5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +6 258, +10 200, PMPS 208
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Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490
Hi, Tammy and welcome to you and Corwyn to Lantus Land.
Here's a link to your first post on the Health board:
You already gotten some good information from Ry, Gayle and Julia. You've started testing and have your spreadsheet up and running and, you've switched Corwyn to a low carb canned food diet so you've got the basics covered.
It's looking like Corwyn's "enjoying" a bounce from that green pre-shot on 5/8. The hard part is being patient and allowing the bounce to clear. Corwyn's liver panicked at that normal range number and dumped a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones into his bloodstream -- hence a bounce. It can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to clear.
Please let us know how we can help. We've all stood in your shoes and were terrified of this entire process. It doesn't help that there's an overwhelming amount to learn at the beginning of this journey. The people here are incredibly generous with their time and information so please, ask questions. I hope you'll post on a regular basis so we can get to know you and Corwyn.
Hi, Tammy and welcome to you and Corwyn to Lantus Land.
Here's a link to your first post on the Health board:
You already gotten some good information from Ry, Gayle and Julia. You've started testing and have your spreadsheet up and running and, you've switched Corwyn to a low carb canned food diet so you've got the basics covered.
It's looking like Corwyn's "enjoying" a bounce from that green pre-shot on 5/8. The hard part is being patient and allowing the bounce to clear. Corwyn's liver panicked at that normal range number and dumped a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones into his bloodstream -- hence a bounce. It can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to clear.
Please let us know how we can help. We've all stood in your shoes and were terrified of this entire process. It doesn't help that there's an overwhelming amount to learn at the beginning of this journey. The people here are incredibly generous with their time and information so please, ask questions. I hope you'll post on a regular basis so we can get to know you and Corwyn.
PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490
Hi guys .. and welcome to LL from us! I'm sorry corwyn is so high today .. hoping the numbers come down nice and easy .. and yes, there is a lot of hand holding in this forum, no worries! Have a great weekend!
Hi guys .. and welcome to LL from us! I'm sorry corwyn is so high today .. hoping the numbers come down nice and easy .. and yes, there is a lot of hand holding in this forum, no worries! Have a great weekend!
ahzryn
Member Since 2012
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490
It's hard to cram everything you need to know in the pick-up appt. at the vet. When I got his curve numbers from them yesterday, the technician said the same thing you lovely folks said...it's a bounce, he'll be high for a while, don't panic. Easy for them to say. :roll:
He's due to have his poor ear-bits assaulted again here in abut 20 minutes, and I'm guessing it will be a black number. The 72 hours for a bounce to clear, is that from the green number itself? So things should start looking more typical numbers wise this evening maybe? I know a few of the members in my original post were concerned the 1.5u may still be too high. The last thing I want is for him to bounce again, but thankfully I have three days here to keep a closer eye on things.
No vomiting so far today, here's hoping.
It's hard to cram everything you need to know in the pick-up appt. at the vet. When I got his curve numbers from them yesterday, the technician said the same thing you lovely folks said...it's a bounce, he'll be high for a while, don't panic. Easy for them to say. :roll:
He's due to have his poor ear-bits assaulted again here in abut 20 minutes, and I'm guessing it will be a black number. The 72 hours for a bounce to clear, is that from the green number itself? So things should start looking more typical numbers wise this evening maybe? I know a few of the members in my original post were concerned the 1.5u may still be too high. The last thing I want is for him to bounce again, but thankfully I have three days here to keep a closer eye on things.
No vomiting so far today, here's hoping.
Patty & Champ
Member Since 2011
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490
Hi Tammy!! You've already got a really good handle on this...you've got a good vet, you're testing, and you're feeding the right food. You're already ahead of the game for being new at this!!! The only thing I might mention is that a lot of us feed out cats small meals over the first few hours of each cycle. I feed Champ 3 oz every cycle, 1 oz at shot time, 1 oz at +2, 0.5 oz at +3 or +4, and the last 0.5 oz anytime before +8. Feeding multiple times throughout the day helps their blood sugars from fluctuating too wildly. If you work outside the home, you could use a timed feeder, even with wet food. I know you have other pets in the house, so this might not be an option for you.
I remember how scary this all is at the beginning. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. BUT...it gets so much better!!! Pretty soon, Corwyn is going to start feeling better and looking better and you'll realize he doesn't have one foot in the grave!! It took Champ about a month before he was getting back to normal, where he had gained some weight back, his coat was nice and shiny again, and he didn't need to sleep all the time. This is the best place possible for hand-holding because we ALL needed the hand-holding, not only at the beginning, but other times when our kitties get sick or have upcoming procedures to go through.
You're doing a really fabulous job!!! We're all here for you when you need us!!
Edited to add: Bouncing is a fact of life for a lot of kitties, especially when they're first starting on insulin. You'll learn how to deal with it, though it can be frustrating at times.
Hi Tammy!! You've already got a really good handle on this...you've got a good vet, you're testing, and you're feeding the right food. You're already ahead of the game for being new at this!!! The only thing I might mention is that a lot of us feed out cats small meals over the first few hours of each cycle. I feed Champ 3 oz every cycle, 1 oz at shot time, 1 oz at +2, 0.5 oz at +3 or +4, and the last 0.5 oz anytime before +8. Feeding multiple times throughout the day helps their blood sugars from fluctuating too wildly. If you work outside the home, you could use a timed feeder, even with wet food. I know you have other pets in the house, so this might not be an option for you.
I remember how scary this all is at the beginning. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. BUT...it gets so much better!!! Pretty soon, Corwyn is going to start feeling better and looking better and you'll realize he doesn't have one foot in the grave!! It took Champ about a month before he was getting back to normal, where he had gained some weight back, his coat was nice and shiny again, and he didn't need to sleep all the time. This is the best place possible for hand-holding because we ALL needed the hand-holding, not only at the beginning, but other times when our kitties get sick or have upcoming procedures to go through.
You're doing a really fabulous job!!! We're all here for you when you need us!!
Edited to add: Bouncing is a fact of life for a lot of kitties, especially when they're first starting on insulin. You'll learn how to deal with it, though it can be frustrating at times.
ahzryn
Member Since 2012
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349
Ok.... +2.5 (missed my reminder) was 349. That's almost a 150 point drop, which seems like a lot? I don't recall seeing such big swings in such a short time on other sheets, but it's all blurring together.
And I got growled at. :YMSIGH: Guess his patience with the silly human has finally been exhausted.
Ok.... +2.5 (missed my reminder) was 349. That's almost a 150 point drop, which seems like a lot? I don't recall seeing such big swings in such a short time on other sheets, but it's all blurring together.
And I got growled at. :YMSIGH: Guess his patience with the silly human has finally been exhausted.
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349
Couple of things....
Bounces are normal, especially at this point in the process. Corwyn's body may have "forgotten" what normal range blood glucose (BG) feels like. That's why you're seeing bounces. They are pretty much unavoidable. They're a pain but the more time he spends in lower ranges, the more he will get accustomed to those lower numbers and the bouncing will taper off.
It is a sizable drop in 2.5 hours. Again, don't worry about it. The insulin is doing it's job.
As for testing and getting growled at, are you giving Corwyn treats when you test? At first, most cats are not happy about being poked. Once they associate treats with the test, it will get easier. Lots of people here use freeze dried or cooked (or even raw) chicken as a treat. My cat likes the Wellness jerky style treats. These guys will work for treats and as soon as that positive association is made, it really does get easier.
Couple of things....
Bounces are normal, especially at this point in the process. Corwyn's body may have "forgotten" what normal range blood glucose (BG) feels like. That's why you're seeing bounces. They are pretty much unavoidable. They're a pain but the more time he spends in lower ranges, the more he will get accustomed to those lower numbers and the bouncing will taper off.
It is a sizable drop in 2.5 hours. Again, don't worry about it. The insulin is doing it's job.
As for testing and getting growled at, are you giving Corwyn treats when you test? At first, most cats are not happy about being poked. Once they associate treats with the test, it will get easier. Lots of people here use freeze dried or cooked (or even raw) chicken as a treat. My cat likes the Wellness jerky style treats. These guys will work for treats and as soon as that positive association is made, it really does get easier.
ahzryn
Member Since 2012
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349
Yep, he'll do almost anything for kitty crack as we refer to it, but even his favorite crack was not enough to compensate this time.
I'll spend some time looking at automated feeders today. We'd have to separate him during the day so only he had access to it since dh and I both work, but that's not an insurmountable problem. I've been coming home over lunch the last few days, and of course working from home today, but he has't been terribly interested in eating until the PM meal once he has breakfast.
THanks for the hand holding, I appreciate it.
Yep, he'll do almost anything for kitty crack as we refer to it, but even his favorite crack was not enough to compensate this time.
I'll spend some time looking at automated feeders today. We'd have to separate him during the day so only he had access to it since dh and I both work, but that's not an insurmountable problem. I've been coming home over lunch the last few days, and of course working from home today, but he has't been terribly interested in eating until the PM meal once he has breakfast.
THanks for the hand holding, I appreciate it.
ahzryn
Member Since 2012
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349, +4 293
Happier with the next check at least. I may try the pen instead of free-handing it, worth a shot.
Also, had a question or two. I think I understand doing a curve now, and when to increase/decrease/stay based on the curve. It looks like with Lantus +3, +6, and +9 curves are acceptable, as are +2, +4, +6, +8, +10. Is there a reason to go with one over the other? Still reading on bounces. Other question was, in between curves, what is the recommended testing schedule? Obviously AMPS and PMPS, but do you just do a single spot check in between? Somewhere around +6, or do you vary it? Wondering if I need to plan on coming home over lunch for the forseeable future, or hire a pet sitter, or what.
Happier with the next check at least. I may try the pen instead of free-handing it, worth a shot.
Also, had a question or two. I think I understand doing a curve now, and when to increase/decrease/stay based on the curve. It looks like with Lantus +3, +6, and +9 curves are acceptable, as are +2, +4, +6, +8, +10. Is there a reason to go with one over the other? Still reading on bounces. Other question was, in between curves, what is the recommended testing schedule? Obviously AMPS and PMPS, but do you just do a single spot check in between? Somewhere around +6, or do you vary it? Wondering if I need to plan on coming home over lunch for the forseeable future, or hire a pet sitter, or what.
Patty & Champ
Member Since 2011
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349, +4 293
Good question on the testing, but hard to answer because all of us beans are different. There are quite a few who are testaholics (I fit into that category) who test every couple of hours or so. There are others who work outside the home and set up their schedule so they get up early enough to test/feed/shoot and then can get a +2 as they walk out the door to work. The +2 is important since it will tell you whether kitty is planning on going down that day. Some come home at lunch to test if it's convenient...some can't and don't. I've gotten to the point where I try to always get a +2 and then, depending on the number, I'll decide if and when I need to test again. Once you've been doing this for a while, you'll get an idea of what your cat's patterns are (when his AMPS was this and his +2 is now this, this is going to happen by +5, etc.)
Good question on the testing, but hard to answer because all of us beans are different. There are quite a few who are testaholics (I fit into that category) who test every couple of hours or so. There are others who work outside the home and set up their schedule so they get up early enough to test/feed/shoot and then can get a +2 as they walk out the door to work. The +2 is important since it will tell you whether kitty is planning on going down that day. Some come home at lunch to test if it's convenient...some can't and don't. I've gotten to the point where I try to always get a +2 and then, depending on the number, I'll decide if and when I need to test again. Once you've been doing this for a while, you'll get an idea of what your cat's patterns are (when his AMPS was this and his +2 is now this, this is going to happen by +5, etc.)
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349, +4 293
Curves are sometimes helpful especially if you think something may be changing. There's not an overall compelling reason to do a curve vs. mini-curve. We encourage getting curves early on so you can get a sense of when onset and nadir are as well as what kind of duration you're getting. It helps to be aware that nadir isn't a fixed point -- it can change. Sometimes nadir changes frequently and sometimes it shifts around. Gabby's nadir is usually at around +3 or +4 but she's gone as late as +7 or +8. As a result, getting random spot checks can help fill out the blanks on a spread sheet. If you look in the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky, there's a section on becoming data ready that will help you have a context for when to test.
Many of us work. (In fact I'm at work right now.) There have been days when I ran home to test. The majority of the time, I do not go home. In part, this is because I have a ton of data and I pretty much know where Gabby's numbers are going to head by early in the cycle. As you collect data, you'll get a better idea of what is going on with Corwyn. The timed feeder that you mentioned will also give you more flexibility with your schedule as long as Corwyn will eat when you're not home. Once you get a feeder, you can experiment with it when you're there to observe.
Curves are sometimes helpful especially if you think something may be changing. There's not an overall compelling reason to do a curve vs. mini-curve. We encourage getting curves early on so you can get a sense of when onset and nadir are as well as what kind of duration you're getting. It helps to be aware that nadir isn't a fixed point -- it can change. Sometimes nadir changes frequently and sometimes it shifts around. Gabby's nadir is usually at around +3 or +4 but she's gone as late as +7 or +8. As a result, getting random spot checks can help fill out the blanks on a spread sheet. If you look in the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky, there's a section on becoming data ready that will help you have a context for when to test.
Many of us work. (In fact I'm at work right now.) There have been days when I ran home to test. The majority of the time, I do not go home. In part, this is because I have a ton of data and I pretty much know where Gabby's numbers are going to head by early in the cycle. As you collect data, you'll get a better idea of what is going on with Corwyn. The timed feeder that you mentioned will also give you more flexibility with your schedule as long as Corwyn will eat when you're not home. Once you get a feeder, you can experiment with it when you're there to observe.
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 5/11 Corwyn amps 490, +2.5 349, +4 293, +6 258, +8 275
Oh, welcome to LantusLand, and the confusion that is FD :roll: :lol: . You are NOT alone in this...some of us have been at this for a while, and still find it quite confusing! You are doing wonderfully, and have come to the right place, though.
Today's flatness is actually quite nice and gentle...eventually, you'd like to see lower flat numbers, but not a bad start at all!
We use the pen to test Trix...I think free-handing would freak both of us out! It may be worth a try with Corwyn.
Again...welcome to the group! Ask as many questions as often as you need...everyone here is very generous with their time, knowledge, and support - and we've all been exactly where you are today!
Amy
ahzryn said:
Oh, welcome to LantusLand, and the confusion that is FD :roll: :lol: . You are NOT alone in this...some of us have been at this for a while, and still find it quite confusing! You are doing wonderfully, and have come to the right place, though.
Today's flatness is actually quite nice and gentle...eventually, you'd like to see lower flat numbers, but not a bad start at all!
We use the pen to test Trix...I think free-handing would freak both of us out! It may be worth a try with Corwyn.
Again...welcome to the group! Ask as many questions as often as you need...everyone here is very generous with their time, knowledge, and support - and we've all been exactly where you are today!
Amy
ahzryn
Member Since 2012
Well, after a brief food spike he is continuing his slide. With no data to have any clue where he's going, I'm a little scared to go to bed. nailbite_smile But on the other hand, after a full curve today there aren't many unbruised spots left on his poor ears. I did give the pen a try, and that seems to be working fine. It's just more difficult to make sure I am hitting the right spot, and it does seem to bruise more than freehand. It shows up so well on those pale ears. :sad:
If anyone is still up, feed him a spoon full of food to be safe an call it a night? Set an alarm and check him again all in 2 hours? Though given what I thought was a nadir at +6 in the AM curve was just a momentary tick up and then he dove some more, maybe that should read check him every 2 hours all night...
If anyone is still up, feed him a spoon full of food to be safe an call it a night? Set an alarm and check him again all in 2 hours? Though given what I thought was a nadir at +6 in the AM curve was just a momentary tick up and then he dove some more, maybe that should read check him every 2 hours all night...
Hi Tammy,
Are you compressing his ears after you've gotten the drop of blood? I fold over some gauze and hold down on the ear for about 10 seconds or so. It'll get better over time, but the compress helps prevent the bruising. My Neko's ears were pretty bruised the first couple of days but they go away in a day or two. You can also using something like Neosporin ointment to help with healing.
If you are up and still testing, you can probably go to bed after you start to see numbers rise again, as long as you are still in a safe range. Nadirs can change from cycle to cycle and testing today when Corwyn was getting over a bounce will confuse when the actual nadir was. You will also get good at doing power sleeps in between tests. If Neko is low and getting closer to nadir, I test hourly. Once you have more data you'll have a better idea of when it is safe to go to bed.
Are you compressing his ears after you've gotten the drop of blood? I fold over some gauze and hold down on the ear for about 10 seconds or so. It'll get better over time, but the compress helps prevent the bruising. My Neko's ears were pretty bruised the first couple of days but they go away in a day or two. You can also using something like Neosporin ointment to help with healing.
If you are up and still testing, you can probably go to bed after you start to see numbers rise again, as long as you are still in a safe range. Nadirs can change from cycle to cycle and testing today when Corwyn was getting over a bounce will confuse when the actual nadir was. You will also get good at doing power sleeps in between tests. If Neko is low and getting closer to nadir, I test hourly. Once you have more data you'll have a better idea of when it is safe to go to bed.
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