ss to them every couple of weeks to stop their constant nagging about fructosamine tests and in-office curves and I was given some fairly in depth questioning by our regular vet at the practice (who refuses to this day to believe that Rosa wasn't symptomatically hypo at readings in the mid-upper 40s) but at no point did they threaten to fire us as customers!! I also did a lot of nodding and smiling (even to the extent of saying "OK" when some things were suggested that I knew I wasn't going to do). I do think it's probably best not to mention the protocol you're following in any detail when you're looking for a new vet unless you can find a practice that specifically mentions it themselves - I did all my dose adjustments very quietly...they were on Rosa's spreadsheet but at no point did I draw attention to them (well, until she passed her OTJ trial - I took a lot of pleasure in emailing them with that information of course ;) )!!

I have to say that as this vet is advocating a dose reduction any time that Oren gets a reading below 150, it sounds as though she is aiming for regulation only and is not really considering remission as a possibility. IMO, 150 is too high a number for a dose reduction - it's below renal threshold but above the normal range for a cat. I'm not sure why she would want you to reduce if he's not even getting into normal range unless her main aim is regulation and management (and not particularly tight regulation either if she doesn't ever want him running in normal numbers).

I think if I was in your position, I'd be looking for a new vet rather than trying to educate one who thinks she's already had all the education she needs!! Maybe one day she'll realize that there's always something new to learn and that graduating doesn't mean she knows it all already, but it's not your job to teach her that especially when she wants you to pay her for helping her learn!
 
Melanie and Smokey said:
On a side note, I noticed this mention of Tresaderm. I looked at your spread and it looks like the last time you saw a green was the day before starting that. I have used Tresaderm on diabetic cats twice, Smokey and Cecil, and it caused a rise in both their numbers. Smokey was still insulin dependent and it was bad enough we stopped the med. Cecil was in remission and the high numbers broke when we went down to once a day instead of twice. It is not something I will use on a diabetic cat unless absolutely necessary.
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oh lovely! He hates getting it anyway, i think I'll drop to 1 drop per ear 1x a day, and lie about that now too. Do you know what ingredients in it affect the BG levels? Jeebus, who would have thought???
 
It has dexamethasone in it, a corticosteroid. I believe that is the problem ingredient.

How much longer do you have to go on it? Cutting down the dose but still using it might leave you with high BGs but reduced benefit. If you are almost done with it might be best to just finish it out at full dose. I haven't read enough to know what you are treating with the Tresaderm, sometimes we need to treat the other things and take our lumps in the diabetes arena for a bit. Just wanted to give you a heads up that you have something there that might be throwing you into higher numbers.
 
ack, i have 5 more days!! After you mentioned I started googling and found out about the steroid. Another reason his thirst may have increased. she prescribed it for 2 wks? His ears were dirty/itchy, she did an ear cytology. No mites but bacterial infection. the pres. says 1-2 drops/ear 12 hrs apart. I have been doing 2 drops, perhaps 1 is enough? She also gave me a wash to use 1x week, T8 keto flush. I have used it 2x now. I do note on petmeds site it says Tresaderm dose is 5-15 drops, so perhaps vet was aware of potential and cut it. Still would have been nice for her to mention it might elevate BG??
 
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Just a comment..the vet is basically a general practioner...she has a bit of knowledge about a lot of disorders, but does not have a specialty. Here in Canada, if a person sees their GP doctor and has any kind of serious condition they are usually referred to a specialist who actually knows about that specific condition. I would certainly not expect my GP to have all the answers if I was diagnosed with diabetes and she would be the first to agree. Ity is too bad that vets, especially newer vets, can't admit that they do not have in depth information about various pet diseases. You need a vet for unusual happenings or problems but you can probably work your way through a lot of the treatment program with the help of the longer term people on this forum. Fighting with the vet will end up being an exercise in frustration especially if she is still "green" enough to have a "god complex"
 
Unless you're lucky enough to have a super cat specialist in town, I think the best you can ever hope for is a vet that's not a fool in the classic sense. By that I mean a vet who knows his/her limitations, refers appropriately, and understands even a semi-intelligent caregiver armed with an online community of 10K+ individuals, many of whom have been dealing with this tiny little problem in a specific animal species for many years, with online access to the best research, and available 24/7 just MIGHT maybe be capable of a better result than she can in a 9-5 office treating every animal and problem under the sun. I think that proposition is a real "no brainer". Maybe that's just me. But the beginning of common sense is knowing your limitations. Ask a medical diagnostic system how to fix a bicycle tire and the results might be interesting.

Common sense ain't so common. I'd trust implicitly a doctor with a little knowledge and a lot of common sense. It's a far better situation than the reverse. Replicating it in a computer is one of the great unsolved problems of computer science. Long ago, a young student was showing off an early version of a medical expert system to Marvin Minsky at the MIT AI Lab. Minsky, the wise guy, typed in "sick". The program asked him if he'd been having problems with his teeth as the result of a hyperactive spelling corrector that corrected "sick" to "sig" as in flexible sigmoidoscopy and had gotten to his teeth through a complex sequence.

Yes, I know this is far afield and please excuse me for this diarrhea of the brain and flashback to my days as an engineer at Schlumberger-Doll Research in Ridgefield before I stood on the wrong line and went to med. school. I frequently get a little hypomanic as I plunge into the depths.
 
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In case you decide to go vet hunting, Megan
Google Search results for "veterinarian near Richmond, VA". If you do the search using your address, you'll get a better feel for the locations. Many of them appear to have some reviews.
There are some Vet Interview Topics in my signature link.

 
How's that sweet boy? And how are you? If you need some duct tape to tape your head to keep the brains from splattering everywhere when your head explodes from all the information overload, I can send you some.
 
Hi Rose; you are so amazing; thanks so much for finding time in your incredible whirlwind of dealing w/ Ms. Zoey to check in on us!:bighug:. It sounds like your little fighter is holding her own, and you and DH are as well. I'm so glad!!! Still sending truckloads of vines to all of you!!

Well, it's not going great. I have been toying with whether to post the 2nd follow-up email I received this a.m from vet, as it's still making steam come out of my ears. I know that email is an imperfect medium for communication at times, and I'm trying hard to give the benefit of the doubt but when I get a few paragraphs, separated with "Is that clear?" (yes literally bolded like that) 3 times, I find it hard to not be insulted, offended and angry! She was clear about when she would reduce a dose, but not when she would increase. My 2nd communication to her asked for that clarification, and what exactly was her target BG for this reduced dose, here is the answer:

"The length and detail of the emails that you are sending will be beyond the scope of me to answer regularly, I apologize. I know that I have taken a lot of time with you in the initial visit, our phone conversations to discuss follow up, in person in the lobby and on the phone, and in this email and in my previous email to you, and feel that I have answered all of the questions that you need to provide great care to your cat, bottom line my goal. When I give diabetic cats owners email address I am able to make recommendations based on curves that they supply me, and these interactions are kept brief, unless of course there is a crisis."
The extra charge I was referring to will apply in the following situations:

-When you come in for recheck visits you will be charged.

-If you want me to go through your first email, read all of the attachments about the TR method, answer your very specific questions about food, BG levels etc. I know that I will not soon be adopting this method to care for my other diabetic patients, it is just not widely accepted enough yet. For that reason I would be spending that time in order to answer your questions and to help you and your cat in a way that you require.

-Also, if the follow up communications need to be as lengthy as they have been, I will need to charge you a recheck.

Is this clear?

"I am in the process of consulting with a veterinary nutritionist about Oren, and will contact you regarding the results of that consult shortly. I hope to be able to provide you with an answer about short term and long term diet that are satisfactory to you.
I can’t describe to you how I interpret my curves, there is no algorithm (no high, no low…this is one of my problems with skimming the protocol that you are using). In general I like my cat curves on lantus to range between 100-300 per day. But more importantly , it has to do with how the curve looks. I would not like you to increase the dose of insulin on your own EVER without speaking with me (email or person).

To review, here is what I am recommending to you for follow up:

Change in dose: check bg 4 days after, most useful is 6-8 hours injection (not preshot)

Get ketones in urine call office

Get negative glucose in urine email me or call me

Get a BG reading under 150, decrease all subsequent doses by 0.5 unit until we can talk

Emergency: go to the clinic

Is this clear? Hopefully this makes your life easier and less stressful, and I do believe it is what he needs.

I don’t think we need to refill the buprinex. I would finish the fortiflora and ear meds (2 weeks). Systemic absorption through the skin of steroids is limited but ultimately the effect is unkown.

she basically offered for me to bring him back for the recheck of his ears and blood just for the fPL test, and would not charge me the 'recheck' fee for that.

"The 22nd is not too soon. We can make that visit a technician appointment, if all we do is weigh him, take an ear sample and a blood sample. That means we would not do a PE at that time, but I will still call you with advise/communicate results. I can make that exception for you if you think that the above outlined plan will work for us in the future."

Is this clear?
I am encouraged by the last reading on Sunday night preshot of 299! I can’t wait to see the curve. Hope we can continue to work together to help him through this...
Dr. XXXXX

I'm beginning to wonder if I should ask if there is a word count or perhaps if she has to scroll down beyond the visible screen, is that the criteria for 'length and detail" that she will respond to. For the record, my 3 questions were when she felt we'd determined his body had had time to adjust to the dose, and when to increase, what makes FF food "hard to digest" (apparently she can't answer that w/o consulting a veterinary nutrionist, hm, I thought she was fully trained and up on all the latest?) and could the steroid in the Tresaderm ear drops be affecting his BG levels?
The rest of my email was providing info. on his weight, assessment of him after completing the course of Bupe, his ears at the halfway mark of treatment, noting that i was checking ketones regularly already, and that I would agree to continue the DM diet through until the followup. Ok, 4 questions, if you count asking for clarification on was I getting charged for providing the previous info?!

It's clear to me i cannot work with her, I think I will take him in on a day when she is not in for this follow up, then not return. My struggle is to know whether I should respond again. I should to take the high road and not cause a scene, but I feel her manner was most unpleasant and unprofessional and I am smarting at being treated like a pesty 4 year old. I think it is extremely poor form to essentially tell your client to STFU and just send me a BG curve every 2 wks. How dare you pay me and expect to be able to ask questions about your cat's treatment? and anyway, she's already sufficiently answered all my questions
She, a practicing professional of 6 years after all, should not be questioned. Apparently, her opinion of 'doing the best for him' is to keep him at numbers that will still cause him long term damage, and be reactionary if something goes south.

I no doubt am persona non grata around that office now(or will be soon) and it will likely be extremely uncomfortable to even go back in. I'd appreciate honest opinions, Am I really such a PITA, unreasonable person?

I wish I had your sense of humor, resilience and patience Rose; feeling a bit shaken in my self-confidence right now.

I promise to shut up about this now, before you all consider me a whiny, pesty 4 year old too..
 
Megan & Oren said:
Am I really such a PITA, unreasonable person?
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NOPE NOT AT ALL!
You are doing what is best for Oren. You have every right in the world to ask your vet questions and keep asking until all questions are addressed and you get the information in a way that you understand.
At this point I guess you can agree to disagree and start looking for another vet. If you feel that you need a follow up, I would do like you said and go when she is off that day.

Please don't feel the need to stop posting about this. I needed support last night and I'm sure that I will need more. That is what we are all here for- to support each other!:bighug::bighug:
 
Thanks Andrea. It's all so exhausting, no?
It's those "IS THIS CLEAR" statements that are digging me.. perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but I find that very condescending and rude???
 
Megan & Oren said:
Am I really such a PITA, unreasonable person?
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No you're not! You're asking the questions you need answers to so that you can do the best thing for Oren. It's been a long time since I've read such a rude and condescending email from anyone - I completely agree with you on that. I don't see how she can claim that she can maintain a valid vet-client relationship with you if that's the way she's going to speak to you, by email or otherwise. I'd be calling new vets right about now rather than replying to her - frustrating though it is to have her refuse to listen to you, I really don't think she's worth the time and effort of you even attempting to reply.
 
That email would make me furious. The attitude is condescending. Her goals are probably fine for a person who isn't hometesting and doesn't want to be involved. But you are an involved cat parent and you want to understand the reasons behind everything. A secure professional likes dealing with someone like that. She strikes me as young and insecure and like she has to be the Person In Charge.

I can't believe she is excited at a 299 preshot. She can't see a high dose cat because she doesn't have any experience in spotting it. I don't think you're ever going to be satisfied with not being able to respond to his high numbers by increasing his dose. Trying to figure out how to deal with her is like repeatedly picking at a scab - it's just prolonging your anguish and dissatisfaction.

I just think you need a new vet. There's gotta be someone out there who would see you more as an involved partner.
 
yeah. my assessment is she is completely coming across as in insecure relatively inexperienced person who is threatened by someone who does present info. she might not know about. Pretty lame. Also, she had the gall to talk about importance of a trust relationship?? Apparently, it's a one way, I trust her completely and don't question her vast knowledge, and she trusts me to STFU. Nice client/dr. trust building there sweetie.

All that being said, I don't want to let her get away scot free w/ being that rude and condescending. I don't deserve to be spoken to that way, and I feel it's important I let her know that, in a polite, non-condescending manner, as I leave her practice behind.

and all THAT being said; his preshot number tonight; 201?!! oh man...
 
You have to do what is right for you, but personally, I'd walk away without another word. She's not going to get it, and you only have so much time and energy. It seems like it wouldn't be hard to find a better vet. The bar is set pretty low.
 
I agree, the bar is set pretty low...
I wouldn't go back at all, she'll get the message. ( maybe if you make it to remission, send her a card celebrating how you did it Your Way.....)

and with her condescension....
I be posting negative reviews all over the internet.....
yelp... and such....
couldn't work with dictator approach.... and not open to suggestions.... come to mind....
 
The secret to being resilient is making a conscious decision, each and every day, to face what lies ahead and find the humor even when you want to scream and cry. That's it. You choose to not let something get the better of you. You choose to let go of things you can't control and move on, giving your best because at the end of the day, that's what helps you sleep. And then you find your inner sarcasm and figure out how to laugh or joke about it. Laughter, even sarcastically, heals the hurts/frustrations and eases the tensions.

Oren is your boy and you want what's best for him. I feel you put that out there to this vet and she just doesn't get it. If it were me, I'd move on and not waste any more of my time. I'd let her have the last word. (for a while) If I wanted that test done I'd do just like you said and go when she's not there, get the results and then move on. And that letter? I'd probably post it on Yelp for all to see how it is she treats her clients. The letter speaks for itself. Those who do not find it offensive will not find her offensive. You've not slandered or libeled her ...it's her own lesson to be learned at her own hand. Then, after securing a new vet, I'd send a break up letter that simply said: You are not the caliber of vet we feel we need to best handle our case so we are terminating our relationship. IS THIS CLEAR.

Thumb your nose at her (and use your middle finger if it makes you feel better) and start the search for someone new. (IMHO... LOL)

Let us know if you want us all to send our LB waste to her. She's a really crappy vet.
 
Rose said:
Thumb your nose at her (and use your middle finger if it makes you feel better) and start the search for someone new. (IMHO... LOL)

Let us know if you want us all to send our LB waste to her. She's a really crappy vet.
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Rose, I love you!!! maybe I should start a contest now; send me your suggestions for a breakup letter, incorporating IS THIS CLEAR... this could get fun... I'm feeling better already. How is sweet Zoey tonight?
 
My first reaction would be to tear a strip up one side of her and down the other. Her e-mail and attitude is beyond ignorant.

HOWEVER...I don't know what it is like where you live, but many vet clinics keep in touch with each other. As tempting as it would be to let her know that her 6 years as a vet means basically squat when it comes to diabetic cats and her inter-personal skills are non-existent, I would be concerned about you getting labelled as a "rebel pet-parent" "trouble-maker" "non-compliant client" etc.

My suggestion would be to find another vet who is open-minded and you can work with, establish a good relationship and later down the line, let her know that you are doing quite well with a knowledgable vet. Just like dealing with diabetic kitties sometimes patience is good when it comes to payback.

Good luck with finding a real vet! :)
 
Hi, I would move on and look for another vet. There is enough stress that goes with diabetes and other conditions in itself. I don't feel all the effort with this vet is worth it. You need a vet that you are comfortable with

I had a vet that didn't want me to up the dose for my cat either since his clinical signs were fine and he consistently mentioned overdosing. ( I was only at 1.5 units) My cat was in the 200-400 range on the alpha track. He felt 200 was just as good as 100 and that I was overstressing about the numbers. He felt two weeks were needed for the cat to settle into the dose. I decided to look for another vet, although I kept this vet until I found a new one. I called other vets and asked to make an appointment. I asked how they felt about home testing for diabetes. I asked them what they thought were good insulin, good control of diabetes, diet, etc. I explained that I could do curves at home and mentioned the e FDMB website.


One vet told me frankly, " your cat will hate you with all those pokes" I moved on quickly. Another vet new a lot about Feline diabetes , but she was definitely not comfortable with me doing curves at home. I found a vet now-- who is more responsive to my needs. Many times she will spend 30 minutes just discussing my cat or new information after check ups. We disagree a bit on food choices, but I make the discussion and she is supportive. I feel confident when I need to raise the dose and I give her my curves periodically during check up times. However, I feel this vet is very good in many areas and is caring and respectful. She is very informing for dental, heart issues, and other care of an older pet.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
My first reaction would be to tear a strip up one side of her and down the other. Her e-mail and attitude is beyond ignorant.

HOWEVER...I don't know what it is like where you live, but many vet clinics keep in touch with each other. As tempting as it would be to let her know that her 6 years as a vet means basically squat when it comes to diabetic cats and her inter-personal skills are non-existent, I would be concerned about you getting labelled as a "rebel pet-parent" "trouble-maker" "non-compliant client" etc.

My suggestion would be to find another vet who is open-minded and you can work with, establish a good relationship and later down the line, let her know that you are doing quite well with a knowledgable vet. Just like dealing with diabetic kitties sometimes patience is good when it comes to payback.

Good luck with finding a real vet! :)
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MaryAnn; I had the exact same thought, my name will be mud if I were to let her have it now. I recognize that I may already have a rep w/in this practice and I will low-key it until I can find someone to trust and work with well. And then, tell her to take her condescending attitude and shove it up her 6 yrs of experience...;)
I kind of like the idea of telling her to keep an eye out on YELP or other social media for my review (but never actually do it, just so she sweats it).
 
Sandman said:
What I need is a flesh and blood vet advocate. I was very angry with that nameless, faceless McAllen vet and beginning to turn that anger inward. Like sluggo's response to TR, it's another thing I can do nothing about.

About all you can do is look at my SS and reassure me I'm doing fine, doing all I can for my cat.

But I can't stand not knowing. I can't stand being put in the position of giving my cat chemo without a neutrophil count versus not giving it and hoping he really had IBD and not cancer. Just giving the chemo and rolling the bones is like fingernails on the chalkboard to me. Just having access to a CBC in 3 weeks and knowing I will would take a tremendous load off my mind. But it is impossible.
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Maybe you could just pick any clinic and get the CBC done even if you never go back there again. That would give you more time to look for a better vet. Thankfully we have found a vet who is open to the Roomp/Rand protocol and whenever I have a question I email her and she gives me her opinion and then says just follow the protocol so we are very happy to have found her and she often doesn't even charge a fee when we go in for a chat. But I had a similar experience with an internal medicine specialist who refused to do the best treatment protocol for lymphoma and I had this same tension as you and Megan are having with vets who won't listen so after some conflict we found the most wonderful oncologists who were not only skilled but so respectful and so willing to listen to my opinion. They were a blessing and so along with our current general practice vet we have been very blessed with our vets. The internal medicine vet was excellent but not for us at that time. I hope you and Megan find a vet who is suitable for your needs. Dealing with illness is hard enough without having to battle your health care professional every step of the way. I would follow the protocol as it is written and that way you have no doubt you are doing the right thing for your cats regardless of what other vets say. Dr. Rand is an expert in this field and following the protocol you are following what she would recommend. All the best to you and Megan in finding the right vets and if you don't just follow the protocol and use the vets you have for other issues.
 
Megan & Oren said:
I kind of like the idea of telling her to keep an eye out on YELP or other social media for my review (but never actually do it, just so she sweats it).
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I had a bad experience with another vet and although it has been 5 months since I changed I am still biding my time. I never contacted them that I was not coming back...I had all the test results already and I never heard from them either. The clinic she works on has a FB page and ONE day I will be posting my review. Sometimes I just drool in anticipation. :cat:
 
i'm a bit curious as to whether she's shared anything w/ the other vets in this practice, and if so, how they feel she's handling it? I had seen one other woman before her, who was not super thrilled by the TR thing, but was so very much more skilled at being supportive. "You're doing a great job with him", shaved the little patches on his side to help reduce fur shots, showed me her technique for it etc., even offered to give me an old alpha track she thought she had (she too was a little skeptical of the human meter thing). I can respect differences of opinion, but not the way in which you treat someone. She has been there 12 years, and obviously has WAY more people skills than Doc ISTHATCLEAR. Problem is, I can't very likely continue w/ her now either...

Maybe I should make a hashtag #ISTHATCLEAR for twitter?! (I don't tweet)...
 
At this point you need to find a vet you can work with and plan your revenge for later. Dealing with a sweet kitty is draining enough..save your energy for the sugar dance and wait for your "revenge". I am sure that no matter what you said to this vet she would be offended. I still remember a people doctor years ago who gave me a prescription for an Rx for headaches. It made me so, so dizzy. I called her office and spoke to her...she said "that medication won't do that". I said "well I looked it up in the CPS (medication bible..I was working at a drugstore warehouse at that time) and she got all in a huff and said "do what you want". How professional was that???? Vets are the same and since this one is still a newbie in the amount of time she has been practising, you are challenging her "vet status" and being a threat to her "I am god" image.

When I interviewed my current vet I only wanted to know if she approved of home testing, would communicate directly with me and was open to me being an active participant in Tuxie's treatment. The rest has evolved from there. I have never told her I am following any protocol, simply that look at the spreadsheet and if you see any other approach let me know. So far she is letting me call the shots on how I deal with it. She has come to understand that I am not going all over the place like a yoyo and that I have a decent grasp of feline diabetes and its treatment.
 
I'd vent here with us, and then take the high road in real life. Your revenge can be getting the best possible care for Oren.

She may be an awesome vet in other ways, just a little over-controlling for this situation. You never know what's going on in her own life that could have contributed to her "IS THAT CLEAR?"
 
@julie & punkin (ga) , true I don't know what's going on in her life, and everyone can have a bad day... however, I DO KNOW what's going on in my life, a whole hell of a lot right now, and I kept my interactions with her on the up and up and not rude or condescending. I asked for help and information, from a professional that I'm paying, and didn't treat her in an unprofessional way. That's all I'm saying. I don't think her attitude was warranted, and I won't kiss her ***. I have and will stay on the high road. I should be able to expect the same from a professional.
 
I agree....vent here, high road with her.....until you get Oren regulated into beautiful numbers between 50 -120 or off insulin all together....at which point I would send her another email, including the "protocols that are not largely tested" that she will not be adopting anytime soon, and perhaps the spreadsheets of the, I believe 300 and some cats, this protocol has worked for on this site alone. I would also remind her that this is ONE SITE and there are MANY MANY others who follow this outside of that.

I would conclude that due to the length of the email you are sending and the research steps you have included, a fee of $300 may be made payable by her to you, along with a note of apology.....
 
Ugh!!!!! That vet is just wretched. How ignorant to want payment to read about a protocol that she should be reading about regardless, for her own professional insight. It's her job! And it's fascinating material! What a tool.

I would be tempted to rip her a new one, but I agree that it's better to just focus your energy on finding a new vet. People like that don't listen and always need to have the last word. I encountered one vet who got uppity with me for asking questions. I said something like "I'm sorry, is my concern for my cat an inconvenience to you?" She just got more assertive and told me that I should do exactly what she said, not question it, and if there was anything else I needed to know, she'd tell me. I did not go back to that practice.

I think if you can find a vet in your area who is on board with TR and understands high dose cats, that's awesome. If not, the next best thing is a vet who is openminded and understands that he/she doesn't know everything. Billie is on vet #4 now but he is great like that. He is super patient with my questions. When he doesn't know the answer or there isn't a clear cut answer, he'll say so, and I really appreciate that honesty. Billie has asthma and uses an inhaler now, but when she first started having attacks, I went through two vets who refused to put her on a steroid because they had it in their heads that diabetic cats can't take steroids under any circumstances. Meanwhile, she was having trouble breathing. We switched to our current vet and he put her on pred right away and got her coughing under control. I guess what I'm getting at is there are a lot of sub par vets out there, and it's worth shopping around until you find one who has his/her head on straight.

Good luck...sorry you had to deal with such a jerk!!!
 
as galling as it is Megan, I would vote with your feet and walk away, too much wasted energy on such a nonentity. Your revenge will be to get Oren OJC (just my humble opinion) . Get a new vet, one that respects your concerns and who will support you. Good luck.
 
Megan

I also thought your email to her was extremely well written. While maybe she's a good vet in other ways, I couldn't work with a vet that did not see me as an equal partner and my cat's true advocate. A veterinary practice is not a dictatorship and regardless of whether she was having a bad day or not, it is unprofessional to write to you in such s condescending manner.

I'd walk. And while I absolutely LOVE Rose's idea....I'd probably not say anything. If I got w bill in the mail for the email time, I'd send it back with the charges for your time.
 
I agree with Suki. If I don't like a shop or a business etc I always vote with my feet. I have done it several times; most often with hairdressers who get half way through your hair then make you wait while they finish off someone else. I never give them a second chance.

Good luck finding a good vet. There are many very good vets out there who are mature enough to listen to their clients and learn.
You are doing a great job being Oren's advocate and carer.
 
oh, and just to be clear; earlier in this thread i posted a first draft of the letter that got me the "IS THIS CLEAR" response. Let it be for the record, that the version i sent was actually edited down. I deleted the last paragraph entirely, took out any specific references to the TR protocol, and simply stated I'd agree to feed him the DM food for the short term of dealing w/ the pancreatitis and would bring him back for the fPL recheck, and deleted the comments about IAA and Acro tests and being uncomfortable with holding a dose causing such high numbers. Just stated that I was aware of overdose causing elevated BGs. In short, I neutered my comments to NOT be inflammatory. And still i got flamed.

Ok, I'm done. Just wanted to get that out there.
 
Just as an afterthought, I frequently send my vet articles, etc. she's always thrilled and has never billed me for it. She has even said "I learn so much from you". Well, I've learned a lot from her, too. Partnership. A vet should always strive to further educate themselves.

And on second thought, I might also consider writing a very, very polite response and telling her you appreciate her time but that you are leaving because you must have a vet who is willing to be open to learning and considering other options. If she responds, just thank her. Move on.
 
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