5/1 Latte AMPS-277, PMPS-302 (Vet Recommends "R")

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carolynandlatte

carolynandlatte

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Last Night:
PMPS-227
+5.5-257
AMPS-277
+1-276
Yesterday:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13317

Latte is not feeling great. I gave her the orbax (a/b) last night. The final straw (after seeing blood on pee pad, peeing twice while trying to clean rear, in/out box) was when she stood next to her box and peed. Didnt even try to get in. We have been through this before, and I was not about to cause her to have a miserable night of dribbling bloody pee. Because I gave the a/b we will not be able to do a full u/a and c/s. Im okay with that choice for now.

She is not eating much at all this a.m. I can also tell she is terribly constipated. In/Out of box, little balls of dry poo. After all she ate yesterday a.m., she should have much greater substance. I may give her a little extra lactulose this afternoon. The a/b could be contributing to lack of appetite. I dont think the orbax is nearly as bad as the clavamox on her system tho.

I still dont know how Im going to clean her rear. Every time I try she pees herself. Kind of defeats the purpose, ya know? Im paranoid of it being exposed and getting an infection, tho. I did get some of the shea butter on a small area last night. Hopefully we can try again later today. Im suppose to clean it a few times/day. :YMSIGH: Ive always called her 'cute but' (she has a little wiggle in her walk). Right now Im having a hard time calling her that...it aint so cute without the fur! :? :lol:

I bet she has a flat yeller day. After all, I am home to do a full curve! LOL Why would she show me the goods?! :lol: Thats okay. Flat yeller last night and even today would be okay. Thats an improvement over the last two weeks.

Hope everyone has a great Saturday!
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

Hi Carolyn, It sounds like a bit of a challenging Saturday for you and Latte. Here's hoping the a/b works and that Latte will be more comfortable. Have you thought of trying a compress of saltwater on Latte's tender skin. I've always found that it works very well on small abrasions and as a mouth rinse for dental things. It certainly has healing and cleansing powers. Just a thought.
Have a good day and I hope that your kitty will feel better soon. Stu sends Latte lots of love.

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

(((Carolyn & Latte))) :YMHUG:
I wish I could make it all better :YMSIGH:
Please feel better soon lil lady...
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

Sending lots of hugs and love to you both.... :YMHUG:

Roni & Moonie suggested Hibiclens to me...it's a skin cleanser. Not sure if it's good to seal in the skin with an ointment type thing.
KWIM? Whenever I put an ointment on either o my two, they work furiously until they can clean it all off! :roll: I think something like Epsom Salts with water or the Hibiclens might be something to try...
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

Poor little girl...and poor you, ((((Carolyn))))) I hope the abs work quick and you see improvement soon.
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

Bless your hearts. I hope the ab works quickly so that she won't feel like going everywhere. Hope you get some time to relax with your angel. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

Whew! What another day over here!
Numbers stink!
AMPS-277 (pred at +1)
+2- 276
+4- 342
+6.25- 280
+10.25- 337
PMPS-302 (pred at +1)

Increased dose from s2.0 to 2. Theoretically a drop should not send her from her lower #'s shown on this dose to numbers low enough to freak me out. But who knows. What I do know is this infection will NEVER clear ab's or not, unless I can get her down.
confused_cat QUESTION: How soon can I increase again, if she stays put like this? Could I increase another drop in a few cycles or is it best to wait 6? My schedule is pretty full next week, so I cant be super aggressive. But she does HAVE to start coming down.

Vet called:
Culture filled with tons of stuff...so contaminated. Wants a recheck Monday or Tuesday after she is done with the 5 days of a/b's. This is when we will do full u/a, c/s (what should have been done yesterday if her darn bladder had been full).
confused_cat Question: Is there a length of time I should wait between last dose of a/b and u/a, c/s in order to make sure we get true results? 24hrs or less seems too soon. I cant afford to keep redoing them.

Vet also complimented me on ss. HER recommendation (which floored me) was to use 'regular' , aka "R" insulin along with her lantus. This has been discussed between myself and carolyn/spot, but seemed she was not comfortable because of Latte's complications. It might be worth opening the discussion again with those who have experience and may be willing to guide us. The vets recommendation on a dose was a lot more than I would ever try (1/2 unit). I was pleased, however that she was open and offering the suggestion. Today would have been a good day to use it on Latte. She did emphasize that I really need to keep her well under 300, on a regular basis to prevent these infections.

Latte was super restless today, which kept me from doing anything but laying in bed covering my head with a pillow as I tried to nap. Lots of howling, up/down, in/out LB, drinking, and even picking up on her eating. Im not sure what that was all about...high numbers=more water, more water+infection =more frequency to pee?!?! I think she was also feeling a little better, as she attempted under cover time with me a half dozen times. Funny thing is, not ONCE did she stick her butt in my face, as she had earlier in the week. Ya think she was trying to tell me something this week?!?! ohmygod_smile

She only had one accident, that I know of - when I got under the piano to give her shot tonight. She also has a new way of peeing! She gets THREE legs in her box, lifts the 4th leg up (like a dog) and pees. Really nice! :lol: I guess thats one way of not soaking her side when peeing in the box.

We had an adventure in the bathtub together. I set her on a pee pad in the tub, me sitting next to her. Buckets of soapy water and rinse water outside the tub. She somewhat cooperated, but appeared more confused. I think I was able to clean her a little better AND get the shea butter on ok. it was all tricky and may, with some practice work out. Quite a production, tho! She really wanted to jump out. I wonder with enough adrenalin, if she could. I also wondered how she would react if she felt trapped. She got many pets inbetween wipes, and lots of "good girl", "brave girl", "I love you's".

Thanks all for the positive thoughts the last few days (weeks, months...). Im not too worked up over this situation, because I know there are things I can do to help. Unlike when she is not eating, or vomiting, and we cant figure out whats going on. She CAN get past this. It will just require lots of patience on my part and understanding. Oh ya, and LOTS of laundering of her blankets, crib pads, etc. :YMSIGH:
 
I like using R because I was always worried about Shadoe's high numbers, and now Oliver's. With all the things you have now to worry about, wouldn't it be nice to be able to cross off high BG numbers from that worry list?

Carolynn had me start with .1u for Shadoe. Since you don't know how Latte may react, best to start as low as that and see. I always think it's better to give too little than too much. You can't take back once given, and what's jojo's line "there's always more insulin where that came from" so if the .1 does nothing, you can always try .25u.

I guess if your vet says it's OK, then you can talk more with Carolynn about the best way to use R for Latte. I sure hope it helps for Latte.
 
I had to almost laugh, but also send my sympathy for the bathtub bathing. At least it worked and it sounds like she tolerated it. You probably don't want to change her litter box now, but I have had really good luck with the Breeze litter box for Blackie. He would pee so much he would step in it and get it stuck to his feet. This new system has totally eliminated that because the pee goes through the pellets to a pd below. Just an FYI if you didn't think the change would be too much.

I know nothing about R, but it sounds like your vet is very supportive. I think Latte missed you when you were working so hard. I hope she continues to get better. Sending Latte healing vines and energies.
 
You might want to post the question about the spacing of the ABs and the UA over on Health.

Jojo may be more accessible via FB if you want information on the use of R. Otherwise, I'd PM Carolyn/Spot. As much as I know is that you start with a small dose, like Gayle indicated. You then curve the R. You want to avoid having the R and Lantus reaching nadir at the same time. I believe that Gayle and others shoot at or very close to their Lantus/Lev shot time. As I understand it, the goal is for the R to bring down the numbers so the long-acting insulin has something to grab on to. I do think it would be helpful for an experienced R user to take a look at Latte's SS since she does have some fast, early drops that are unpredictable.
 
Re: 5/1 Latte AMPS-277

carolynandlatte said:
Vet called:
Culture filled with tons of stuff...so contaminated. Wants a recheck Monday or Tuesday after she is done with the 5 days of a/b's. This is when we will do full u/a, c/s (what should have been done yesterday if her darn bladder had been full).
confused_cat Question: Is there a length of time I should wait between last dose of a/b and u/a, c/s in order to make sure we get true results? 24hrs or less seems too soon. I cant afford to keep redoing them.
Click to expand...

Meowzi's last negative culture from Antech says "False negative results may occur if the patient is or has been on antibiotic therapy within the last 7-10 days."

ETA: See http://catinfo.org/feline_urinary_tract ... nfection__ scroll down to Urine Culture and Sensitivity (C & S), where it explains cultures can be classified three ways. Looks like your vet is taking this approach to assess antibiotic efficacy, but the problem here is there wasn't a positive diagnostic culture before starting antibiotics.
 
hey there! typing as fast as i could to get here.

okay few things...
"What I do know is this infection will NEVER clear ab's or not, unless I can get her down."

sweetie, don't stress out about that. if it is the correct AB, given long enough it will kill the targeted bacteria no matter what "medium" they are growing in. when they do the S part of a C&S they put the test AB's right on the "guaranteed to grow bacteria if there is any" medium that they used and since Orbax worked on that it will work on her spilling some sugar urine.

okay now, 5 days? whoa. why? soooo early! a real UTI need 3 weeks of AB's to get a real good odds of total kill. she is obviously still symptomatic, i would keep her home and continue the AB's and stall that recheck.

"she was restless"
she is in pain. UTI's are painful. i didn't read about any pain meds, is there any bupe happening?

"small hard poops"
up that lactulose! you are under dose if they are like that, how much are you giving now and how many times a day? and do you have an problem getting that sticky stuff in, would miralax work easier for you guys?

if you could answer those while i go look at SS, meet ya back in a couple of minutes....(just wanted to post before you went zzzzzzzzzzz).
 
oh crud i think i missed you, don't see you in list of names across bottom anymore. dangit. great. the slow typist minus one finger is extra slow tonight.

okay well anyways i looked at SS. oh boy. okay if you want to use 0.1 of R i strongly suggest to not shoot it until you get your +4 number in a cycle. no giving it at PS like others do, you have a cat that can drop like a whole whole bunch there before +4 from a high number and R at PS would be a disaster if she is having one of those no downward movement at all cycles. would have to be used only on the cycles where the +4 number shows that cycle is a bust and then you could use R to save the cycle. would give it at +6 of 'bad cycles' at first just to be sure L action is over. there is no rule that says R must be given at PS, but there is a rule that you do not want the basal and bolus insulin nadir'ing at same time.
and as always after giving that first 0.1 unit of R hourly testing has to be done first handful of times you use it to learn what her R cycle is like. there is no way to use bolus insulin successfully without thorough knowledge of it's effect and full cycle -onset/nadir/duration- in your cat. it is powerful stuff and i do insist on those that wish to attempt it one ask me first if it should even be attempted in your cat (there are tons of cats that R is absolutely wrong and dangerous to use!) and two start at 0.1 units and three- do bunch of full R curves (that means from R+1 unit numbers start back up and R cycle is over and done with). four-have a well stocked hypo tool box in same house that has R in it.

okay i have to be somewhere tomorrow, but i'm gonna try my hardest to stop by and see if you answered questions and what your thoughts are tomorrow.....
 
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