5/1-Racci-AMPS-136,+7-73,PMPS-236-Vet Update

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MelanieAndRacci

MelanieAndRacci

Member Since 2010
Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=69941

We went to the vet today & Racci had an exam, shave, haircut, brushing, nailclip, weigh-in.

The vet doesn't want her to have the Adequan right now because it's a deep muscle injection and if her pain is nerve pain from the neuropathy, it will make it worse. She wants her to use chondroitin instead and lose weight & wants to see her again in a month. One of the things she suggested that the crying in her sleep could be is sleep apnea which is fairly common in overweight cats, especially since she has asthma.

She said right now the most important thing is for her lose weight. I can't believe Racci gained weight on wet food! :lol: She also wants me to bring Racci down to 3u and try to get her to eat only the 2 carb or close to it food. No more of her favorite Core. The vet figures with only the 2 carb food she could do well on the 3u and also to eat 20% less & only test 3x a day. Poor Racci!

The vet assistants who shaved and cut her fur had entirely too much fun with it. :mrgreen: I could hear them laughing as Racci tried to get them and playfully arguing about what they could save and what they would shave because her fur was too pretty to take off. When they saw how thick and long her stomach was they decided to shave that part and shaved the crotch area like I had asked but they left much too much on the legs and thighs where I really wanted it taken down short or shaved but by the time I saw her at the end she was so stressed I couldn't send her back for more. She was already doing that open-mouthed breathing and in fact did it all the way home as I talked to her and pet her trying to calm her down. I'll have to call and ask them to finish at n/c for me next month when she goes. Meanwhile that was one of the main areas I told them about and they left the knot! Grrrrr! It is better than before so I may be able to cut it when shes asleep though. I haven't gotten a good look at the other upper thigh yet, she's sleeping on that side now.

Poor Racci was stressed to the max, starving, thirsty, tired and needed the litter box so everything has been taken care of except the sleep, she's working on that now. Basically I still don't have an answer, just another suggestion but I'll start the chondroitin, put a pillow on this mat for her, put Racci on a diet and start lessening her dose & food serving size and see what happens.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 5/1-Racci-AMPS-136,+7-73-Vet Update

First, I'd encourage you to read the section of Dr. Lisa's site on feline obesity. She will give you guidelines for safe weight loss and how much food to reduce. You may want to look around (e.g., EBay, Craigslist) for a baby scale so you can monitor Racci's weight. Cutting back on some of the carbs may help. Cutting back on calories will help more when it comes to weight loss.

I would still encourage you to stick with the protocol as far as dose. Until you know how Racci responds to a change in the carbs, you could end up in higher numbers by cutting back on her dose.
 
Re: 5/1-Racci-AMPS-136,+7-73-Vet Update

Hi Sienne,

I agree with you on both statements, not to mention the fact of how much Racci bounces when her dose changes. She was bouncing for over a week this last time because she had two dose changes in a month. If I change her dose that quickly again, she would be bouncing for a month! Her weight really does need to get under control though and it is true that when she eats the 2% carbs alone, she can take a smaller dose and still be lower IF she's not bouncing. She just settled into this new dose at 3.3u though and only stopped bouncing a couple of days ago. I need to give her at least a couple of to 3 weeks on this dose before thinking of changing it. I will probably make the appt for 2 months rather than one if I see that she can go that low.

I've had really bad luck with Ebay & don't trust them or Craigs List. I'll see what I can do about finding a scale that works for her tho & check the Dr. Lisa's link. There has to be a close-out or someone around here that has one suitable. I can use my scale if I have another person to read it for me by holding her until I find one. I can't believe she's over 20 lbs! No wonder I can't carry her in her carrier!

Thanks, Sienne.
 
Re: 5/1-Racci-AMPS-136,+7-73-Vet Update

Poor Racci, she has had a tough day and deserves her nap.

Here is Dr. Lisa on safe weight loss rate:
Safe Rate of Weight Loss

Please understand that your overweight cat took months to get into his current condition and that it will take months to safely lose the weight. This is not a race but it is critical for you to stay the course and not give up.

A safe rate of weight loss is 1 - 2% of their current body weight per week.

  • For example, if your cat weighs 20 pounds, he can safely lose up to ~6 ounces per week. (20 pounds X16 ounces/pound = 320 ounces. 2% of 320 = ~ 6 ounces.)

    1% would be 3 ounces per week - or 3/4 pound/month.

As your cat loses weight, the amount of weight that he should lose each week will decrease.

For example, if your cat is down to 16 pounds, his weight loss should slow to ~2.5 -5 ounces each week which represents 1-2% of 16 pounds.

How Much Should I Feed?

I cannot stress this enough - I can give you a formula that will provide an approximation of the optimal caloric intake for a safe weight-loss program but the bottom line is that you need to weigh your cat every 3-4 days to make sure that he is not losing weight too rapidly - or not losing weight at all.

Every cat is different in terms of how they metabolize food and their caloric needs.

Also, as stated above, pay attention to his top line (back bone area) and the back of his head for signs of excessive loss of muscle mass.

There are two ways to arrive at a starting figure for the amount of calories to be fed.

First method:

The most accurate way is to calculate how many calories your cat is currently eating to maintain his not-so-svelte figure. Then take 80% of those calories as a starting point. Check the bag of dry food that you are feeding and see if it lists the calories/cup. Most dry foods do list the calorie content on the bag but canned foods do not. See this chart for calorie amounts for various dry foods. See this chart to see if the canned food that you are currently feeding is listed.

Second method:

Since most people free-feed dry food, the amount of calories consumed in a day is not known. In this case, figure out what you think your cat *should* weigh and plug that number into this formula:

  • Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

Most female cats should weigh a nice, lean 10 -11 pounds. Most male cats should fall into the 11 -13 pound range.

  • Using an optimal body weight of 12 pounds as an example, we come up with 233 calories/day as a starting point.

[13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233​

This formula provides a very generous starting point (usually far too generous) so be aware that some (most) cats will not lose weight when eating the number of calories generated by this formula. I would suggest feeding according to this formula for 2 weeks and then re-evaluating the caloric needs based on the cat's weight loss, or lack thereof. Of course, if during that period of time your cat is losing weight too rapidly, you will need to increase his calorie intake immediately.

If he is maintaining his weight on the number of calories provided by the above formula, reduce the amount by 20%.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks so much for copying that Ann and doing the math. Racci is a big girl so her optimal weight would be about 13-15 lbs. She's really long & big-boned but with short little legs. :lol: This really was a traumatic day for her. I was really worried coming home. She was doing that open mouthed panting all the way home and it's a long drive with traffic. She's just terrified of the car and going to the vet, not to mention all those strangers handling her. All she wanted was to be home with mom & dad. I feel so badly for her. She's just clinging to me tonight.

How would I figure out the calories per cup from canned food though if they aren't on her list? They always give per can or per kcal.
 
Just a thought, can exercise help with weight control in cats? If we can encourage more "play" time, maybe we can bring down both their weight & our weight a bit! And moderate exercise is always good for mussle trainning too!
Ive noticed some of my cats eat little but still put on weight because they are always sleeping. ;-)
 
Exercise works great, Tortie, in combination with the diet, but Racci is 15 1/2 and doesn't run around any more with neuropathy. We play but quietly. Her version of chasing her cat dancer is laying in one spot and swatting it or catching it in her mouth. :lol: She likes her other toys too if I play with her but she doesn't really get any exercise with them. She just plays lying down or sitting. When she was younger and didn't hurt I could get her to chase me around the house with the cat dancer but not any more.
 
Oh dear Racci you gotta lose some weight but you will feel lots better when you do :smile: Any chance we can see a pic of her new hair do???
 
Hi Serynn,

Sure, I'd ge glad to get a new picture. I don't know how much of a difference you'll actually see unless I get her showin her belly. :razz: I was disappointed that they didn;t take more hair off. Like I said, they were having too much fun brushing her. I peeked in the room and 3 of them were working on different sides of her while she lay on her tummy like a queen and they were giggling away. I got that other knot out last night though so it wasn't as bad as I thought. :) I'll try to get it today and I'm sure I have a suitable before picture. The cats have always been my favorite subjects. :lol:

Almost shot time. Ill be back.
 
MelanieAndRacci said:
Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=69941
The vet doesn't want her to have the Adequan right now because it's a deep muscle injection and if her pain is nerve pain from the neuropathy, it will make it worse.

Melanie & Racci
Click to expand...

I know I'm late here...but FYI, Adequan does not have to be given intramuscularly. It can be given as a SubQ shot, and is effective when administered this way. My senior, Mario, has been on Adequan SubQ injections since last June, and it has been a miracle for his arthritis. When my vet originally recommend we give the adequan as a SubQ, I was confused because everything I found said it needed to be given IM. But, I asked over on health, and found that a number of people here do give it as a SubQ. It really, truly does work as a SubQ...I guess IM is more "old school." I just wanted you to know....
 
Thanks Amy! Everything I've read said intramuscularly also. I will tell my vet. Do you have any idea if there is research on that?

Melanie
 
I don't know if there is any actual printed research, at least as far as us "lay people" go. But my vet is very thorough and very current, and she's the one who told me from the get-go that we'd be doing the shots subQ, which surprised me. If you post over on health (or even do a search over on health), you may find more solid evidence.
 
I am so glad she is home & with you & out of the vets!! If he wanted you to have chrondroitin, did he mention Dasuquin?? It is chrondroitin & other GOOD ingredients and is sold by some vets & on line--I get it from vet depot--It is the next generation of cosequin & does well with Moonie--no side effects..all natural..
I know you got good advice here, so hopefully, Racci will be on Kitty Weight Watchers :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe we could start a chapter here :lol: --
No really I am so glad she will be OK... Hope this all falls into place & she gets better & better--Hugs & Love from us!!
 
Amy, I think I'll do some googling of Adequan subq also and see if I can find any papers on it. My vet does better with proof.

I'm going to bring her the Protocol and link to Rand's site also so she can see it herself. She sees the effects and likes them but still doesn't understand the basis of lowering or raising doses. She was frustrated when she couldn't convince me that the fructosamine was better than my way or that I could just change her dose right away though I agreed with her that she would go down on nothing but the 2%.

Roni, I did do some homework on the Dasuquin & Chondroitin when, I think it was Julie told me it helped her baby, and that is what I want to get her. did that one have the sprinkles too? I have to get that and her flovent ordered today.

I'm really happy that it turned out nothing could be found without sonograms or xrays also. Hopefully, it will go away and I won't have to go the extra steps. The vet didn't think it necessary. She felt she was moving alright, all p's in place, constipation is normal at her age and size, her walk is better than it was and her infection all cleared up. The only thing she was worried about was her weight. Her weight is also putting a strain on her legs and back as she pointed out and is no help to her asthma.

A kitty weight watchers would be a great idea! I love it! Do we have a lot of overweight kitties? We could do weigh-ins every few weeks and compare notes on the best ways to go about it. :smile:
 
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