? 5/10 Asia Have a shot at diagnosing my cat (PLEASE)

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Stacy & Asia

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/5-8-asia-8-92-10-357-0-1r-11-r1-328.195280/

Yay! We have our internet back, for now, it’s been up and down.

Just cruising along trying to figure out a working L dose to use with the R and still trying different things with the R to see what is most effective for the time being.

While I don’t know exactly what is going on with Asia, I know she is in more pain than usual. I’ve had to up her bupe and I feel like it makes more sense to dose TID for now, which is what I did with the start of the kidney infection. That certainly can have an impact on her numbers. Problem is, lessening the pain does nothing to fix what is causing the pain. Pancreatitis? Kidney/bladder infection (which shouldn’t be as she’s being treated for it)? Teeth? Something else entirely?

Speaking of pain @LizzieInTexas it seems every time I’m near running out of canna companion caps and I go to reorder, they are out of stock of pretty much everything. This is the 2nd or 3rd time it’s happened to me. Has this been a problem for you too?

What I wouldn’t give to be able to do that dental for her and get rid of those last 2 teeth so that worry was off my list. :( With the naked eye, they appear fine, but we all know that doesn’t mean much.
 
I'm sorry Asia is in pain and you've had to increase her bupe. I hope that helps her feel better. Hopefully you can balance everything out and keep her feeling better. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I hope you can figure out what is causing Asia to feel unwell!
Is she eating ok?

Yes, she’s eating fine, everything else seems fine. I can tell when she’s in pain because she squints her eyes more instead of them being bright and open. I increased her bupe last night and she was happy and playful and loving, but it wasn’t too much because too much makes her very saucer eyed. It’s a complete mystery. Her BGs are still pretty wacky so that tells me something is going on, just don’t know what.
 
Yes, she’s eating fine, everything else seems fine. I can tell when she’s in pain because she squints her eyes more instead of them being bright and open. I increased her bupe last night and she was happy and playful and loving, but it wasn’t too much because too much makes her very saucer eyed. It’s a complete mystery. Her BGs are still pretty wacky so that tells me something is going on, just don’t know what.
By any chance is she dehydrated? I know the look you're speaking of...I see it on Allen's face sometimes.
 
I've been watching Asia and the R experiment. Looks like it's going good and also glad you reduce the L. Just curious...what is the dose of bupe you give Asia? I'll be giving it to Leo for some time and they recommend .01ml. Last time I though it was too much and reduced it to .05ml. If they could only talk but sounds like you are keeping Asia comfortable and happy!
 
I've been watching Asia and the R experiment. Looks like it's going good and also glad you reduce the L. Just curious...what is the dose of bupe you give Asia? I'll be giving it to Leo for some time and they recommend .01ml. Last time I though it was too much and reduced it to .05ml. If they could only talk but sounds like you are keeping Asia comfortable and happy!

L dose is frustrating me, I think it’s the right dose, but I need to get a low pre shot to verify and that has been eluding me even with R since I reduced from 1 unit. Grrrr!

Did they recommend 0.1mL and you reduced to 0.05mL? I think that’s what you meant. Asia is about 10 pounds and my vet initially prescribed 0.1mL every 12 hours, it was too much (saucer eyes) and I reduced to 0.075mL (25% less). That worked for a good while and then she needed 0.1mL again. I started using canna pills and it augmented the pain relief such that I could cut back to 0.075mL of bupe. When she has more pain, I can tell the dose doesn’t last the full 12 hours, rather than up the 12 hour dose, I just give the same dose or perhaps a smidge more every 8 hours instead of every 12. I tried giving a bit less every 8 hours thinking more frequency= smaller dose (like with insulin), nope, it doesn’t work that way, she was in pain, save yourself the trouble.

I have no reason to be conservative if she is in pain as she doesn’t get constipated from bupe or have any other side effects that I’ve noticed. I’d rather her have too much one time and correct it the next time, than not give her enough and have to reel the pain back in. If you are able to titrate the dose yourself (which I did even when they gave me prefilled syringes, I used an insulin syringe to extract what I didn’t want in that dose and added the extracted amount to a reserve tank oral syringe), you could always start out smaller and if you know it’s not working, give the amount to make up the difference within the hour. The effects should be relatively immediate to see.

Hope Leo is eating on his own now and comes home today. Glad this is behind him and no more tooth pain to worry about ever again! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
By any chance is she dehydrated? I know the look you're speaking of...I see it on Allen's face sometimes.

Yes that look! I hate it, but I’m very thankful I have pain meds and I can do something about it other than watch her suffer.

Hmmm...that’s a tough question to answer. She has CKD so low level dehydration is part of the game. Her scruff bounces back just as quickly as pristine health Toki. I add a ton of water to her food, but the problem is her urine is so dilute, she pees the water out within 5 minutes of drinking it (seriously). I have a refractometer and I can check her USG at home, it’s always very dilute, she can’t concentrate her urine hardly at all and that has been the case pretty much since her diabetes diagnosis. There isn’t much I can do about it. Sometimes I give her heavy cream hoping that because it takes a little longer to digest with fat and protein, it will do a better job to rehydrate. But it’s not ideal to give her often.
 
Had an emergency visit with Asia to our vet today.

Asia has been having something going on. Recurrence of the kidney infection or a UTI, I think one of those is true based on pee pee pants going away with antibiotic treatment. But unlike the first kidney infection treatment where her BG returned to status quo in 7 days, it hasn’t been the case here. I still think she has a UTI or kidney infection because the antibiotics stopped the pee pee pants, but I think she has something else going on too which may or may not be related.

She has been having more pain recently, as I’ve stated earlier. Today she was just laying around and then she started making her “ow, help me I’m in distress” meow, which I’ve only heard 2 or 3 times in almost 22 years, but it’s pretty unmistakable that’s exactly what it means. She seemed like she may have been “turtled” flipped over enough such that she couldn’t right herself, I tried to help her up. She laid back down and stretched herself out as if to relieve pressure or discomfort, then something in her abdomen started to spasm. It did not look like a heart/funky breathing thing, it looked like a violent muscle spasm, I have it on video. I pet her side and she made the help me cry again, some pain in her abdomen somewhere.

I immediately gave her more bupe which was about 7 hours after her last dose, she’s getting it every 8 hours at the moment. She got up and went to her food dish, I gave her some food. She walked with some ataxia like she was trying to go straight but her whole body was veering left. She ate a couple bites of food and then went to lay on my daughter’s bedroom floor, which has recently been her “I don’t feel awesome” spot, not to be confused with the “this is really bad” sick spot which involves hiding behind something or under the bed. I called my vet to see if I could come in right away, gave her cerenia and grabbed all of her stuff. I guess the bupe kicked in by this time and she was acting more normal, went back to eat the rest of her food and then yelled at me for more food, I gave her more food.

She was 10.4 (pounds) at her heart echo appointment, she was 10.11 at the vets today. I was concerned with fluid or something in her abdomen, she keeps gaining weight despite not getting more food. I mentioned maybe pancreatitis, I showed my vet the video of her yelling and the abdominal spasm, didn’t get the ataxia on video. They did a couple X-rays, nothing funky, no fluid, pancreas was clearly defined (a good thing), not constipated, stomach was EMPTY (she had just eaten two helpings, two tablespoons, of food too, that threw me for a loop). No gas, bladder looked fine, no masses. X-ray told us nothing other than everything looks okay. In house labs (chem 15) didn’t reveal anything significant, electrolytes were good, BUN was down, creatinine didn’t run so we sent it out. Basically, blood work showed nothing of note. She also sent out for a PLI, she thinks that number with Asia’s symptoms is clinically significant. Their ultrasound tech was not in today.

Vet doesn’t know what’s going on, I don’t know what’s going on, she suspects pancreatitis, but Asia is eating fine, no bathroom problems, she had acid tummy barf this morning, but I didn’t give her cerenia since Sunday, so that’s not unusual. I think it could be pancreatitis too, but...I asked if the ataxia would be related to pancreatitis and she said no. I asked if it could be neurological or if it wasn’t what could explain that and the spasm and the pain/cry. She said possibly a stroke or a clot. That would make more sense to me. She had a mini episode of this last week, I thought maybe she was having a symptomatic hypo, but her number was in the 60s. I gave her some food and bupe and she was back to normal in short order just like today.

I told vet I’m not leaving her overnight anywhere to sit in a cage and be scared and hooked up to things, if it comes to that I will make a more humane decision, but whatever I could do non-invasively to help her without leaving her somewhere alone, I’m open to it. I’m usually very stoic in moments of needing to use my brain and think fast, but I told her these things with uncontrolled tears running down my face because I thought this is the end of the road. She said it’s not that time, not to worry, we could try steroids and there were others things to do, it wasn’t at that point yet. She said give her bupe, keep her out of pain, give it every 6 hours if I need to. Call tomorrow to get the results emailed from IDEXX and that she would call me when she’s back at work on Monday.

I’m nearly a grand poorer, I think it’s going to be a long weekend. I’m not sure the PLI or creatinine is going to tell us much. Sometimes recently when I pet her side, I feel something, think small water balloon, but it moves out of the way as I pet her and I can’t find it again. She loves belly rubs, but sometimes recently when I pet her tummy, I know it bothers her because she furiously licks and bites her paws when she’s bothered and she’s done that a few times. Her ataxia episode it looked like her potbelly was markedly popped out more on the left side than the right.

Anyone want to take a shot at what could be going on here? Or things I can do or look for? It’s a whole lot of guesswork as the labs aren’t telling much, vet said we can do another ultrasound next week. Next week seems far away. I’m worried.

ETA: vet also mentioned something with the ultrasound and lymph nodes, taking a sample, not a biopsy, but a sample.
 
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Oh, I wish I had ideas, but the only thing I could even guess at is maybe gas pain? I would think if pain was bad enough that it could cause some ataxia.

Piling on vines and prayers...
 
Stacy , I totally agree with you about not leaving her anywhere . She needs to be home with you , being with her, loving on her . No real insight to give .. in situations like this I try Rescue Remedy just to calm them . My heartfelt prayers go out to you both , that she will rally :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
We have nine cats; i.e., 36 paws crossed for Asia to be feeline fine.

it seems every time I’m near running out of canna companion caps and I go to reorder, they are out of stock of pretty much everything. This is the 2nd or 3rd time it’s happened to me. Has this been a problem for you too?
Yes! I was excited to get in on the 35% off recently, because I kept pouncing on 30% off whenever it came up and missing out because they were out of stock. ... No, wait--I use Canna-Pet not Canna Companion. But same sitch.
 
Poor Asia and you. Smokey ate through his p'titis,never lost his appetite so it is possible to have it. When Olive's abdomen was so hard and distended she would constantly roll from side to side. She was clearly uncomfortable. Even her face showed it. The gabapentin helped tremendously. It might be a thought to try it. Since her numbers have come down she is so much more comfortable she doesn't need it anymore. Hugs and no worry vines sent your way.
 
Oh, I wish I had ideas, but the only thing I could even guess at is maybe gas pain? I would think if pain was bad enough that it could cause some ataxia.

Piling on vines and prayers...

Gas would have showed up in the X-ray I would think? It’s not gas, she isn’t bloated. She’s had gas before, it’s room clearing. :eek:
 
To me it reads like a TIA episode.
Other thought is could there be a bit of a hernia in play.

That seems very plausible, I just read up a bit on it instead of asking you “what’s TIA?” :p

Ugh! I should have had them check her blood pressure today. I wish she would have suggested it. :banghead:

Hernia, hmm... also seems likely, one of the places she is having pain, I said “what’s in here” and she said nothing, fat. It’s the undercarriage tummy area which droops down. It feels like there is something in there sometimes. Very much could be hernia, although it’s been like that for some time and didn’t show up on the last ultrasound.

Thanks for the ideas! :bighug:
 
Poor Asia and you. Smokey ate through his p'titis,never lost his appetite so it is possible to have it. When Olive's abdomen was so hard and distended she would constantly roll from side to side. She was clearly uncomfortable. Even her face showed it. The gabapentin helped tremendously. It might be a thought to try it. Since her numbers have come down she is so much more comfortable she doesn't need it anymore. Hugs and no worry vines sent your way.

That’s good to know, everything I read says they stop eating. She’s eating just fine, still in piggy mode. She always lays on her left side, I read once it has something to do with if they are left handed, er pawed, or right. It took her a long time to hunker down after her episode, she squatted like she was going to poo on the floor, but she was just figuring out how to lower herself without pain, I think. The bupe definitely helps her pain, and she feels better in general in lower numbers, but that’s been a struggle recently, maybe pain, maybe the every 6-8 hours will help with that.
 
Arthritis? Bupre would help with pain, I don't know if it helps with inflammation if that's the cause.

It wasn’t her arthritis that time (I don’t think), I’m guessing it was whatever belly pain she was having. Her arthritis is pretty well managed between the bupe and Adequan now, she walks less like a dinosaur and more like a cat.

NSAIDS and cats really don’t mix. It’s so frustrating. Metacam, Onsior or nothing. Someone said here cerenia has some anti-inflammatory properties, I hope that’s true, she gets that.
 
I read once it has something to do with if they are left handed, er pawed, or right. .

Ty is definitely left pawed

I know the USA loathes Metacam with a vengance but Europe and Australasia use it for cats & Ty has had no probs with it. It is a very small dose.

Ty walks like he has a peg leg. Can hear his weird little 4 beat thump all around the house.
 
Does Asia have an 'off' switch for food? Geriatrics often lose the sense of being full. Is she gorging herself and then needing to stretch out .
 
Ty is definitely left pawed

I know the USA loathes Metacam with a vengance but Europe and Australasia use it for cats & Ty has had no probs with it. It is a very small dose.

Ty walks like he has a peg leg. Can hear his weird little 4 beat thump all around the house.

I read your thread about it and other studies, it seems the major problems were with dose amount. More is more in the USA, don’t you know? :p Google “double big gulp” if you don’t believe me. :joyful:
 
I know it's so frustrating. Sounds like maybe TIA. Phoebe had a similar episode months ago. Treatment was 7 days of steroids. Vet said might be neuro, or the narrowing in her spine. She is ate up with severe arthritis. Everywhere except her neck. I wish you luck and hope she finds relief. Head bumps and scritches.
 
Gas would have showed up in the X-ray I would think? It’s not gas, she isn’t bloated. She’s had gas before, it’s room clearing. :eek:
When Rex was gassy, the gas blocked the view of her intestines because they were full. It showed up better with an ultrasound.

Then again, humans get gas pain spikes. I know mine hurt like hell sometimes .

Im sorry Asia doesn't feel good. Hopefully answers can be found soon :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Does Asia have an 'off' switch for food? Geriatrics often lose the sense of being full. Is she gorging herself and then needing to stretch out .

She can’t really gorge herself because I feed her at select times and measured amounts of food. She doesn’t always eat all her food gone though, sometimes she leaves a bit and comes back later. She used to only take dainty nibbles here and there. Not so these days. The fact that the double portion of food I was guilted to give her today was out of her stomach come the X-ray astounds me! I can’t figure it at all. Goes through her right quick it seems.
 
I know it's so frustrating. Sounds like maybe TIA. Phoebe had a similar episode months ago. Treatment was 7 days of steroids. Vet said might be neuro, or the narrowing in her spine. She is ate up with severe arthritis. Everywhere except her neck. I wish you luck and hope she finds relief. Head bumps and scritches.

Vet did mention steroids and I must say they are sounding appealing, although I cringe to think what that will do to her BG. Damage this to save that, that’s medicine these days to me. :(

Did it only happen the once? Was it quick and over as soon as it came, like with Asia? That’s the weirdest part.
 
Vet did mention steroids and I must say they are sounding appealing, although I cringe to think what that will do to her BG. Damage this to save that, that’s medicine these days to me. :(

Did it only happen the once? Was it quick and over as soon as it came, like with Asia? That’s the weirdest part.
Yes, P was even worse she flopped on ground and tried to get up but just turned in circles. I helped her up and she was wobbly but steady. Within an hour she was fine.
 
Yes, P was even worse she flopped on ground and tried to get up but just turned in circles. I helped her up and she was wobbly but steady. Within an hour she was fine.

:( That’s horrifying!!! I can’t imagine the panic. Poor Phoebe. I’m glad it passed and didn’t happen again.

The help me cries rip my heart out, she looks right at me when she does it like she’s saying “do something”. Ugh.
 
Gosh these cats get right into the heart of us. I can imagine. Phoebe didn't cry out but made the silent meow help. She only sings to the toaster oven these days. :)
 
OK. Some of these you and your vet have probably already ruled out. Just going to throw ideas out there that you may want to discuss with your vet - some are clearly going to be more likely than others, and it may still be something else entirely. TIA is a possibility - maybe if you can get Asia's BP checked at her next vet visit, it might help to rule that in or out. As someone already mentioned, p'titis doesn't always cause loss of appetite, so I wouldn't necessarily rule that out entirely either. Other possibilities...kidney stones, deep-seated kidney infection (which could take 6 weeks or so of antibiotics to get rid of completely), arthritis in her neck/shoulder area which might cause pain if she lays or rolls on her back, IBD (though you'd expect to see other symptoms really), constipation/obstipation/blockage, excess stomach acid (you'd need either famotidine, ranitidine or omeprazole for that rather than Cerenia but it might also explain why she always seems hungry as some cats with excess acid eat to take the edge of the feeling), electrolyte imbalance (some of those can cause almost any symptom going), skeletal issues from secondary hyperparathyroidism (secondary to CKD generally - not common in cats, but I'm throwing out everything I can bring to mind here), seizures, IVDD (intervertebral disc disease - again less common in cats than in dogs, but does show up occasionally in cats).
 
I'm sorry Stacy, I wish I could help, if it comes and goes, that must mean something? How was her breathing at the time, facial expressions, eye movement? It's so hard to guess from the other side of a computer, just throwing out some things I've seen in the past. How is Miss Asia feeling tonight?
 
Just hugs. Lots of them for you, and scritches for dear Asia.

The hernia hypothesis is tempting. I had a hernia several years ago and it did move around depending on whether I was sitting, standing, or lying down. It was "soft", not hard. It didn't hurt at all, but it was weird and so I went to the doctor and was told it was a hernia. (shows you how much I know about medical issues!) Sending Asia more beautiful vines for feeling better.
 
OK. Some of these you and your vet have probably already ruled out. Just going to throw ideas out there that you may want to discuss with your vet - some are clearly going to be more likely than others, and it may still be something else entirely. TIA is a possibility - maybe if you can get Asia's BP checked at her next vet visit, it might help to rule that in or out. As someone already mentioned, p'titis doesn't always cause loss of appetite, so I wouldn't necessarily rule that out entirely either. Other possibilities...kidney stones, deep-seated kidney infection (which could take 6 weeks or so of antibiotics to get rid of completely), arthritis in her neck/shoulder area which might cause pain if she lays or rolls on her back, IBD (though you'd expect to see other symptoms really), constipation/obstipation/blockage, excess stomach acid (you'd need either famotidine, ranitidine or omeprazole for that rather than Cerenia but it might also explain why she always seems hungry as some cats with excess acid eat to take the edge of the feeling), electrolyte imbalance (some of those can cause almost any symptom going), skeletal issues from secondary hyperparathyroidism (secondary to CKD generally - not common in cats, but I'm throwing out everything I can bring to mind here), seizures, IVDD (intervertebral disc disease - again less common in cats than in dogs, but does show up occasionally in cats).

Thanks April. I wish I had thought to get a BP today, not that it would be super accurate as she was stressed, but still. I will take some of these that we haven’t ruled out and add it to my list.
 
I hope you get a tech who's willing to explore a little.

When Shadow had hers, I was in the room too and got to see. She had nodes on her spleen, thickened intestinal walls. But other organs looked normal according to them.
It's good to have someone who explores all the possibilities not just one area.
This should give you a direction at least.
I know pancreatitis shows up with the right test even tho' they don't really know that much so far.

but pancreas, liver, spleen, intestine, stomach, kidney....
ultrasound won't give you all the answers but it sure helps point you in the right direction.
 
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