5/15 Pixie PMPS=85, +1=101, +2=92, +4=63

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caringcdn

caringcdn

Member Since 2014
Good morning to everyone! I hope for those of you that were up most of the night with your furry friends that you both have a calmer day today.

As you can see, I have switched over to the AccuCheck monitor to make it a little easier for managing the numbers. I have taken both an AccuCheck and Alphatrack reading in order to have a comparison point.

AMPS = 126 using AccuCheck and AMPS = 180 using Alphatrack. For me, this is helpful as it may take me a little while to adjust to lower numbers on the AccuCheck. Based on what I see with the numbers, Pixie curved upward yesterday evening following the skipped dose, until what time I'm not sure as my last reading was at +16. Just to summarize his numbers were as follows, using the Alphatrack:

May14, 2014
+11.75 = 140
+14 = 158
+16 = 189
+23.75 = 180

I gave Pixie 1.25u this morning, along with his vetergesic, but no subq fluids. He has eaten about 1 oz of food so far and I will wait a few hours before I administer the fluids, provided we're not in crisis mode. Wish me luck, Anne.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126 using AccuCheck, 1.25u

I wish you luck :) Have a good day, both of you.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126 using AccuCheck 1.25u

At +1=126 there is no change in the numbers. I gave Pixie his subq fluids, famotidine and cerenia because he seems to really need it today. He missed both subq fluids yesterday and I notice it because he's still parked at the water bowl. Hopefully, as his numbers improve, his thirst will subside and perhaps his appetite will improve with the cerenia and famotidine. Pixie was off the cerenia for 3 days (on 5, off 2 or 3) and is now restarting.

Rhiannon, I'm so glad for you that Shadow is OTJ, you must be ecstatic. I had a beautiful bull mastiff whose name was Shadow. Pixie is my last link to Shadow as it was Shadow who found Pixie, abandoned in our back yard. Pixie was less than 6 weeks and it was very cold, start of Fall. Shadow barked and barked while looking at something on the ground. As I walked over, I saw this little orange fluff shivering on the cold, wet ground. I brought him in knowing full well that it was a bad idea to bring a cat into our house as my daughter was extremely allergic to cats. Well we nursed him to health and my daughter learned to wash her hands after she pet the cat and all was well. Now, we have three cats and three dogs and my daughter, who still lives with us, tolerates them just well. They don't go in her bedroom and she doesn't over handle them.

Last night I sent my son, Joel who is studying veterinary medicine - first year in Australia, Pixie's links and his spreadsheet. I hope he has a chance to look at them because he thinks I may be letting Pixie suffer on too long. In Australia, there are very few cats as they are considered pests, so Joel is not sure if he will learn much about cats. I find that odd as when I look at the Tight Regulation Protocol, it was developed at Queensland University, Australia. So hopefully, Joel will learn all this great stuff and if he doesn't than I will make sure he's up-to-date on all this information. I'm hoping he leans toward a holistic, natural approach but I'm not sure yet. I must be in a chatty mood, sorry I'll stick to Pixie's updates. :smile:
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77 using AccuCheck 1.25u

Don't stick to just updating us on Pixie. We love to hear about the rest of your life.

It looks like Pixie is coming down pretty quickly now at the +2. Pixie isn't in any danger right now, but you can try to slow the drop with some food if Pixie will eat.

Off topic - I never did find your private message. Sorry!
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77 using AccuCheck 1.25u

Thanks Dyana, I think I need it again today.

Pixie seems to be dropping fast 49 points in 1 hour. He ate 0.5 oz of LC food and I can try to coax him to eat a little more but I don't think he'll eat just yet. I noticed he seems perkier but still parked on the water bowl.

Do I wait to try HC foods at around 50 on the AccuCheck or should I start sooner because his numbers are falling so quickly? Based on what has happened over the last week, the pattern is - Pixie doesn't want to eat and I try LC, HC and he doesn't eat, his numbers continue to fall at which point we get to numbers that are too low and Pixie still won't eat not even the HC with gravy and then I have to force feed him gravy in a syringe and if that doesn't work then I use the karo. If you advise me to give him a little gravy now, I can do that with a syringe. If you want me to wait until he gets to a certain number than that'll work as well. I will test again in 10 min at the +2.5 mark.

I forgot to post a link to last thread - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=118725&p=1243165#p1243165
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77 using AccuCheck 1.25u

It looks like Dyana may have left for work already. Personally, I would feed the high-carb food now to try to slow the drop. Will he eat any of it on his own?
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77 using AccuCheck 1.25u

Hi Anne,

Do you have any medium carb food? You could try some of that to see if it will slow the drop. I would hold off on the high carb. Pixie may surprise you and surf instead of continuing to drop.

If you don't have any medium carb, you can give him a small amount of the HC. His number isn't really to the point of needing the HC just yet. But it could slow the slide, especially since this morning's dose has to kicked in just yet.

Can you retest Pixie in about 20-30 minutes to see if he's still dropping so quickly?

~Suzanne
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77, +2.25=56

Pixie ate 2 tsp of MC mixed in with LC because he won't eat it straight up and he ate just prior to this last test. Now I know the results will not be reflected in this last test but hopefully in this next test in about 5 minutes in order to ensure they are about 15 minutes apart. If his numbers are still dropping, I will give 1 tsp of HC food with gravy if he'll eat it. He may because his appetite is kicking in and I bought a HC salmon with gravy. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. He loves seafood especially salmon. If he won't eat the HC, I'll give him 1 tsp of the gravy with a syringe.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77, +2.25=56

The carbs are in the gravy, so that's what you want to feed. After you test, if he is below 50, your plan sounds good. I'll be hopping on and off throughout the morning.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126,+2=77,+2.5=56,+2.75=56,+3=56

It seems like I'm apologizing all the time. Again, probably because of a little panic, I misquoted the times again. The reading was at +2.5=56 and not +2.25. This last reading was at +2.75 =56 which doesn't reflect any change however for my own information, I have been taking two tests each time in order to compare numbers. With the Alphatrack the numbers were as follows +2.5=70 and +2.75=65 indicating the MC and LC mix wasn't quite enough to stop the drop. So before he dropped any further, I tried feeding the Salmon in gravy but he wouldn't have any. So I syringed about 1 tsp of the gravy into his mouth and will retest at +3. I will not keep quoting two sets of readings as I know it will get confusing but I will keep an eye on the AT2 readings as they are a little more sensitive in detecting smaller declines. If Pixie is still dropping I will continue with the gravy.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56

You're doing great, Anne. Remember that 56 is a good number - it's not in the "danger" zone. Since we're looking at the numbers for the human meter, anything above 50 is good.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56

Just to let you know, comparing the two meters is going to get frustrating for you. I would pick one and stick with it, and base your decisions off that meter. A meter can have a 20% variance. So while the readings looked the same, the second 56 could have been as low as 46 or as high as 66. I've taken readings before and gotten results within 50 points of each other - obviously with higher numbers. Just wanted you to know that so you don't drive yourself crazy!
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56

Pixie is staying steady at 56 and I did give him an extra tsp of gravy. He probably didn't need it but I felt a little easier about giving it to him. Suzanne, you're right the two meters will drive me crazy so as soon as I am ready which should be soon, I will drop the AlphaTrack and stick to the AccuCheck. I will test again at +3.5 to see what he's doing. Thanks ladies for the help and encouragement thus far. You know I probably couldn't do this alone because it's just too scary, wondering if you're doing the right thing or harming him more. Having someone to talk you through this makes all the difference in the world. I guess you don't feel so alone.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +1=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56

Anne, you're doing great! We were doing it on our own without the board for 7 months. It was incredibly overwhelming. It still can be, but at least now there are others to bounce ideas off of!

I see you're feeding 3% carbs. I wonder if a 5 or 6% food might curb those early dives. Maybe not. There are a number of diving divas on here (Cobb is not one of them). But hopefully someone who has one will weigh in on managing those early dives without feeling as though they have to go directly to high carb.

I'll check back in to see Pixie's +3.5. Surf those healing numbers!!
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56, +3.5=58

This is a fantastic surf for Pixie! You've done a great job stabilizing the numbers.

Pixie is staying steady at 56 and I did give him an extra tsp of gravy. He probably didn't need it but I felt a little easier about giving it to him.
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That's perfectly okay, Anne. Sometimes it's easier to keep them above 50 than it is to bring them up once they fall below 50. (Some cats are easier to bring up than others.)

It's still early in the cycle, so you'll need to keep testing....but you've done a superb job this morning!
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56, +3.5=58

You know Suzanne, that's exactly what I am starting to think. Perhaps if I fed Pixie's first meal, a combination of LC(Merrick@4%) and the MC(Sensitivity with rice), he might not dip down so low, so quickly. The only thing I am wondering is if Pixie would do better at a lower dose now that his diet has been switched from Sensitivity to a LC food. I am even wondering if he's a cat that probably should have been treated initially with a LC diet without insulin to see if his numbers improved. The problem at the time was the vet had only certain brands at the office and Pixie didn't take to any of the Diabetic diets. So the vet recommended Sensitivity which the label indicates is guaranteed analysis 5% carbs. I now know that there's no way that Sensitivity is only 5% with all that rice. The rice is whole and startchy in the can and when I saw the food the first time, I mentioned it to the vet but she didn't seem too concerned because she also was under the impression that it was a 5%carb diet. The diet certainly explains the need for more and more insulin over the last three months. Pixie kept going up and down - his pancreatitis would flare up and I'd treat that with meds and then he'd feel better. As soon as he'd feel better, he would eat more and the numbers would jump. Every time I submitted a glucose curve to the vet, the numbers indicated that Pixie needed more insulin because I only did glucose curves when Pixie was eating well. A vicious cycle and I hope the damage isn't irreparable.

It's amazing how fast time flies when you're having to check numbers and feed and everything else.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +2.75=56, +3.5=58

It is possible he needed insulin because of the higher carb food. I'm sorry the vet didn't know what she was talking about. Isn't that frustrating?!

If you want Pixie to earn his reductions, I think, you'll have to let him dip below 50. I'll let a more experienced advice giver weigh in on dosing though.

Until he hits that 50, I'm not sure you need to intervene with HC because it will keep him from earning a reduction.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +3.5=58, +4=56

Morning Anne. Looks like Pixie has something to say.
You do want him to get a 49 to earn a dose reduction..... but todays cycle is great. Lots of healing time in greens....
He doesn't have to go any lower than 49 ( protocol says below 50) and then you can steer him right back up with a higher carb food.
So as you gain more confidence , you really want to just give him his normal low carb to give him the chance to earn his reduction.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +3.5=58, +4=56

Great job today, Anne, with Shelly, Suzanne, and Rhiannon helping.

I agree with Suzanne that I'd just make the meter switch and be done with it. I had the same issue when I switched meters but I made myself go cold turkey :lol: it's very hard if you have come to trust a certain meter but it will save your sanity.

One note is that the 20% variance applies to the meter you are using and not between meters. For the AT and human meters, the range can be a difference of 30-40%. It is interesting that in the latest paper by Roomp/Rand, they discuss that at the lower end readings, the difference is approximately 18 mg/dL with AT being higher. So you got 56 twice on the Accu Check and a 70 and 65 on the AT. This is where you just figure there is always going to be some variation in percentages and in the actual numbers from what we think could occur.

Someone might have already explained this but you can never use the guaranteed analysis to know what percentages of fat, protein, carbs, fiber, etc are in a food. You have to get the as-fed or dry matter basis numbers from the manufacturer and then even those have to be converted to % calories from each category. So without those as-fed or DMB numbers, there is no way to tell exactly what the %calories from carbs is. I actually looked at one food that the manufacturer said in an email to me that the GA was 3% minimum carbs. When he finally give me the as-feds and I calculated it, the % calories from carbs was 20%.

If you can get him to eat a little more regularly, I'd try to feed him a portion at AMPS, +1, +2, and +3 if possible so instead of getting one or two meals, he would get three or four mini meals. Sometimes that helps with diving but it might not occur overnight. And I would definitely go with a food in the 4-5% range on carbs if he will eat it.

I'd also leave the dose for now if he stays above 50. This might be a good dose for him. Time will tell. :-D
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +4=56, +5=67

This last number at +5=67 reflects a gravy dose I gave him at +4. I had already fed him the gravy before I read the post indicating I should stop HC. Pixie hasn't had anything at all since +4. I think a great deal of what we're seeing is because he is eating so little. I've been writing down what Pixie is eating and it's about 1.5 oz of LC early in the day, before +2, and about 1.5 oz of mixed MC and LC at about +2.5, plus 3.5 tsp of gravy (I'm guessing here about whether it's a tsp or not but at least it's consistent).

What I'm noticing with Pixie is that he seems unwell when he hits the 56 range and then, a little bit better when he's back up closer to the 80s. I will continue to monitor this as I noticed the same thing yesterday. It takes him a while to bounce back if he's come close or hits the bottom range. He exhibits the same signs as when he hit the high numbers. His body seems to need time to recover from the low or high numbers before he starts to feel like eating again. The first thing I usually notice when he's recovering is that he moves away from the water bowl and stretches out on his bed to sleep.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +2=77, +2.5=56, +4=56, +5=67

Pixie is probably having a little adjustment period from being in high numbers to suddenly being in blues and greens.
We don't know how long he had diabetes before he was diagnosed. My observation is that it doesn't happen overnight and it takes a while for
the excess peeing/drinking symptom to present itself.
I say that from my own experience because my cat wasn't peeing a lot and I believe I caught it early in her case.

Keep observing , note taking is great because it helps you see patterns better.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +8=77

Pixie is holding his own and his numbers are going up in nice curve as they should be -this is promising. He's eaten almost 2 ozs of LC since +6 and I have started weighing his food so I know exactly how much he's eaten. I'm a little concerned he isn't getting enough calories but this will help me determine how much he actually needs. :smile:
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie AMPS=126, +8=77

Rhiannon is correct about how they feel when they first get into normal numbers. Their bodies get used to those high numbers when we first start giving them insulin. So when they start getting normal numbers, they have to adjust. This happened with Gracie; after she was getting insulin, she seemed to feel great in yellow numbers and sleep in green ones but she adjusted and it didn't take long before she was her usual playful self in blue and green numbers.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie PMPS=85, +1=101

Good evening, paws crossed that we have an uneventful evening. I cheated a bit before I gave Pixie his 1.25u by feeding him a half and half mixture of LC and MC food. He ate 0.8 oz of the mixture and 1.2 oz of LC food. His appetite has definitely improved.
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie PMPS=85, +1=101, +2=92

just wanted to check in on you guys tonight. Looks like you've had an absolutely perfect blood sugar day! As Pixie gets used to being under 100, i suspect the lethargy you're seeing will disappear. I've thought that it must be a little bit like me and my caffeine - non-caffeinated is the natural state, but i'm used to caffeine every day and when it disappears, i feel yucky and exhausted. it might be the same with the sugar in the blood.

Everything's looking SUPER! Keep it up!
 
Re: 5/15 Pixie PMPS=85, +1=101, +2=92

What a great day today for Pixie! Well done Anne. :-D When cats start lower you will often get a very flat cycle, paws crossed that's what Pixie has in mind for tonight.

Neko was originally happy in low 300s and over time felt better in lower numbers and now feels icky in pinks.
 
I can't seem to consistently post a message online but I am keeping up with the spreadsheet. Pixie is going lower and I will continue to monitor as I'm not sure how low he'll go. He hasn't had any mc since PMPS but he has been eating a little more LC food. So far, no HC, gravy or Karo but that might change.
 
Hi Anne! Looks like the 63 is your last test. What a great day for Pixie! I wanted to share Davidson's spreadsheet with you so you can see what it looks like when a cat is at the right dose and the person begins shooting low. Look at Feb 3-9th on davidson's ss - you can see that Shawna began shooting lower numbers, and instead of a dive, D began to have a flat cycle. This looks very similar to what you've got going on with Pixie.

She just kept testing, as you are doing, to catch him going under 50. Each time he went under 50 he got a dose reduction. He also got a dose reduction if he stayed in normal numbers for a week (under 120 for 7 days). I thought it might be helpful to you to see what the process looks like. You've got Pixie switched to low carb food now, and you're at a good dose, so we'll just go cycle by cycle and see how he does.

From the Tight Regulation Protocol guidelines: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
Click to expand...
 
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