5/14: Chuck (OTJ) 279 @ 4 pm Central

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Chuck and Susan

Chuck and Susan

Member Since 2010
I really don't know what to do next! The vet is sure he'll come down, but he seems to be trending up...started on 5/11 @ 268, then it's been 302, 299, 202, 140, 211, 266, 270, 256, 281, and the big number this morning. My vet only has hours until noon today - should I call and get a script for Lantus? Or do I just ride out these numbers for the weekend?

Chuck seems to be Ok WC-wise, although he still seems droopy. Eating well, regular litter box, but just seems off. I know the kitten (ok, he's almost 3 now) went through a droopy stage last year, and we think he was tagged by a scorpion, as we found them in the house shortly after he was drooping. We have pest control out regularly and I haven't seen any in the house since.

I feel like I've "killed" Chuck... Needless to say, I'm not sleeping well, have been up since 4:30 this morning.
 
Re: Chuck at 307 this a.m.

Susan.....I would probably be pushing for Lantus NOW. If you look at Zoe's SS, we had a few weeks of increasing numbers and she was diagnosed with pancreatitis and then we started back on insulin because her numbers wouldn't come down.....307 is pretty high. With his sugar so high, he probably doesn't feel very good. Good Luck...and keep us posted.
 
Re: Chuck at 307 this a.m.

Good morning guys .. I'm sorry that chuck is not feeling well .. if you think he needs insulin, push for that like Sherry said .. if your vet won't give you the 'script someone on here might be able to donate a pen or two? I really hope he did not get bit by a scorpion .. hang in there guys ...
 
Re: Chuck at 307 this a.m.

Good morning Susan!

Sorry to hear you've been up since 4:30am.

I strongly agree with Sherry. If it keeps going up, you don't want to risk DKA.

Also when you have a chance, I encourage you to put together a spreadsheet and link it to your signature. It helps the experts (who I'm certainly not claiming to be one) see when those readings took place. Right now we can't tell if they were taken 15 minutes apart or an hour apart, before or after meals, etc.

Here's the link on how to do it.

Finally, I would ask the vet why he/she thinks Chuck's numbers will be coming down. Your vet might have another reason why they're thinking that way.

Good luck!
Bonnie
 
Re: Chuck at 307 this a.m.

One other thing -- I would change your subject line to flag the experts' attention. There are alot of cats at that level so the way I saw your thread was that nothing is going on.

We all open only one thread a day (called condo) to keep the conversation organized for each cat. So if I were you, I'd do something like, 5/14 Chuck 307 - Should I get Lantus? That way it'll get the experts' attention.

Good luck!!!
Bonnie
 
Re: Chuck at 307 this a.m.

i know you said earlier that the vet wanted to delay - do you understand clearly with the reason why he wants to wait on the insulin? and do you agree with that reason?
 
Re: 5/14: Chuck (OTJ) @ 307 this a.m. - push for Lantus now?

Let me see if I can address/answer questions...

The vet (both of them I've talked with, Smith and Bennett) think the high numbers are due to the dry food I fed 5/9 (p.m.), 5/10, and 5/11 (a.m.). He was still getting FF during that time, and probably ate less than a cup of the dry. Purina Pro Plan Senior 11+, vet recommendation to possibly bring BUN down or at least keep it from going higher (currently at 38).

I had him in to see the vet yesterday and he (Bennett, also owner) feels the higher numbers and suddeness of them are due to the dry food. When I tested Chuck 5/1, he was at 87; on 5/11, he was at 268 (first test). We spent probably 1 1/2 hours with the vet; drew blood from vein in leg and tested for (primarily) phosphorus as we were discussing adding a phosphorus binder. Phosphorus is good, BG was 242 at that time.

I talked with Smith this morning for probably 30 minutes, discussing what to do. I stressed Chuck's age (16), his remission time (3 years) and that I was comfortable starting him on insulin over the weekend. He still feels that 307 short-term isn't a huge concern -- he'd be more concerned if Chuck was in the 200-300's for a longer period of time (weeks instead of days). I can push for the Lantus script if necessary. This vet is on call this weekend and encouraged me to call him at any time (other than church tomorrow) -- he's OK with Lantus, but really wants to wait until Monday to see if Chuck can bring this down on his own. And, if Chuck is still high on Monday, he'll write the script for the Lantus. Short term high numbers shouldn't cause any lasting effects, according to the vet.

I understand why he wants to wait, to give Chuck a chance to pull the numbers down on his own. Do I agree? Yes and no. I agree because I'd rather Chuck handle the higher numbers on his own and not have to go back on insulin, even though I know it would only be for a short time. I don't agree because I don't like to see him "moping" around... I also know Lantus is expensive and that I'd likely only dose him a few times (and very low doses at that), but it's not about the cost.

Again, the WC report is positive -- eating well (not acting starved), litter box normal, water intake normal; negative ketones. Not as social as usual, but probably due to high BG and not feeling good because of that.

I have a spreadsheet for him, just need to get than linked (hope it works). Because he's been in remission, I only test once a month or if he seems off. Testing is normally done before morning and evening feed, just like if he was on insulin.
 
Re: 5/14: Chuck (OTJ) @ 307 this a.m. - push for Lantus now?

Gee, that's a hard one. Is Chuck real carb sensitive? I know just a little dry food would really spike maggie's bg up! If it were Maggie in that same boat, I would be inclined to wait until Monday and see if her numbers would come down, feeding some low carb Fancy Feast or another brand low carb. On the other hand, what does the Vet say about Chuck being so droopy though! That's a worry for you. I'd call to relieve your mind over the weekend. They did say to call anytime.
 
Re: 5/14: Chuck (OTJ) @ 307 this a.m. - push for Lantus now?

tough decision. we have seen where it takes some kitties around 3 - 4 days to come down after eating dry food. as much as i dislike seeing those high numbers, i kind of agree with your vet. you've caught this early. if we look at this realistically, how many kitties run in diabetic numbers for months before a caregiver receives a diagnosis? a few days in high numbers is not urgent.

chuck is very sensitive to lantus. more sensitive than any kitty i've seen come through here in the last 5 years. "if" the effects of the dry have yet to clear... i'm not sure if adding insulin into the mix right now is the best idea considering how sensitive he is.

however, you mentioned he's acting "droopy". the behavior concerns me if this isn't normal for chuck. as you know, infection + poor appetite + lack of insulin is the recipe for DKA. have you been able to check his urine for ketones? if he throws ketones or shows a decrease in appetite, i wouldn't hesitate to start him on insulin immediately.

given these circumstances which are unique to chuck, if i were in your shoes i think i would get the script from your vet. if his behavior gets worse, numbers remain high, and/or if he throws ketones you'd have the script in hand and could go fill it right away.

fwiw, just my thoughts...
 
Re: 5/14: Chuck (OTJ) @ 307 this a.m. - push for Lantus now?

Carb sensitive -- don't know about that, as once he was diagnosed and I found this board, I went to the low carb FF and that's what he's had since. I try to keep the food at 5 or less carb % on Janet and Binky's chart. So, maybe he is carb sensitive, thanks, once again, to me (that's 3 strikes -- 1-dry food, 2-forget to look at WC, 3-don't know if he's carb sensitive)

Droopy -- Well, Mr. Chuck is throwing me all kinds of surprises today. This morning, he was droopy and unsociable, hiding out in the closet, under the bed, etc. In the last couple of hours, he's been out and about, eating, wanting attention from me, and is now in the window next to my computer desk, enjoying the fresh air. I'm guessing, without actually testing, that's his BG is coming down somewhat because he's perkier. I'll test before "supper," around 4:30 Central, and hope for a better number.

Jill, no loss of appetite and no ketones.

If we have to go back to insulin, I just don't want to start with an evening shot, because I don't know how he'll react. I mentioned this to the vet and he agrees, starting in the evening is probably not a good idea.
 
Re: 5/14: Chuck (OTJ) @ 307 this a.m. - push for Lantus now?

sounds like chuck may have been tired this morning! :lol:
no ketones and healthy appetite --- yaaaaaay!!!
i agree with you about not starting insulin at night unless you're prepared to monitor all night long. let's hope his numbers are lower at his next test.
 
Ok, he's come down some. Maybe I'm just not patient enough. After I tested, he ate about as much as he usually does, and is currently sitting in the window, taking an after dinner bath. Wait, now he wants attention, so I'm having to try to type one-handed. Now, he's back to the window...

I'm definitely happier with this number than the one from this morning. I guess time will tell if he can hold it or not.
 
Hoping to see some better numbers for Chuck. His kidney numbers looked pretty good to me...BUN up a bit but not worrisome. Good luck...will be watching.
 
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