5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55...+11/271

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Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67

Now at +3.5 we have a 69. The last thing I fed her was a single Temptation 45 minutes ago. Should I still feed her LC or just hang out til +4?

Abby's nadir is usually around +5 but I've seen it as early as +3.5 and as late as +7...though the +7 was just once on like day 2.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67

I would probably give her a bit of LC. She's doing great, but that will help her keep surfing.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67

OK, fed her a little LC about 5 minutes before I got her +4, which was 66. Before I forget in my weariness later...THANK YOU to everyone who has stopped by with encouraging words...and to Tena and Libby for guiding me through this. I know we're not through it yet but I feel better about where things are now versus 2 hours ago.

And my vet is going to have a COW when she sees I shot a 112 (she monitors Abby's SS)...
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66

Kristen: You are awarded the Trial by Fire Award tonight. :cool: You handled it like a Pro.

191_4.jpg
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66

looks like Abby is planning to hang out in the 60s tonight. :smile:

You did good, what you are doing is helping her body learn to use Lantus the way it works best - in nice, flat, lower cycles.

On this note, I'm out of here for the night. Abby is doing great and so are you. I would keep testing until you get a couple of rising tests or until she passes her nadir. Then you'll have a really good idea of what she can do with this dose.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66

I hope the ice cream was for you and not for Abby! As for the Temptations, I would put them in a zip lock bag, put the bag in a plastic container, and put the whole thing in the back of the freezer and forget about them. Feeding dry anything isn't useful. HC food (gravy) will work faster and is cleared by Abby's system faster than Temptations.

I also think you need to remember the basic mantra: "Shoot low to stay low." If you want to get Abby back OTJ, you are going to need to get comfortable with shooting low numbers. A 112 is not that low. Shooting in the 50s is low. I'm not suggesting you do that tomorrow, but by progressively shooting lower and gathering data, you will become more comfortable and will know how Abby responds.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66

Now at +4.5 we're at 81.

Thanks Sienne. I didn't have to learn this lesson the 1st time (or rather maybe I should have but I was too chicken) so while technically I'm not a newbie, I am kinda still a newbie. Shooting less than 200 was nerve-wracking for me, but then I got some 190s and then 180s in there. Like Libby said earlier, I should have just shot the 141 that was there at +12 and saved myself the tears. I've learned my lesson. A 112 is tremendously low to me, though I understand it's not to those who've been here longer. Honestly though, I'm still not going to do it again unless I'm here to babysit.

So I'm interested in thoughts for her AM shot. I will not be here to monitor her.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66

Just a thought.....Tomorrow morning get a +11 and post for feedback. Of course then you wouldn't be able to sleep in. :sad: But you would have a better idea where Abby was going and also alert folks that you are needing some feedback on her numbers before you shoot.


ni ni kristen and abby
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +1/106, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66

wHAT A night!!! I understand being scared to shoot low, but we all learn how to live with it--
I will use MC or HC anyday over temptations, but sometimes Moonie wont eat & if she is too low, i give her 7 or so temptations as an emergancy to get her numbers up--It is always better to use food, but I also hate syringe feeding her Karo syrup, which I have done at times also..You had a great night, I think she will bounce tomorrow probably--Great job..check with the board before you leave in the am. Have a peaceful night!
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66, +5/86

Thanks Roni and Tena...good ideas. We're at 86 at +5 so I'm going to set an alarm for an hour and get a +6 in case I zonk while watching TV.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66, +5/86, +6/126

And with that +6 I'm heading to bed. Thanks again everyone. Stay tuned for morning shot questions.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55, +3/67, +4/66, +5/86, +6/126

hi kristin. nice job handling abby's number's tonight!

I agree with sienne. put those temptations in a baggie or a jar and stick them in the freezer. enjoy the ice cream yourself! you're much better off using canned lc, mc, hc food and/or hc gravy to control the curve. wet hc goes to work faster when you need it and clears the system in less time when it's no longer needed. the advice to give karo has taken on a life of it's own in LL these days. generally speaking, it is not needed unless a kitty is in the 30s or below or if a kitty drops dramatically into low numbers early in the cycle. hc the 40s unless they're at the end of the cycle (exception: a late nadir kitty). *usually* a little lc is sufficient to bump 40s up at the end of a cycle. of course, there are always exceptions. how your cat responds to lc, mc, and hc will vary depending on what point you're at in the cycle. use your ss to make notes. "data" consists of much more than numbers.

getting a kitty back to the Falls is much harder than it was the first time around. most don't make it back there. your best bet is to become as aggressive as safely possible. caregivers whose kitties have returned from the falls generally find themselves working a lot harder than caregivers of newly diagnosed kitties.

when alex returned from the Falls in 2009 after being OTJ for almost 3 years i purposely tested her a lot to illustrate shooting full doses on low preshot numbers in order to achieve the shallow curves lantus and levemir are known for to help caregivers like yourself. click on her ss link in my signature and then click on the link to her 2009 spreadsheet to see how to pull abby's numbers down and keep them down... offering her the best chance at a second honeymoon.

next step...
STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - DATA READY TO SHOOT LOW NUMBERS?

skip down to "WHAT IF YOU ARE NOT A NEWBIE?". read it. study it. read the links provided.
those early spot checks (+1s and +2s) are pivotal in understanding how much of a food spike (if any) abby usually experiences after getting her shot. the early spot checks will also give you an idea of when onset occurs. knowing your cat's onset, nadir, and duration on any given dose arms you with the knowledge needed to make educated decisions. many even move their shot times so they'll be home a few hours after giving a shot before they have to go to work. understanding overlap and carryover is the key to tight regulation... and tight regulation has been proven to be the key to remission. when you stall, you lose overlap and carryover. not good especially when trying to get a kitty back to the Falls.

those late spot checks (+10s and +11s) will give you an idea of the rate of the rise or descent. if kitty has already experienced a nadir even a dip at the end of the cycle is ok to shoot. if kitty has a late nadir (at +12), you'll know it's ok to shoot because the bg number is going nowhere but up. if kitty is rising and you know it because you have a +10 or +11, you'll feel more comfortable shooting at your regular shot time even if the number is under 100.

being available to monitor is always recommended the first few times you shoot on a low preshot number. this enables you to collect the data needed to support your decisions.

libby already linked her post Dealing with Low Preshots.
there's a lot of good info there. ideally, you'll want to stay as close as possible to a 12/12 schedule. unless a kitty is free-falling into shot time, an experienced caregiver will shoot a full dose on a low number even if it's dropping. for instance, tonight alex was 96 @ +8, 77 @ +10, and 60 at pmps. i fed and shot her regular dose. glad i did because at +1.25 she was 126 already. if i had stalled, she would have been much higher because of her food spike and i would have lost overlap and carryover. you want to get yourself to this point by becoming data ready.

sienne put together a great post Don't Panic! or How to Handle Low Numbers.
again, i encourage you to read and study it. bookmark it for easy reference.


do you have a plan in place for feeding the curve at specified times during the cycle when you cannot be there? some use timed feeders. others freeze food and leave it out so it will thaw and be available while they're gone. the idea is to have food available should kitty feel themselves dropping. most kitties will self-feed.

hope some of this will help you pull abby's numbers down and keep them down...
"shoot low to stay low". :mrgreen:
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55...+11/271 - AM dose???

I'm going to re-read everyone's posts when I am more coherent. I know there's a lot of good info in there but I'm not thinking straight and am heading back to bed until +12.

So at +11 we're at 271 and full bounce is taking hold. That's obviously a number I can shoot, even with me not around to monitor. My question is: do I reduce because she was only above 50 because we supported her with food? Had I not been vigilant she would have easily dropped lower. (I know, people say 40 now but no matter what happens I can't in good conscience let her slide below 40, or even into the 40s, just to eek a reduction out of her)
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55...+11/271 - AM dose???

Start a new condo for today and put your +11 in the heading also attach yesterday's condo. Good job last night. Post your AMBG and someone will be around. I would shoot her normal dose based on the +11. She is in bounce form. I don't believe she earned a dosecrease. I know it is hard but the tight regulation does work.

Hang in there and have a Happy Friday.
 
Re: 5/12 Abby PMPS 112, +2/55...+11/271 - AM dose???

Wow what a day yesterday huh! I feel like we both got initiated or something!

At the end of my thing yesterday, Sienne warned me that Junior's number might bounce so this may be a similar thing for you. I'll let the experts weigh in but thought I'd share that with you. Here's the link to the actual message.

Good luck today!
 
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