5/13/17 Sprocket, Amps/68,+12/56,+12.9/69.+13.9/79.+17.5/103,+19.75/157.PMPS/436.+2.75/351

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

oh....
and if the vet does suspect pancreatitis?
you want something for pain like bupenorphine. It's cheapest from www.diamondbackdrugs.com
you don't have to give 0.3 ml .... sometimes even just 0.1 ml is plenty. It was for Shadow. It can knock the edge off and help him focus on eating.

I know you have some assistance but you can get 10 mL from diamondback for $42....
where my vet used to give me pre-drawn syringes at a high dollar amount.....like over $100 .

so if the vet could fax in a prescription to diamondback and just give you enough for 5 days....
they deliver fast.... usually in 3 days..... it would save dcin some money to spend elsewhere for him.

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

maybe ask her to give a cerenia shot ....help with the inappetence and the nausea.

see if she has any iams max cal. Some vets still have some in stock.

glad he ate the super supper.....
i would also still get a couple more friskies cans that I said earlier. They are 50 cents each usually so just having 2 should be helpful to see if he
likes the change.

What is iams max cal?

I do have some friskies at home. Pate and a couple shredded with sauce.
And many that still need carb counts that i think are medium carb.

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

oh....
and if the vet does suspect pancreatitis?
you want something for pain like bupenorphine. It's cheapest from www.diamondbackdrugs.com
you don't have to give 0.3 ml .... sometimes even just 0.1 ml is plenty. It was for Shadow. It can knock the edge off and help him focus on eating.

I know you have some assistance but you can get 10 mL from diamondback for $42....
where my vet used to give me pre-drawn syringes at a high dollar amount.....like over $100 .

so if the vet could fax in a prescription to diamondback and just give you enough for 5 days....
they deliver fast.... usually in 3 days..... it would save dcin some money to spend elsewhere for him.

Thanks.
I do have some buprenex from last march if need be.
He had the pancreas test before n negative. But that test needs fasting for like 12 hrs or more.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

If not he may end up at er vet if he gets worse.

Got appt at 410. Blood work to see whats going on.
Something is off and its not because he is lower bg.

Ducia used to look as if at her last breath when she was getting low BG at first. I paniced like hell. Serious - like on her death bed, poor soul.
I think fact that he eats is very good sign.
How off is he in addition to appear grumpy?
Any signs of pain?

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

okay. try them. friskies is on the chart I gave you so you can see it.

Iams max cal is a higher calorie canned food for cats that aren't eating. It's only given by prescription and they quit making it but many vets do have some in stock.



and pancreatitis can get missed ....
and it can change at any time.....

have they ever done an ultrasound on him? See if he has any abnormal growths any where?

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Iams MaxCal is a high calorie food that is used with kitties that aren't getting enough calories. The bad news is that it's been discontinued (I have no idea why - I know lots of people that swear by it). Some vets might still have some. Another option is Hill's a/d, but it's no where near as high calorie as the MaxCal. Royal Canin Recovery is another good one - it's 7% carbs. Hill's a/d is 12% and MaxCal is 9%

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

kitties that aren't getting enough calories.

I admit I am lost in food count badly here.
Did I get that Sprocket ate about 5.5oz by his +6 wrongly?
I thought it was daily "average" amount for many.
Or is the fact that he voluntarily avoids overeating alarming enough?

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

okay. try them. friskies is on the chart I gave you so you can see it.

Iams max cal is a higher calorie canned food for cats that aren't eating. It's only given by prescription and they quit making it but many vets do have some in stock.



and pancreatitis can get missed ....
and it can change at any time.....

have they ever done an ultrasound on him? See if he has any abnormal growths any where?

He did have ultrasound march 8th. Bile ducts, liver, gallbladder area inflammed but everything ok. No growths.

Wish pancreatitis test was easier.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Or is the fact that he voluntarily avoids overeating alarming enough?

No. But with a cat that has a history of DKA, you need to be sure they are getting at least their daily requirement. So if a cat is eating less volume, you need to increase the calorie content.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

a cat that has a history of DKA, you need to be sure they are getting at least their daily requirement.

That is what I am confused about - what is daily requirement?
Is that number based on the optimal weight?
Two vets Ducia has seeing and Dr. Lisa blog says that indoor cats maintain their weight on around 200Kcal/24h. It is 1.5 of 5.5 oz Friskie or 2 cans 2.8oz Tiki.
I might be wrong by the 450 daily Kcal is to gain weight, not to maintain it. Hence the need to increase the insulin dose with that much daily Kcal.
I am totally lost.
I am glad vet is available.
@manxcat419
Someone I think had the same question I believe Sprocket has been eating 14.5-15.5 oz of food a day IIRC which equals around 450 Kcal which he's probably needed from running higher plus post DKA. With his number dropping, and he'd already had about as much food, if not more, as most cats get in the day, how likely is it that he just doesn't feel he needs any more food right now with his body better able to use what he is eating?

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

That is what I am confused about - what is daily requirement?

It varies depending on what their optimal weight is. You need a different amount to maintain your weight than I do, etc. Those examples are just a general estimate, adjustable for each cat's specific situation.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

You need a different amount to maintain your weight than I do, etc. Those examples are just a general estimate, adjustable for each cat's specific situation.

Right. Darnell said once that Sprocket is to be 12 lb. Currently he is 15 lb.
He eats half a thousand calories/day and needs constant dose increases which sent Darnell anxieties thru the roof in anticipation of drops on larger doses.
Does it explain my confusion? I really wish I feel comfortable settling it all in my head but something that I cannot point out seems wrong.

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

Ok. Of course Sprocket acts normal at vets. All active. Said he looks good. Heart is good.
May need more fiber to help with nausea.
Took blood and urine. All bloodwork being sent out. Full panel.
Urine C&S in house to see if anything grows.
Says he is very regulated.
Weight is 15.5lbs.

Now. What dose do I give Sprocket now that he is eating less food.???
He has only had 5.5oz today so far
@Meya14 @Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey @Jill & Alex (GA) @Gill & George @Chris & China @Nan & Amber[/USEr

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

What dose do I give Sprocket now that he is eating less food.

He has earned a reduction from yesterday's and this morning's greens, so I would give 3.25. For dosing, it's not as important how much he eats as that he eats at all during the first couple hours after the shot. You want him to have some food onboard at onset. It's hard to say how much is enough - I think ECID. As long as my cats had eaten a couple of tablespoons of food, I didn't worry in regards to the insulin. Obviously, regarding the DKA you want them to eat more, but it doesn't have to all be before onset. Does that make sense? In other words, if he is eating when you are ready to shoot, it should be safe.

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

@Bobbie And Bubba . @rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Sorry tired. Forgot to tag ya

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

Ugg..quiet day on board.

Did 3.25u. At 650pm. Hope it works good.
His bg was also only coming home from vet for only 40 mins so some could be stress.

Ss updated now

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

yes. 5.5 oz is all my cat gets for a whole day.... so it sounds like he's beginning to be "normal"

If he heads down again, you should at least try to take 'cat naps' between the tests.....

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Rather than tagging a bunch of people, it is more efficient to change you subjext line to add a question mark and add a few words describing the question. The Dose? You did is good. But, once you have the question answered, remove the ? from your subject line. If you always have the question mark up, people will assume you have gotten an answer and just forgot to remove it.

 

[manxcat419]

Right. Darnell said once that Sprocket is to be 12 lb. Currently he is 15 lb.
He eats half a thousand calories/day and needs constant dose increases which sent Darnell anxieties thru the roof in anticipation of drops on larger doses.
Does it explain my confusion? I really wish I feel comfortable settling it all in my head but something that I cannot point out seems wrong.

General information seems to suggest around 20 calories per lb of ideal weight per day for an indoor cat. Obviously that has to vary a little depending on whether an individual cat gains, loses, or maintains weight on that amount. But that would suggest that to maintain a 15 lb weight, Sprocket would need to eat around 300 calories per day. If he is meant to be 12 lb then he would need around 240 calories per day. I share your concern that 450 calories is significantly more than is needed - it's way more than I believe most of us feed to have our cats maintain a healthy weight. I have 2 cats with insanely high calorie requirements - Regan because she has health issues and seems to burn calories as fast as I can get them into her and actually needs to gain weight, and Licorice because she's young, crazy and never still. And it's still around 1 1/2 times what I feed for either of them.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

This is from my notes (from someone here, maybe Karen)

For maintaining weight:
The cat's weight times 13 and add 70. So a 11.5 lb cat X 13=149.5 +70=219.5 calories/day

 

[Meya14]

Yeah, if I recall, you had said that he was eating a lot -PRIOR- to the DKA. With unregulated diabetes, you expect that he is unable to use all those calories but the intake should decrease somewhat once regulated. This doesn't mean that he is actually utilizing less calories though. Think of it this way, if he's currently eating 250, and able to use all 250 for his energy needs compared to when he was unregulated he may have been intaking 450, then urinating out 200 of them and still only using 250 calories overall.

Since he is eating less, and also because you've taken a reduction, make sure you get daily ketones tests.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

I share your concern that 450 calories is significantly more than is needed - it's way more than I believe most of us feed to have our cats maintain a healthy weight

I was over feeding. Not by a lot but once I cut back (on the food) Gizmo's appy, when he should eat, was greatly improved.

 

[manxcat419]

This is from my notes (from someone here, maybe Karen)

For maintaining weight:
The cat's weight times 13 and add 70. So a 11.5 lb cat X 13=149.5 +70=219.5 calories/day

That comes out just a little bit lower than the 20 cals per lb for a cat over 10 lb and a little more for a cat that's under 10lb. But it does finish up with similar numbers and is probably more accurate as it seems to include 70 as a basal amount.

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

Rather than tagging a bunch of people, it is more efficient to change you subjext line to add a question mark and add a few words describing the question. The Dose? You did is good. But, once you have the question answered, remove the ? from your subject line. If you always have the question mark up, people will assume you have gotten an answer and just forgot to remove it.

Actually i did forget to change it. Sorry.
Posting all over...lol. people, ss, here.
I forget to update one or other.
Thanks for looking. I forget names easily. I should make a list of everyone that has helped.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

you're sleep deprived. It's easy to lose track of it all. There is just so much.....
and then you have all of us chiming in......
the old saying.... too many cooks in the kitchen......

but this is how we all learn...... with the help of others....

 

[Darnell & Sprocket (GA)]

Yeah, if I recall, you had said that he was eating a lot -PRIOR- to the DKA. With unregulated diabetes, you expect that he is unable to use all those calories but the intake should decrease somewhat once regulated. This doesn't mean that he is actually utilizing less calories though. Think of it this way, if he's currently eating 250, and able to use all 250 for his energy needs compared to when he was unregulated he may have been intaking 450, then urinating out 200 of them and still only using 250 calories overall.

Since he is eating less, and also because you've taken a reduction, make sure you get daily ketones tests.

Not sure if I completely understand this. Maybe cause so tired. I will read again tomorrow.

Someone else feel free to word differently...maybe it will click.

@rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Very sleep deprived.
Many cooks here but all needed and appreciated!!!
Just need a list to remember everyone.
I impressed a vet with my info and written food journal and bg list.
Plus said best regulated bgs he has seen.

I said cause I got a group helping me!

 

[manxcat419]

Someone else feel free to word differently...maybe it will click.

I can try...When his numbers are high most of the time, he doesn't have enough insulin (both his own and added) to get the glucose out of his blood and into his cells where it's needed for nutrition and energy. So, no matter how much he eats, his cells are starving. And they send messages to his brain to tell him he's hungry - even if he's already eaten a lot. As his glucose comes more under control, he can use the energy from his food properly. So instead of it sitting around in his blood, to eventually be removed by his kidneys and peed out, the food is getting to his cells where it needs to be. So his cells aren't starving any more and tell his brain that they have enough energy (and therefore enough food). So he is less hungry and less inclined to overeat. It isn't that his overall calorie needs have really changed. Just that instead of losing a lot of those calories because his body can't get to them, he's using all the calories he eats instead of only part of them. The 450 calories is more than he needs - but if he was only able to get 200 calories into his cells by eating 450, then he'd have to eat 450. Now he can use all the calories, he only needs to eat 200 to get 200 that he can use.