5/10 Suzie 329 AMPS

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Maria & Suzie

Maria & Suzie

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Hi all,

Am trying to follow the protocol. Have set up a spreadsheet for Suzie which will hopefully appear in my signature. Profile to follow. Hope I did it right in the Subject line.

Am worried about the way she was bouncing yesterday.

Her AMPS was 329 this morning. My vet advised to go up to 4 IU (I am happy to be able to email with my vet) in view of yesterday's HI readings, but I stuck with 3.5 IU. Today is day 4 of 3.5 IU, am trying to stick with it.

Lantus is not an insulin that has been around very long here for veterinary use, so I have my doubts as to how much experience vets over here in Belgium have with it. I am not knocking it, I am happy I found a vet who recognized what was wrong with Suzie and that we were lucky enough to get Lantus. Also just happy that Suzie is eating again and even gaining some weight. She had stopped eating and we were getting by on horrible force-feeding.

She is relatively lively, in the sense of actually asking for food, moving about the house. When she sleeps though, it's the sleep of the dead, on her side, can barely see her breathe, then she wakes up, looks alert and goes to the food bowl. She has also started grooming a bit again, something that had completely stopped.

Happy for any advice about dosage anyone can give based on Suzie's readings. I am working from home today, so am going to try to test her every 3-4 hours today.

re. the tips to go back down to 1 IU and "start over", won't that be a shock to Suzie's system? to suddenly go from 3.5 to 1 ?

She is frail and skinny and 15 years old, she doesn't have much margin and I'd be horrified if she stopped eating again.

thanks to all!

Maria & Suzie
 
Hallo Maria!

I hear you are looking for diabetic friendly food tips. Here is a small sample of what might available in your area and what some people have had good luck with.

Animonda- Most varities which do not have sauce (Pate style)
Almo Nature-almost all are very low carbs but is rather pricey
Gormet Gold classic-is the same as the Fancy Feast which many in the US are using, again the pate styles without sauce
Felix (as good as it looks) comes in pouches of 100g
Whiskas Mmmmm!-also in pouches 85g
I feed the cans from Aldi and Lidl- Always the pate types (no sauce or jelly) Lidl Opticat premium (poultry) or Aldi Shah (or Lux) in the 200g size (beef and chicken, or Wild) Also the 100g aluminium dishes from Aldi or Lidl-any of the pate flavors.
Miamor-mild menue or the small cans (85g) looks just like Gormet Gold

Most important is reading the label (ingredients: Meat and Meat by-products, water, minerals) should not contain sugar or artifical color (which is often caramel=sugar) or thickeners (starch) and artifical flavoring.

As far as changing the dose....I wouldn't make a sudden change down to 1U, as long as you are testing often you will be able to tell if a change is needed. If you want to start over at a lower dose and work back up I wouldn't decrease by more than half of what you are giving currently. The numbers you get today will help guide you as what you should do.
 
Here is the site for Zooplus Belgium http://www.zooplus.be/shop/chats/boites_sachets_barquettes_chat many of the foods I listed you can find here (and at least see what they look like so you can find them in the supermarkets or pet stores) Zooplus also has free shipping in most of the EU (for oders over 30€) there are also e-mail offers and frequent coupons for % off or save 5€ etc.

10047_2.jpg


This is what the Gourmet Gold looks like-it is the same as Fancy Feast (Purina)

9477_animonda_1.jpg

Animonda dishes

10179_almonature_huhngarn_1.jpg

Almo Nature-100% meat (cat food in human quality) 70g cans
 
Hi Monique,

Thank you so much for your reply ! I am surprised to see foods from Gourmet, Felix, Whiskas, Aldi & Lidl as low-carb. Pleasantly surprised ! However, the problem with Suzie is = no teeth! She struggles getting soft food down in pate form without a sauce or jelly.

I've been tipped to mix soft food into a "soup" with lots of water, but I'm a little worried Suzie will fill her belly with lots of liquid instead of calories (she lost a large amount of weight and only started eating again about a week ago). I might try to be creative and see if I can make little balls of the stiffer pate food for her. (she eats by taking the food in her mouth and sort of "throwing" it back, and then swallowing it)

The Whiskas Mmmmm pouches - are they the ones with real pieces of fish in them (as opposed to "catfood", if you see what I mean?). They do have jelly or sauce, but before she was diagnosed, Suzie always liked the ones with real pieces of fish in jelly. Here in Belgium they are called "Zo.... Rijk aan". In fact, I'll go to http://www.Whiskas.de site and see if I recognize the packaging, so thanks so much for the tip !

I had a can of Almo in my hand the other day at Maxi-Zoo (I think it's a German chain, they have opened stores here now), but was unsure + couldn't figure out how help her eat it.

Suzie's low point was 3.2 kg, she was literally fur over bone, now she is eating about 60g of dry diabetes food (I know, I know, but I did what the vet told me before I found this forum, and I figure in any case it's better than what she ate before and at least she is eating again, so now I can make gentle adjustments and transition to soft food). We have tried to weigh her at home, and think we see 3.5kg.

Thank you so much for your advice!

Maria & Suzie
 
Here is a picture of the Whiskas

35576_whiskas_frischebeutel_1.jpg


There is a fish variety pack and one with meat (beef, pultry, lamb) We try to limit the amount of fish (someone can explain why?) to 2-3 meals a week.

The Whiskas is small peices with sauce, some of the Felix (chunks style with jelly) are also low carb. The Almo Nature is not pate but rather like shredded meat. I only bought 1 can of Chicken and shrimps and I swear I could have mixed a little mayo in and served it to guests! It was like chicken salad with tiny little greenland prawns in it and some broth.

I will make a picture of the Lidl/Aldi cans I feed (can't find it online) so know which ones they recently changed the labels. I wouldn't worry to much about making soup by adding water, I don't think they get to full from water alone. The water is good for them and even if they get a full belly after eating the water will be diagested quickly and because it has no energy value they will feel hungry again quickly, so you may have to feed smaller amounts more often.

My Spooky is just 4kg, he is not to thin, he is really petite and slim for a male cat.

Lunchtime for me now......Bon apetit'
 
Thanks for the pic of the Whiskas, it's as I suspected, I know which is the Belgian version of this now.

When you say to limit the amount of fish to 2-3 times a week, that makes me curious what to feed in a day. What other foods should I give and what sort of amounts (right now she is free-feeding since we're just happy she has started eating again). Today she has eaten some dry diabetes food (since she is currently used to that and I don't want to do any too drastic diet changes, she has a history of easily getting an upset tummy & colon) and I gave her half a pouch of Whiskas with fish after we emailed earlier (she's always liked this food, perhaps inadvertedly it has helped her through a period of un-diagnosed diabetes).

I doubt I can get Suzie to eat much of anything that is not fish-based, she has never been keen on any meats her entire life, apart from the odd nibble & lick of a Whiskas pouch...

I get it that foods need to be low-carb and on wet food, and in Suzie's case with her CRF, also low phosphorous, but am still confused, despite lots of reading, as to just what is considered to be low-carb enough.

Will head for the local supermarket for some of the recommended Gourmet Gold, fingers crossed she & I can figure out how to eat it without teeth! the Almo and the other foods will have to come from a petfood store, a longer drive away for when I have time to go, hopefully tomorrow, ditto for Aldi & Lidl. It's "taste-test time for Suzie!"

Am not too worried about her going hypo with diet changes as I intend to keep testing her at least 3x times day, more if I can, until we see her steady. Her poor little ears, but she is very good about it all. Bought a brilliant glucose meter online from www.apo-rot.de in Germany, good price and quick delivery. Easy to use, tiny drop of blood needed, and above all else, very quick, before she gets fed up and shakes!

Maria
 
Suzie's previous thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14113&p=141718#p141718


Hi Maria and Suzie...who's Andy? Is that DH?
lol, sorry, got confused

Just wanted to say Welcome to the Lantus forum!

And thanks to Monique for posting those great pics of the foods for you! :thumbup

In regards to the fish, if feeding lots of it, it can be hard to get kitties to eat anything different, it's addictive and not so good to have it everyday.
However, you do wanna make sure she is eating - so sometimes you have to give in and feed whatever she will eat.

Hope to see you posting regularly, lots of excellent support and knowledgeable beans here!
 
I'm glad Monique has been able to lend a hand with food. Most of us add water to our cat's food. Frankly, with CRF being an issue, adding water is a very good thing. You don't need to feed just twice a day with a diabetic cat. You can let Suzie free feed on wet food or if you're home, give her multiple smaller meals. These are great strategies since it puts less pressure on her pancreas and promotes healing.

I'd like to encourage you to get some spot checks in during the PM cycle -- at least a before bed test. Often, cats' numbers are lower at night. Having those data are very important especially since it looks like Suzie's numbers are bouncing up after some lower, mid-cycle numbers.

I've asked a few others to take a look at Suzie's spreadsheet. At the very least, don't change the dose for the moment. Suzie's doses have been moving around a bit and Lantus is the kind of insulin that likes consistency. Doses need a time to settle and do their work. Numbers can look odd if too many changes are made too close together. Also, dosing changes/decisions are made based on the lowest point of the cycle, the nadir, rather than on pre-shot values. Your vet may be more familiar with the shorter acting forms of insulin when advising you to change the dose based on pre-shot numbers. I'd also suggest not increasing Suzie's dose if you are transitioning her over to wet food from the dry. Eliminating the dry food can cause numbers to drop.
 
Hi !

Sorry about the Andy thing, he's my husband and he logged on to help me figure out profiles and stuff, and then we got our log-ons mixed up somehow. Oops, still getting the hang of things! He is also the main shot-giver, turns out he has a talent for giving shots. I can do it too, but since I am doing all the reading, thinking and fretting, am happy to let him give the shots when he's around.

Am heading out to the grocery store now to look for Gourmet (which is the European form of Fancy Feast, as it turns out).

Thanks for the explanation on the fish, I think for now I will let her have the Whiskas fish pouches as she is used to those from before (less chance of tummy upsets), and she just needs to eat and regain strength. I'll buy some Gourmet pate as Monique advised and some Whiskas meat pouches, which I will try to sneak in from time to time.

I'll try to do some night-testing, I'll see how I can manage. I actually cancelled my vacation since getting Suzie on Lantus and regulated was more important, so I am "flying on fumes" myself. Had a stressful year last year, and did not need added stress of Suzie's situation, but, hey, you get what life throws at you. Sometimes my husband stays up later than I do to watch movies, so I'll ask him to do a test before bedtime.

Her values today, so far, are better than yesterday. Seeing that dreaded "HI" has my own stress levels shooting up!!

We held a photo-shoot at lunchtime, am also going to try to insert a picture of Suzie (and hopefully not Andy by mistake!)

thanks!

Maria
 
Hello and welcome to the board :-)

I feed my cats the Felix as good as it looks variety, and all 3 love it, and i feed them the Golden Gourmet as a treat (they ate Fancy Feast back in the states before we moved here)
Thank you for the link to that online Apotheke. They charge about 10 euros less a box for test strips than my local one does.
 
Hi Maria, glad you found your way to LantusLand. Welcome!

You've got great advisors helping you already. One thing I notice in your profile, Suzie free feeds. That's fine, but we usually take food away 2 hours before the preshot tests. That prevents a food spike giving a high reading. If Suzie has been allowed to eat shortly before you do your tests, that could be at least partially the cause of the "Hi" readings. I hadn't seen this mentioned yet, so I don't know if you already are taking the food up.
 
Just wanted to say welcome to lantus land, and I see that Suzie is doing somewhat better, so just listen to the learned people here, and do your best..This is the place to get help, and weare glad you found us... :-D
 
Got hold of some Gourmet Gold, will see later how she likes it, and how she can eat it with no teeth ;-)

Yes, Suzie free-feeds for now, since she was not eating at all up to about a week ago. In effect though, since my house is open plan and I have other cats who just LOVE the smell of the special food Suzie gets, she free-feeds during the night, when I lock her into the bathroom so she can be alone with the food and so I am sure she can access food and keep blood sugar levels up as anti-hypo. During the day when I work (I have a home office), she gets food when I have time to pop up and sit with her while she eats (read : I fend off over-eager civvies, she eats) and in the evening when we are all in the livingroom, she can eat since I keep an eye on things (read : more fending off of over-eager civvies). In essence, I think she eats about 6 times a day or so. Now that she is eating better, I can start to regulate a bit just when she gets food.

Since she is definitely not overweight, but needs to regain lost weight, I don't limit her intake in a day right now, she takes in approx 60g of food. (I weigh the food best I can) (and the 60g beats the pitiful low of 10g per day...)

Does anyone have any tips of where to get hold of Methyl B12 online in Europe?

I'm glad I found you all !

Maria & Suzie
 
try the website I posted to Heather below. This pharmacy is in the Netherlands but delivers all over. I don't know exactly what people are using (I never gave B-12 myself) when I search B 12 I find several available for example

ANKERMANN Tropfen B 12 -in liquid drops
contains 0.05 mg Cyanocobalamin
also contains alchohol so i don't know if thats ok...

There are several others listed too including tablets

Found this which says Methyl b12 from a nutrition shop (perhaps a regular drogerie or reform house) would have it

http://www.yatego.com/nutrio-shop/p...hyl-b-12?sid=10Y1273508242Y0b8c89d592d0c63187

methyl_b12.jpg


it says they are lozenges (to suck on?)

I'm sure if you ask at a health foods store or pharmacy they can find it.
 
Fabulous ! What dose do you give?

I'll look at the sites later, thanks for these, methyl B-12 is the one to use from what I read. Time to go test Suzie's glucose level (bet she can't wait!) :cool:
 
Is there any reason your civvies can't eat the same food as Suzie? Low carb wet food is good for all of them and it made my life considerably easier when I gave both of my cats the same food.

The methyl-B12 I use is 5 mg per capsule. It's a water soluble vitamin so whatever Suzie doesn't need will be excreted in her urine. It's not something that can hurt her.
 
I've got 4 civvies - they'd wolf her food before she had a chance (though the old girl does give them a hiss and a swipe if they get too close!), and it'd be impossible to tell the quantities she eats. :smile: I think I'll first figure out which foods to feed her, experiment in peace with what she likes, how much, etc..., but yes, thanks, it's a thought to feed them on it as well (if I can do without going bankrupt! but with food from Felix, Aldi & Lidl involved, there's a good hope to do this frugally for all)

Managed to post a picture of my little sweetie by the profile on the side. We'd just tested her sugar level at lunchtime. She looks a bit grumpy, she wasn't keen on posing, but there she is - all fur & very little cat underneath it all!

I've up-dated her spreadsheet, but to recap today:
AMPS 329, gave her 3.5 IU
+3 270
+6 247
+9 231

This is the first day that her level has not gone up after +6. So either the soft-food feeds today have kicked in already, or the Lantus is doing it's thing?

I guess I should see what her PMPS is and then stick to the 3.5 IU dose? She is on her 4th day of 3.5 IU.

After yesterday's HI's, dare I hope to see a downward trend & maybe even a dose reduction. At what level of glucose should I consider reducing the IU and by how much?

Thanks!

Maria
 
Ooohhhh! She looks like a sweetie! Here is the protocol we use for dose adjustment. In reality, we wait for a dosing advisor to give us the go ahead.
 
Thank you everyone for all the support.

Suzie's PMPS was 251, so gone every so slightly up from the 231 testing. But it looks like from the Lantus protocols that we are still skating in a high-ish range where I needn't worry too much about the dreaded Hypo, so I gave her 3.5 IU, still holding the dose.

Will ask my husband to test her as late as possible (he goes to bed later than I do) so we get one nighttime reading at least, and then pop her into the bathroom for the night with food so that she can eat during the night without the other cats stealing it from her.

Time for me to go feed my civvies, and then head for bed myself, thanks again for all the "hand-holding" today !

Maria & Suzie
 
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