nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Yeah, I know, he's bouncing from the 38 last night. Wish I could stop it.
5/12 Lucian PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103,+6/94,+7/122
- Thread starter nckitties3
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Scratchie'smom
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI
Morning Deb, hope he comes down for you soon. 38?? Wow.
Have a great day dear and HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!
Morning Deb, hope he comes down for you soon. 38?? Wow.
Have a great day dear and HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335
I held his dose through the bounce, when should I reduce his dose after his 38 or less last night?
I realize the board will be very slow, being Mother's day, I'm hoping someone with experience will chime in before I have to give him his shot tonight at 8 pm EDT. I don't know what to do about the dose.
I held his dose through the bounce, when should I reduce his dose after his 38 or less last night?
I realize the board will be very slow, being Mother's day, I'm hoping someone with experience will chime in before I have to give him his shot tonight at 8 pm EDT. I don't know what to do about the dose.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335,10.25/330
I understand, but Lucian's HIGH and other cat's high are nowhere near the same.
Sienne feels I should take him back to 1.75 tonight and that I didn't hold it long enough. It's hard to know what to do when you get differing opinions.
I agree, with both of you, I think I should drop him to 1.75 also, my concern is that it didn't work last time in 5 cycles....should I have waited another couple cycles? Normally I do, but was told to take him back since it didn't seem to be holding. I am so dammmmmed confused and don't know what to do. I want to do what's best for him and 600+ is NOT it.
My Stress Meter is Red Lining!!
I understand, but Lucian's HIGH and other cat's high are nowhere near the same.
Sienne feels I should take him back to 1.75 tonight and that I didn't hold it long enough. It's hard to know what to do when you get differing opinions.
I agree, with both of you, I think I should drop him to 1.75 also, my concern is that it didn't work last time in 5 cycles....should I have waited another couple cycles? Normally I do, but was told to take him back since it didn't seem to be holding. I am so dammmmmed confused and don't know what to do. I want to do what's best for him and 600+ is NOT it.
My Stress Meter is Red Lining!!
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335,10.25/330
I realize this is after the fact, but I think you did the right thing by dropping the dose to 1.75u tonght tonight. When a kitty drops into the 30s it's an indication a reduction is necessary, if not mandatory in most cases.
Reductions do NOT require settling time. To understand the chain of events leading up to today you have to go back as far as 4/30. Sienne may have not recognized a failed reduction because of the 97 on 5/8. What many miss or forget to look at is that 97 had some residual action left on it from the depot of the 2u fat dose (5/6 - AM cycle) as well as the 2u dose (5/6 - PM cycle). 110 was the lowest Lucian dropped on the next day following that 97 on the 1.75u dose after 5 cycles.
The rapid reductions beginning on 5/3 all played into the numbers (including nadirs) trending higher. When numbers trend higher after a reduction(s)... the reduction has failed.
There are options:
Just some thoughts... questions?
I agree with BJ... and I'm not conservative when it comes to dosing. :mrgreen:nckitties3 said:
I realize this is after the fact, but I think you did the right thing by dropping the dose to 1.75u tonght tonight. When a kitty drops into the 30s it's an indication a reduction is necessary, if not mandatory in most cases.
Yes, it is difficult to know what to do when you're receiving differing opinions.nckitties3 said:
Reductions do NOT require settling time. To understand the chain of events leading up to today you have to go back as far as 4/30. Sienne may have not recognized a failed reduction because of the 97 on 5/8. What many miss or forget to look at is that 97 had some residual action left on it from the depot of the 2u fat dose (5/6 - AM cycle) as well as the 2u dose (5/6 - PM cycle). 110 was the lowest Lucian dropped on the next day following that 97 on the 1.75u dose after 5 cycles.
The rapid reductions beginning on 5/3 all played into the numbers (including nadirs) trending higher. When numbers trend higher after a reduction(s)... the reduction has failed.
Lucian is a very bouncy kitty. When the "normal" guidelines don't work for bouncy kitties, we have to look for solutions that will work for the individual cat.nckitties3 said:
There are options:
- Some caregivers DO "shoot through the bounce" for more than one cycle before taking the reduction because they've found they have to. One can only do this or would want to do this is if they're very confident kitty will bounce to the moon and the bounce will last for more than a couple of cycles.
- A technique used by many caregivers who have extremely bouncy kitties is to use food to manage the curve. There's a couple of ways to do this. One way is to front load the cycle with food. In other words, divide up the preshot meal into 3 or 4 mini-meals to be fed prior to nadir. This method serves to slow things down in the beginning of the cycle which will then cause nadirs to run a little higher than they would if kitty were fed a regular sized meal at shot time. This will allow you to safely get & keep more insulin into the cat. More insulin will help pull down the numbers on either side of nadirs and will help squish bounces.
Another way to use food to help manage the curve is to feed immediately prior to nadir to prevent a reduction. This allows you to get more insulin into the cat. Example: 5/11 PM cycle -- "if" you happened to catch or had any idea Lucian was headed for a drop/low nadir, you'd feed before he dropped low to prevent him from earning a reduction. The results are the same as described above.
- Some caregivers of bouncy kitties incorporate the use of a bolus insulin such as R or N to compliment the use of the basal insulin. Most choose R because it's in and out of kitty's system in 4 - 5 hours. Both R and N are powerful insulins that should be used with care and preferably guidance.
Just some thoughts... questions?
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355
When I was working with Spitzer, I did use R, very cautiously, to hold down the cycle ends a bit. I'd give 0.25 units about +10 to cross the last 2 hours of 1 cycle and the 1st 2 hours of the next. This did seem to help. Due to his variable appetite, I needed a non-depot insulin so that if he didn't eat, I could skip the R, and not worry about carryover from too much Lantus.
When I was working with Spitzer, I did use R, very cautiously, to hold down the cycle ends a bit. I'd give 0.25 units about +10 to cross the last 2 hours of 1 cycle and the 1st 2 hours of the next. This did seem to help. Due to his variable appetite, I needed a non-depot insulin so that if he didn't eat, I could skip the R, and not worry about carryover from too much Lantus.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355
Just a word of caution... what works for one cat may not be the solution for another kitty. Things like onset, nadir, & duration of the basal insulin have to be considered before deciding when to shoot a bolus insulin. Then it's important to learn onset, nadir, and duration of the bolus. You don't want nadirs to overlap and personally, I don't like to see the nadir of the bolus coincide with onset of the basal insulin either.
Yep. Whatever works for the individual cat.BJM said:
Just a word of caution... what works for one cat may not be the solution for another kitty. Things like onset, nadir, & duration of the basal insulin have to be considered before deciding when to shoot a bolus insulin. Then it's important to learn onset, nadir, and duration of the bolus. You don't want nadirs to overlap and personally, I don't like to see the nadir of the bolus coincide with onset of the basal insulin either.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355
I think I understand using food, although he is ready to eat at shot time and if I only give him a tiny bit, from dividing up his meals, he'll throw a fit until he gets more. I mean WHEN he's ready to eat, he's hungry. The last couple nights, he hasn't eaten at shot time, but 2 hrs later.
I know how to use food to get him to coast thru the nadir, have done that before in hopes that he wouldn't bounce so high later, but it didn't help then. I don't understand why you wouldn't want them to get their reduction. I thought the whole idea was to get them OTJ entirely or down to a very small dose that keeps them in a safe area, in numbers. I'm sure there is a reason to not want them to earn a reduction, I just don't understand what it is. I thought you 'steered' them to prevent hypo or to try to keep them from the extreme bounces that some cats do, like Lucian, whenever they get low. I'm feeling really dense.
So, after a reduction, they still have residual effect for...........2 cycles? 3? After those residual cycles he should go back to 50? how long do I wait and what am I looking for, to know if I need to take him back? There are things that 'you', those with experienced eyes, are seeing that I do not see. When I saw the 97, I thought the lowered dose was working and the numbers would get better with it. Should that 97 have been lower to show that it was a good reduction? Should I have taken him back up at that PM? Am I understanding it right?. I thought I was supposed to wait, so I inquired and was told to take him back to 2.0. and in the 5th cycle, he dropped to 38 and went sky high in a couple hrs. I really didn't know how to handle that this morning, hold or reduce, but the fact that he DOES go so high is the reason I held and waited to see what others thought.
Trying to preload before nadir with him is damned near impossible. I don't think he has ever nadir 'ed at the same time twice in a row, ever. I'd be happy if it was anywhere between +5 - +7, but that's not the case, he's all over the place. Thinks he's a Lev kitty half the time.
5/11 PM cycle. Normally, he is tested at +3 or +4. It just was a stroke of bad luck, I was very sick and didn't test him at his normal time. I feel bad for that, because I would have had a hold on it and he would have never gotten that low. I would never allow him to get that low. I knew there was a chance of him dropping because of his PMPS, but I was unable to take care of it at the time. You can see on his SS, I WILL stay up half the night and care for him, done it before. I just wasn't able last night and I hate that, it could have been a disaster. I'm just glad I caught it when I did.
I need definitive, how long do I hold a reduced dose (how many cycles are residual)? We'll use 2 for sake of argument:
Reduced dose for 2 cycles. If nadir is above ##, increase him back in 3rd cycle. If nadir is below ## hold dose for (how many cycles?) X cycles.
Do you understand what I mean? It would be like this:
Reduce dose for 2 cycles. If nadir in the 2nd cycle, is above 90, increase him back in 3rd cycle. If nadir is below 60, hold dose for min 3-5 cycles.
If I had a time frame and number to go by, then I'd know what to do and wouldn't have to keep asking and getting varying information, ya know? It is so frustrating.
Bless you for being so patient with me! :YMHUG:
I think I understand using food, although he is ready to eat at shot time and if I only give him a tiny bit, from dividing up his meals, he'll throw a fit until he gets more. I mean WHEN he's ready to eat, he's hungry. The last couple nights, he hasn't eaten at shot time, but 2 hrs later.
I know how to use food to get him to coast thru the nadir, have done that before in hopes that he wouldn't bounce so high later, but it didn't help then. I don't understand why you wouldn't want them to get their reduction. I thought the whole idea was to get them OTJ entirely or down to a very small dose that keeps them in a safe area, in numbers. I'm sure there is a reason to not want them to earn a reduction, I just don't understand what it is. I thought you 'steered' them to prevent hypo or to try to keep them from the extreme bounces that some cats do, like Lucian, whenever they get low. I'm feeling really dense.
So, after a reduction, they still have residual effect for...........2 cycles? 3? After those residual cycles he should go back to 50? how long do I wait and what am I looking for, to know if I need to take him back? There are things that 'you', those with experienced eyes, are seeing that I do not see. When I saw the 97, I thought the lowered dose was working and the numbers would get better with it. Should that 97 have been lower to show that it was a good reduction? Should I have taken him back up at that PM? Am I understanding it right?. I thought I was supposed to wait, so I inquired and was told to take him back to 2.0. and in the 5th cycle, he dropped to 38 and went sky high in a couple hrs. I really didn't know how to handle that this morning, hold or reduce, but the fact that he DOES go so high is the reason I held and waited to see what others thought.
Trying to preload before nadir with him is damned near impossible. I don't think he has ever nadir 'ed at the same time twice in a row, ever. I'd be happy if it was anywhere between +5 - +7, but that's not the case, he's all over the place. Thinks he's a Lev kitty half the time.
5/11 PM cycle. Normally, he is tested at +3 or +4. It just was a stroke of bad luck, I was very sick and didn't test him at his normal time. I feel bad for that, because I would have had a hold on it and he would have never gotten that low. I would never allow him to get that low. I knew there was a chance of him dropping because of his PMPS, but I was unable to take care of it at the time. You can see on his SS, I WILL stay up half the night and care for him, done it before. I just wasn't able last night and I hate that, it could have been a disaster. I'm just glad I caught it when I did.
I need definitive, how long do I hold a reduced dose (how many cycles are residual)? We'll use 2 for sake of argument:
Reduced dose for 2 cycles. If nadir is above ##, increase him back in 3rd cycle. If nadir is below ## hold dose for (how many cycles?) X cycles.
Do you understand what I mean? It would be like this:
Reduce dose for 2 cycles. If nadir in the 2nd cycle, is above 90, increase him back in 3rd cycle. If nadir is below 60, hold dose for min 3-5 cycles.
If I had a time frame and number to go by, then I'd know what to do and wouldn't have to keep asking and getting varying information, ya know? It is so frustrating.
Bless you for being so patient with me! :YMHUG:
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
Now what do I do? He's dropped to a 106 @ +4.
Which means I'll be up most of the night and that's ok, but dang!
Now what do I do? He's dropped to a 106 @ +4.
Which means I'll be up most of the night and that's ok, but dang!
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
If he were mine, I would slow him down right now. That's quite a drop and he doesn't need to drop much lower than he is now.
I'd feed a couple teaspoons of HC or add a couple of drops of karo to a couple teaspoons of LC and give it to him now.
Sheesh! He's not fooling around. I'm still typing a reply to your other post.nckitties3 said:Now what do I do? He's dropped to a 106 @ +4.
If he were mine, I would slow him down right now. That's quite a drop and he doesn't need to drop much lower than he is now.
I'd feed a couple teaspoons of HC or add a couple of drops of karo to a couple teaspoons of LC and give it to him now.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
and test again at +5.
and test again at +5.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
Yup, anytime he is getting close to 100 @+4, I know he's gonna drop hard. I'm working on the food thing, checking the carbs on 1 particular can. I have very high carb, for hypo, and under 9 for all time, but 1 I'm not sure of, hoping it's a medium. brb
Yup, anytime he is getting close to 100 @+4, I know he's gonna drop hard. I'm working on the food thing, checking the carbs on 1 particular can. I have very high carb, for hypo, and under 9 for all time, but 1 I'm not sure of, hoping it's a medium. brb
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
you can always add 2 drops of karo/syrup to a lower carb food...
you can always add 2 drops of karo/syrup to a lower carb food...
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
Still not sure, but I'm guessing about 15 carbs. The high carb I have is VERY high carb, like 22-23, so I don't want to give him that. That's for emergencies. I gave him 1 tsp of the food and will test in an hour. Nothing new here, done this many times, so I don't get all shook up over it. I have the high carb if need be, but I doubt I'll need it.
Last night, when he hit 38, I gave him his regular food with 2 drops of corn syrup mixed in. I keep a squeeze bottle of it in his hypo kit. He was up 36 points in an hour.
The last thing I want to do is carb load him, he goes way too high, so I'm a little stingy on syrup and HC food.
Of course, now he wants more, not gonna happen boy! :lol:
Still not sure, but I'm guessing about 15 carbs. The high carb I have is VERY high carb, like 22-23, so I don't want to give him that. That's for emergencies. I gave him 1 tsp of the food and will test in an hour. Nothing new here, done this many times, so I don't get all shook up over it. I have the high carb if need be, but I doubt I'll need it.
Last night, when he hit 38, I gave him his regular food with 2 drops of corn syrup mixed in. I keep a squeeze bottle of it in his hypo kit. He was up 36 points in an hour.
The last thing I want to do is carb load him, he goes way too high, so I'm a little stingy on syrup and HC food.
Of course, now he wants more, not gonna happen boy! :lol:
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
Sounds good. You know the routine.
I'm not going anywhere except to test Alex periodically. She's traveling in double digits and I don't want her to drop too low.
Sounds good. You know the routine.
I'm not going anywhere except to test Alex periodically. She's traveling in double digits and I don't want her to drop too low.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
It sure would be easier if I had even a vague idea of his nadir. :YMSIGH:
It sure would be easier if I had even a vague idea of his nadir. :YMSIGH:
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
Yeah, I was just looking at his ss. He does have nadirs all over the place.
I'm hoping that'll change soon...
Yeah, I was just looking at his ss. He does have nadirs all over the place.
I'm hoping that'll change soon...
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106!!
It would certainly simplify matters.
It would certainly simplify matters.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian AMPS HI.+4/565,+8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355
Some reading material for tomorrow...
38. Woot, right? Kitty earned a reduction! When the cycle starts with 300s, dips to low double digits in the middle, and ends with 500s with an extremely bouncy kitty... oftentimes my reaction is "Darn it! Now we have to reduce! When any dose is able to drop kitty into the 30s... we're entering into dangerous territory. Must reduce. Sigh..."
Drop the dose and kitty will ride in "normal" numbers for less hours of the cycle (will lose duration). And then... will a reduced be able to pull kitty down from such high numbers or squish the high numbers typical of a very bouncy kitty? Lantus and Levemir are known to have a harder time bringing high preshot numbers down. I'm not saying the L insulins can't do it, but they have a noticeably harder time pulling high numbers down. If we can keep more insulin into the cat (while keeping him safe by propping up the nadir) we can continue chipping away at those preshot numbers so the L insulins can grab onto them easier. When you can get down to those lower preshot numbers is when you'll eventually see the entire curve flatten out. Both Lantus and Levemir are known for their long flat curves, but it takes awhile to get there.
So what if you could prop up the middle of the cycle with food so kitty would not earn a reduction? You could actually keep more insulin into the cat (not have to reduce). Heck, you *might* even be able to increase the dose in order to pull the whole cycle's numbers down and squish those bounces. The goal is to bring kitty into normal numbers and keep them there for as many hours as possible each cycle. That's when healing takes place. We administer exogenous insulin to take the place of a working pancreas. Taking the burden off the pancreas allows it to rest and heal.
Rapid reductions seem to work well for kitties within the first few months of diagnosis. They seem to be able to drop into normal numbers occasionally and then work themselves down the dosing scale quickly. Get beyond that and then you have to really work at showing them normal numbers (healing time). Bouncy kitties and kitties who experience horrific food spikes present more of a challenge than other diabetic kitties. That's why we sometimes like to prevent reductions with bouncy kitties & food spikers.
Some reading material for tomorrow...
Haha! Guess we know who's the boss! I can identify. I have the distinguished honor of being the "timed feeder" for one of my civvies! :lol:nckitties3 said:
nckitties3 said:
38. Woot, right? Kitty earned a reduction! When the cycle starts with 300s, dips to low double digits in the middle, and ends with 500s with an extremely bouncy kitty... oftentimes my reaction is "Darn it! Now we have to reduce! When any dose is able to drop kitty into the 30s... we're entering into dangerous territory. Must reduce. Sigh..."
Drop the dose and kitty will ride in "normal" numbers for less hours of the cycle (will lose duration). And then... will a reduced be able to pull kitty down from such high numbers or squish the high numbers typical of a very bouncy kitty? Lantus and Levemir are known to have a harder time bringing high preshot numbers down. I'm not saying the L insulins can't do it, but they have a noticeably harder time pulling high numbers down. If we can keep more insulin into the cat (while keeping him safe by propping up the nadir) we can continue chipping away at those preshot numbers so the L insulins can grab onto them easier. When you can get down to those lower preshot numbers is when you'll eventually see the entire curve flatten out. Both Lantus and Levemir are known for their long flat curves, but it takes awhile to get there.
So what if you could prop up the middle of the cycle with food so kitty would not earn a reduction? You could actually keep more insulin into the cat (not have to reduce). Heck, you *might* even be able to increase the dose in order to pull the whole cycle's numbers down and squish those bounces. The goal is to bring kitty into normal numbers and keep them there for as many hours as possible each cycle. That's when healing takes place. We administer exogenous insulin to take the place of a working pancreas. Taking the burden off the pancreas allows it to rest and heal.
Rapid reductions seem to work well for kitties within the first few months of diagnosis. They seem to be able to drop into normal numbers occasionally and then work themselves down the dosing scale quickly. Get beyond that and then you have to really work at showing them normal numbers (healing time). Bouncy kitties and kitties who experience horrific food spikes present more of a challenge than other diabetic kitties. That's why we sometimes like to prevent reductions with bouncy kitties & food spikers.
The higher the dose, the bigger the depot. The bigger the depot, the longer it takes to diminish. The number of days is also specific to an individual cat. I've seen the residual effects of a micro-dose last as long as 5 cycles with Alex. All I do is watch the numbers. If they start to trend upwards I declare a failed reduction.nckitties3 said:
The "typical Lantus curve" depicted in the sticky in the TR group is misleading. I have to figure out some way to change that so it makes more sense. The only time you'll see a "typical" curve as described is when kitty is at a point where the insulin is working well, isn't bouncing, and the bounce isn't breaking.nckitties3 said:
Please don't feel badly about that. Stuff happens. Life happens. Heck, just tonight Alex surprised me with a 49 at +11. I had her with me today, but got busy and minutes turned into hours before I knew it.nckitties3 said:
I wish I could give you a definitive answer. If you feel the bounce has cleared (evidenced by some lower numbers) and the numbers begin to trend upwards (higher nadirs and/or higher numbers across the board)... take the dose back up.nckitties3 said:
Take the dose back up any time you see numbers trending higher after a reduction.nckitties3 said:
I understand. Sometimes there just isn't a single answer...nckitties3 said:
I just hope I'm helping rather than adding to your confusion. :mrgreen:nckitties3 said:
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103
:lol: I'll have to reread this tomorrow, a couple times. :lol:
He's at 103, the tsp seems to be keeping it fairly steady. I gave him 1 more tsp. But how long should I keep it up? I don't want it to send him back in the black, ya know?
Maybe again at +6 is it hasn't gone up too much, still within a few points? If he jumps 40 pts, I'm not gonna give anymore. Sound ok?
:lol: I'll have to reread this tomorrow, a couple times. :lol:
He's at 103, the tsp seems to be keeping it fairly steady. I gave him 1 more tsp. But how long should I keep it up? I don't want it to send him back in the black, ya know?
Maybe again at +6 is it hasn't gone up too much, still within a few points? If he jumps 40 pts, I'm not gonna give anymore. Sound ok?
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103
it would be great if you could keep him surfing in the 90 to 110 range... if possible.
it's the drop... not the food that causes the high numbers of a bounce. the higher carb should work it's way out of his system in a matter of hours. the steep drop can cause kitties to bounce for days. as far as i'm concerned, he doesn't need to drop any further.
you'll have to play the feeding by ear. it'll depend on the test numbers you get.
i have to test and feed my crew, but will be back...
it would be great if you could keep him surfing in the 90 to 110 range... if possible.
it's the drop... not the food that causes the high numbers of a bounce. the higher carb should work it's way out of his system in a matter of hours. the steep drop can cause kitties to bounce for days. as far as i'm concerned, he doesn't need to drop any further.
you'll have to play the feeding by ear. it'll depend on the test numbers you get.
i have to test and feed my crew, but will be back...
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103
That's what I was just thinking, it might be better to keep him around 100 as much as possible, instead of allowing him to drop into the 60's, 50's etc. Seems like everyone else keeps pushing you to get them to earn the reduction. But all that seems to do to Lucian is make him bounce even higher and get constant dose adjustments. I think I may try to do this as much as possible for a while and see how he reacts to it. Wouldn't that help to bring down those pre shot readings? Makes a lot more sense to me than the constantly pushing them to 50.
I'll be here, still have to get his +6 in 45 min. If he's up around 140 150, I think I'd be ok to give him his meal of LC and go to bed.
Unfortunately, I'll be gone from about 1-5pm tomorrow, so hopefully he'll be ok. I have a DR appt and then PT appt afterwards, but may have a chance to run home between the 2 and test, I hope.
I checked the list and found 4 Friskee's flavors that are a 14 carb, would that be good for a med carb? He usually eats about an 8, an occasional 9. Everything else is 18 and higher.
That's what I was just thinking, it might be better to keep him around 100 as much as possible, instead of allowing him to drop into the 60's, 50's etc. Seems like everyone else keeps pushing you to get them to earn the reduction. But all that seems to do to Lucian is make him bounce even higher and get constant dose adjustments. I think I may try to do this as much as possible for a while and see how he reacts to it. Wouldn't that help to bring down those pre shot readings? Makes a lot more sense to me than the constantly pushing them to 50.
I'll be here, still have to get his +6 in 45 min. If he's up around 140 150, I think I'd be ok to give him his meal of LC and go to bed.
Unfortunately, I'll be gone from about 1-5pm tomorrow, so hopefully he'll be ok. I have a DR appt and then PT appt afterwards, but may have a chance to run home between the 2 and test, I hope.
I checked the list and found 4 Friskee's flavors that are a 14 carb, would that be good for a med carb? He usually eats about an 8, an occasional 9. Everything else is 18 and higher.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian +8.5/335,10.25/330,PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103
Yes, pushing reductions seems to be pretty popular.
It should help with preshot numbers. Remember, this is a gradual process. You won't see huge improvements over night... just like everything else with feline diabetes... patience is a virtue. I wish I was born with more of it! :lol:
If you have any doubts tonight or even tomorrow...
feed before bed/leaving the house and leave food out for him to nibble on.
14% carbs --- LC, MC, and HC depend on what they do for the individual cat. Anything above 5% works like HC for Alex. ECID.
If 14% works for Lucian... wonderful.
I'll be up for a bit and will be notified by email if you post on this thread. Otherwise... Nice work tonight! Goodnight!
Yes, pushing reductions seems to be pretty popular.
It should help with preshot numbers. Remember, this is a gradual process. You won't see huge improvements over night... just like everything else with feline diabetes... patience is a virtue. I wish I was born with more of it! :lol:
If you have any doubts tonight or even tomorrow...
feed before bed/leaving the house and leave food out for him to nibble on.
14% carbs --- LC, MC, and HC depend on what they do for the individual cat. Anything above 5% works like HC for Alex. ECID.
If 14% works for Lucian... wonderful.
I'll be up for a bit and will be notified by email if you post on this thread. Otherwise... Nice work tonight! Goodnight!
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 5/12 Lucian PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103,+6/94
He's dropped to 94, gave 2 tsp this time, want to keep him here and at this rate he'll be in the 80's in another hr, will test again then. Only thought I was going to bed. ohmygod_smile
I was thinking the MC for times like this, his LC for normal times and keep the HC in his hypo kit.
I'm going to try to keep him around 90 - 100 for a while, at least a couple weeks and see how his numbers react. If it can stop those crazy 600+ spikes, it's worth the effort.
I know you aren't on the board much, more so lately and I appreciate that, but I hope you'll keep check on us.
He's so mad at me, normally after he eats, he wants in the bed to sleep. Since he isn't full and wants more and I won't give it to him, he's on the bathroom rug, giving me dirty looks. :lol:
He's dropped to 94, gave 2 tsp this time, want to keep him here and at this rate he'll be in the 80's in another hr, will test again then. Only thought I was going to bed. ohmygod_smile
I was thinking the MC for times like this, his LC for normal times and keep the HC in his hypo kit.
I'm going to try to keep him around 90 - 100 for a while, at least a couple weeks and see how his numbers react. If it can stop those crazy 600+ spikes, it's worth the effort.
I know you aren't on the board much, more so lately and I appreciate that, but I hope you'll keep check on us.
He's so mad at me, normally after he eats, he wants in the bed to sleep. Since he isn't full and wants more and I won't give it to him, he's on the bathroom rug, giving me dirty looks. :lol:
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/12 Lucian PMPS 355,+4/106,+5/103,+6/94
given the lateness of the hour and the fact that he has dropped (thank god only a little)... if i were in your shoes i'd add one drop of karo to his food.... just enough to give him a nice little bump.
you're right, i haven't been on the board much lately and i do have several commitments & a few days travel through mid-june, but i try to check PMs on a regular basis. if i'm not around you can always send me a PM and i'll take a look at your thread.
given the lateness of the hour and the fact that he has dropped (thank god only a little)... if i were in your shoes i'd add one drop of karo to his food.... just enough to give him a nice little bump.
you're right, i haven't been on the board much lately and i do have several commitments & a few days travel through mid-june, but i try to check PMs on a regular basis. if i'm not around you can always send me a PM and i'll take a look at your thread.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
He's up to 122, so I gave him his 1/4 can LC and I'm gonna hit the hay, gotta be up in 4.5 hrs. I don't feel he'll drop any more. The MC kept him stable when he would have gone very low, thank you for the advice.
Have a good night.
I'll have to reread all that info when I'm awake.
Have a good night.
I'll have to reread all that info when I'm awake.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Agreed, makes more sense to me. I'm still reading! :lol: Jill also has tons of links on Alex's page, that I have never seen and have been reading.
They way I figure it, what I've been doing is not working well, Lucian is a bouncy boy! So I'm going to try to control that by not letting him go so low that he bounces to the 600+. Don't know how well it will work, but I'm going to give it my all for a few weeks and see if we might be able to get a little more control over him. Standard protocol works for most cats I guess, but not for Lucian. The way Jill explained it, makes sense to me, for him.
Am still considering R, (I believe it is) and may attempt that in the future if this trial doesn't help him. This continuation of repeated 600+ can not be healthy.
They way I figure it, what I've been doing is not working well, Lucian is a bouncy boy! So I'm going to try to control that by not letting him go so low that he bounces to the 600+. Don't know how well it will work, but I'm going to give it my all for a few weeks and see if we might be able to get a little more control over him. Standard protocol works for most cats I guess, but not for Lucian. The way Jill explained it, makes sense to me, for him.
Am still considering R, (I believe it is) and may attempt that in the future if this trial doesn't help him. This continuation of repeated 600+ can not be healthy.
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