5/1 Lana - AMPS 332, +1 414, +3 338, +6 222. Please advice

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Magali & Lana

Magali & Lana

Member Since 2018
Hello.

Two days ago : http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-29-lana-amps-439-2-454-6-495-9-505.194845/

Lana Speadsheets

I don't know what to think about Lana's blood sugar level of these last days.

I stick to 1.5 UI except 1 time at 1.75 because she was passing all the day in red and black values.

She ate same things as the beginning, mostly wet food of Hill's prescription diet m/d and a little of kibbles.
She looks great but a little tired of all of these bounces and drops.

Levels look better at 3 UI. I don't know what to do...

Thank you for your advices.
 
Clearly she is going much lower in the evening cycles than in the day cycles. Is anything different happening during the night? Does she get less food, or does she manage to get contraband food during the day?

Otherwise, what you're seeing seems pretty typical: lower during the night cycle (very common) and bouncing during the day. It will pass.

You are still very early in the sugar dance, don't get discouraged yet! It usually takes at least a few weeks to start to feel like you're getting anywhere.

It's also possible she is feeling tired because her metabolism is finally starting to work again as it should, at times.

At 3UI we don't have quite enough data to say how she was doing. I suspect she might have been going uncomfortably low at times, even though she probably came out fine.

I'm honestly not sure if it's better to stick with 1.5ui some more, or try the 1.75. The reason I am hesitant to advise 1.75 is the drop on 29th evening when you tried to increase, and the fact that you're away from home part of the day for work. I think it's better to play safe, and even though those reds are ugly to see, she does get a bunch of hours in her day in "good/better" numbers in the evening and at night.
 
No she can't get food during the day except hill's kibbles that I let for her and my other cat, Baloo, but when I get back home I can see that they didn't eat all of them (and I don't let a lot of kibbles).

I hope you're right about her metabolism. I really hope that.
 
I think we don't exactly know why cats go lower at night (somebody please correct me if it's wrong). In Lana's case, the difference may be increased by the fact she bounces during the day. Is she more active at night?

I can't remember if she is an outdoor or indoor cat (that could be a factor)?

Today's day cycle seems better than yesterday's, so maybe she's bouncing less. If tomorrow's is still better, that might confirm this hypothesis.

The idea of holding the dose is for two things, as I understand it:

1. with Lantus, you want time for the depot to fill
2. with any insulin, as it's a hormone and not a drug, and in play with complex endocrine equilibriums, something like insulin from injections < = > depot < = > insulin in bloodstream < = > glucose that uses up insulin, for Lantus. As blood glucose starts being less high, other things start happening, and we need to give them time.
 
She's an indoor cat. She stay with me all night long, she sleeps with me, so I would say that she's less active at night.
She's more active during the day, just now she's playing with Baloo.

Today's cycle seems better. At least she's not in red. Do you think I should test her at +6 for example?

Maybe I have to stay at 1.50 for few more cycles and see what happen?
 
I know it’s frustrating to see all those high numbers, but I would be much more concerned if they were all high, and lucky for you, they are not. ;)

Lana isn’t used to the numbers you are trying to bring her back to (healthy, non diabetic cat numbers) and her body is responding accordingly by freaking out and running away from those greens. She went too low on that 1.75. I would stay the course on this dose, give it time to settle. She is going lower at night which can be trying as that’s when we to be sleeping. Today is looking to be a better cycle.

Had you not changed that one dose to 1.75, I would say it would be a good time to increase, but Lantus is a depot insulin, and for that reason we don’t see the real effect of a dose change until a few cycles later, usually a minimum of 6 cycles. This is when the depot stabilizes and we know the numbers that are happening are a result of that dose and not the influence of a previously higher dose, a temporarily lower dose, or a skipped shot.

The way to stop all the fluctuations is for Lana to spend more and more time in low blues and greens and for her body to adjust and accept that is okay. You’re on cycle 3 of 1.5 consistently, let’s reevaluate after cycle 6 and see where she is then.

Another issue that is probably contributing to the fluctuations is the food. Hills m/d wet is a bit higher carb than what we find works best for diabetic cats, we would use that food to bring a cat up from low numbers, but not to eat every day. Find a food with a carb level under 10%. The m/d dry food is absolutely high carb and not the same as the wet. I think you’ll have a better response if you can change her food to low carb wet food and try to feed the same amount at evenly spaced times of the day. Then the food responses should be quite predictable. If you are worried about leaving wet food out during the day or overnight, many of us use automatic feeders and place ice cubes on the food to keep it fresh.

We have a food chart on here that lists foods by carb level and all kinds of factors you might have considerations for like low phosphorous. I’m going to guess most of them are not available in France. I’m going to defer to @Gill & George @Stephanie & Quintus if they know of a list for France or Europe that is low carb food?

Hang in there, Magali, you’re just at the beginning of this journey and there are already promising things happening with Lana, it’s just hard for you to see it until you have a little more time to absorb some of the information. :)
 
Salut Lana,

Je ne sais pas pourquoi certains chats descendent la nuit non plus. Il pourrait s'agir d'un modèle alimentaire différent, d'un niveau d'activité ou d'un autre aspect de leur physiologie différent la nuit.

Voici ma pensée après avoir regardé votre feuille de calcul:

  • Magali aime rebondir
  • quand vous avez eu ces nombres de vert de chaux à la dose de 2 unité une diminution à 1.75 unités aurait été recommandée si vous suivez les directives de Lantus pour la réglementation serrée et cette dose resterait la même pendant 6 cycles
  • vous avez fait plusieurs changements de dose en peu de temps et certains sont en plus grande quantité que 0,25 unités
  • les changements fréquents de dose peuvent interférer avec l'action de dépôt de Lantus et peuvent rendre un chat gonflable plus erratique
  • vous avez eu un numéro de vert citron avec la dose de 1,75 unité récemment, donc je pense que vous devriez être prudent et réduire à 1,5 unités pour l'instant
  • rester à 1,5 unités pour quelques cycles de plus pour voir si Magali descend
  • augmenter à 1,75 unités si vous ne voyez pas plus de jaune ou de bleu après peut-être 2 jours.

Si Magali mange des aliments secs à teneur élevée en glucides au cours de la journée, cela pourrait expliquer les chiffres plus élevés à l'époque.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Lana,

I don't know the reason why some cats go lower at night either. It could be different eating pattern, activity level or some other aspect of their physiology that is different at night.

Here are my thought after looking at your spreadsheet:
  • Magali likes to bounce
  • when you had those lime green numbers at the 2 unit dose a decrease to 1.75 units would have been recommended if you follow the Lantus guidelines for tight regulation and that dose would stay the same for 6 cycles
  • you have made several dose changes in a short time and some are in a larger amount than 0.25 units
  • frequent dose changes can interfere with the Lantus depot action and can make a bouncy cat more erratic
  • you had a lime green number with the 1.75 unit dose recently so I think you should be cautious and reduce to 1.5 units for now
  • stay at 1.5 units for a few more cycles to see if Magali comes down
  • increase back to 1.75 units if you don't see more yellow or blue after maybe 2 days.
If Magali is eating higher carbohydrate dry food during the day that could explain the higher numbers then.
 
Thank you Stacey & Stephanie for your time and advices.

You're right Asia, I only see high numbers even if there is lower numbers too. My bad !

I'm gonna stay with a dose of 1.5 ui as you say and wait until the end of cycle 6.

About food, it's frustrating because it's my vet who gave me those kibbles and it was kinda hard to Lana to accept these kibbles. But I'm thinking about gave her more wet food. However, I have another cat and if I can find kibbles with low carb level, it would be great.

I can't separate them, it's a source of stress when they are not together. I don't think that's a problem if Baloo eat low carb kibbles?

Edit : Thank you Kris too. Even if Lana is the Cat and I am Magali lol

I keep 1.5 ui and I will be patient (even if it's hard :P).
 
Magali said:
I don't think that's a problem if Baloo eat low carb kibbles?

Edit : Thank you Kris too. Even if Lana is the Cat and I am Magali lol
Click to expand...

La nourriture à faible teneur en glucides est la meilleure pour les deux minous. Mes excuses pour avoir mal compris votre nom, Magali. :facepalm::confused:
___________________________________________________________________________

Low carb food is best for both kitties. My apologies for getting your name wrong, Magali. :facepalm::confused:
 
Bellasmom said:
Low carb dry, dr elseys clean protein and young again, if you email them they will send samples
Click to expand...
Thank you but I'm not sure I can find them in France :(

Kris & Teasel said:
La nourriture à faible teneur en glucides est la meilleure pour les deux minous. Mes excuses pour avoir mal compris votre nom, Magali. :facepalm::confused:
___________________________________________________________________________

Low carb food is best for both kitties. My apologies for getting your name wrong, Magali. :facepalm::confused:
Click to expand...

lol It's ok! It made me laugh when I imagine myself eating dry food. :p:D
 
Dry food addiction is a real problem for cats. I think many of us have dealt with it and it becomes extra critical with diabetes in the picture. I had to switch Asia to wet food (raw) a long time ago after she had most of her chewing teeth removed (she was 13). It was not easy and not fun, but I’m so glad I did it. She has been a lot healthier since I did that and some of her getting to age 21 is related to diet, I am certain.
 
Salut Magali,

Je nourris George nourriture qui est inférieure à 1% de phosphore et aussi de bonne qualité de protéines (la pensée actuelle est que les protéines de bonne qualité est OK pour les chats CKD)

J'ai utilisé cette liste pour m'aider à décider quoi acheter, je vis en Espagne, même si c'est une liste du Royaume-Uni la plupart des produits sont fabriqués en Europe et sont disponibles dans toute l'Europe, j'achète en ligne en utilisant Zooplus.es
(il y a un Zooplus.fr)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

j'utilise
Thrive complet
  • poulet
  • saumon et thon
Granata Pet symphonie,
  • poulet
  • Poulet et saumon
Terra Faelis
  • poulet avec courge et herbe à chat
  • dinde aux courgettes et à la camomille
Feringa
  • Poulet à la courge et à l'herbe à chat
(La plupart des variétés de Granata Pet symphonie sont inférieures à 1.% de phosphore)
[QUOTE = "Magali & Lana, poste: 2181832, membre: 23312"] Au sujet de la nourriture, c'est frustrant parce que c'est mon vétérinaire qui m'a donné ces croquettes et c'était assez dur pour Lana d'accepter ces croquettes. Mais je pense à lui a donné plus de nourriture humide. Cependant, j'ai un autre chat et si je peux trouver des croquettes avec un faible niveau de glucides, ce serait génial. [/ QUOTE]

Mon vétérinaire m'a aussi donné exactement la même nourriture, je suis entré en ligne, j'ai lu et je n'ai jamais ouvert le paquet. Il est trop élevé en glucides pour un chat diabétique. La liste ci-dessus a une certaine nourriture sèche qui est inférieure en glucides (c'est assez cher ici en Espagne / c'est le Ziwi Peak) Plus récemment, Thrive a commencé à faire des aliments secs, il devrait être d'environ 10% de glucides il. J'ai envoyé un email demandant les valeurs de Carb, nous verrons si elles répondent.
C'est tout ce que je sais de sec, je n'ai pas fait de recherches parce que je nourris tous mes chats un régime humide maintenant. Sur la liste il y a beaucoup de choix de carb bas, j'utilise Smilla et amionda pour mes chats en plein air et amionda carny pour mes deux chatons d'intérieur. Ils les font en grand format en boîtes de 800g ce qui fonctionne plus économique. Je suis heureux avec la qualité et ce sont des produits de viande seulement.
On dirait que Lana va effacer «le rebond», comment aujourd'hui sa glycémie baisse de façon constante aujourd'hui? Si elle est en bleu ou en jaune au tir pré, je suppose qu'elle va vous donner un autre cycle actif ce soir je ne serais pas surpris si elle est allée en vert ce soir, je pense que tenir la dose pour le moment est une bonne idée , elle est arrivée à 72 la nuit dernière, vous voulez voir si elle peut le faire à nouveau sur cette dose, ou si elle peut même aller plus bas, rester en vert plus longtemps.
Vous pouvez même être confronté à une PS inférieure à la normale, car elle mange de la nourriture sèche et n'est pas sur un régime faible en glucides, je suivrais les directives pour SLGS, vous ne voulez pas tirer n'importe quoi en dessous de 90 et demander de l'aide si c'est plus bas que ce à quoi tu as été habitué.
Les chats passent par des phases, George a traversé une phase de baisse la nuit, puis il a eu une phase de baisse pendant la journée. Qui sait pourquoi, mais les modèles changent.
Une autre chose, il semble qu'elle nettoie ses rebonds assez rapidement.


laissez-moi savoir s'il y a autre chose que je peux vous aider avec
:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Hi Magali,

I feed George food that is below 1% Phosphorous and also good quality protein (current thinking is that good quality protein is OK for CKD cats)

I used this list to help me decide what to buy, I live in Spain, even though it's a UK list most of the products are made in europe and are available throughout europe, I buy on line using Zooplus.es
(there is a Zooplus.fr)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

I use
Thrive Complete
  • chicken
  • salmon and tuna
Granata Pet symphonie,

  • Chicken
  • Chicken and salmon
Terra Faelis
  • chicken with squash and catnip
  • turkey with zucchini and camomile
Feringa
  • Chicken with Squash and catnip
(most of the Granata Pet symphonie varieties are below 1.% Phosphorous)
Magali & Lana said:
About food, it's frustrating because it's my vet who gave me those kibbles and it was kinda hard to Lana to accept these kibbles. But I'm thinking about gave her more wet food. However, I have another cat and if I can find kibbles with low carb level, it would be great.
Click to expand...

My vet also gave me the exact same food, I came on line, did some reading and I never opened the packet. It's too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. The list above has some dry food that is lower in carbs (it's pretty expensive here in spain/ that's the Ziwi Peak) More recently Thrive have started doing dry food, it should be around 10% carb we haven't got an accurate value for it. I have sent an email asking for the Carb values, we will see if they reply.
That's all the dry that I know about, I have not researched it because I feed all my cats a wet diet now. On the list there are many choices of low carb wet, I use Smilla and amionda for my outdoor cats and amionda carny for my two indoor kittens. They do them in large format 800g tins which works out more economical. I am happy with the quality and it are meat only products.
It looks like lana is going to clear 'the bounce' see how today her blood glucose is dropping steadily today?? If she is in blue or yellow at pre shot, I would guess she is going to give you another active cycle tonight I wouldn't be surprised if she went into green tonight, I do think that holding the dose for now is a good idea, she got to 72 last night, you want to see if she can do it again on this dose, or if she may even go lower, stay in green for longer.
You may even be faced with a lower than normal PS, since she is eating dry food and is not on a Low carb diet, I would follow the guidlines for SLGS, you don't want to be shooting anything below 90 and ask for help if it's lower than you have been used to.
Cats go through phases, George went through a phase of going low at night, then he had a phase of going low during the day. Who knows why, but patterns do change.
One other thing, it looks like she is clearing her bounces pretty quickly.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you Gill! Your file will help me for sure. I'll look at it later.
Just one question : Obviously I understand why we need a low carb food and goo quality of protein but what about phosphorous ?

I would like to find a good wet food for Lana and maybe Baloo too but I don't have a lot of money so I'm gonna check what is the best value for money.

The packet is almost done so I can maybe finish all my wet food and pass to an other one. Or give what it rest to Baloo and buy better wet food for Lana. I don't know yet what i'm gonna do but I would like to have the odds in our favor as much as possible.

I leave her alone until next dose at 7.30 pm and I will test her just before the shot. Fingers crossed.

Thank you again. You all helped me a lot.
 
Magali & Lana said:
Thank you Gill! Your file will help me for sure. I'll look at it later.
Just one question : Obviously I understand why we need a low carb food and goo quality of protein but what about phosphorous ?

I would like to find a good wet food for Lana and maybe Baloo too but I don't have a lot of money so I'm gonna check what is the best value for money.

The packet is almost done so I can maybe finish all my wet food and pass to an other one. Or give what it rest to Baloo and buy better wet food for Lana. I don't know yet what i'm gonna do but I would like to have the odds in our favor as much as possible.

I leave her alone until next dose at 7.30 pm and I will test her just before the shot. Fingers crossed.

Thank you again. You all helped me a lot.
Click to expand...

I was just giving phosphorous as an example, foods that are low in phosphorus are ideal for cats with kidney disease. I hope you can find a nice low carb food that she will love. :cat:
 
Magali & Lana said:
what about phosphorous ?
Click to expand...

Cats with kidney disease need a low phosphorus diet, and finding food that is low carb and low phosphorus can be a challenge -- that is why @Gill & George was specifying this information.

Magali & Lana said:
I don't think that's a problem if Baloo eat low carb kibbles?
Click to expand...

Not a problem at all. It seems that low carb is a better bet even for a healthy (non-diabetic) cat.
 
Magali & Lana said:
I would like to find a good wet food for Lana and maybe Baloo too but I don't have a lot of money so I'm gonna check what is the best value for money.
Click to expand...


http://www.zooplus.es/shop/tienda_gatos/comida_humeda/animonda_rafine_carny/carny_adult/557220
http://www.zooplus.fr/shop/chats/bo...monda_boites_chat/animonda_boites_chat/556488

Interesting that the same product is more economical in the spanish store:eek:
Good news is even if you are in france you can order from the spanish store, the products are distributed from warehouses throughout europe, I've ordered from UK store because spanish store has not had a product I want for sale.
They work out about 2 euro a tin (from spanish store), tin is big 800g, would feed your two cats for about two days( depending on your cats size). They have smaller tins but these work out a little more expensive.

Bozita is another brand that some other european members use but I have not used it, smaoller tins/tetra packs. the tetra packs are similar in price to the smaller tins of animonda, but the tins are more economical I've heard that they are good quality but I have not used them or researched them.
http://www.zooplus.fr/shop/chats/bo...s_chat/bozita_boites_tetra_recart_chat/302249
http://www.zooplus.fr/shop/chats/bo...ta_boites_chat/bozita_boites_patee_chat/36062
 
Magali & Lana said:
The packet is almost done so I can maybe finish all my wet food and pass to an other one. Or give what it rest to Baloo and buy better wet food for Lana. I don't know yet what i'm gonna do but I would like to have the odds in our favor as much as possible.
Click to expand...
When you decide on a new food, I would recommend you feed them both the same, I don't and at feeding time I have to separate or stand guard. George, my diabetic, eats his food then steals the others if he gets a chance. Because of his kidney disease and age he has low phosphorus the other cats food is not low in phosphorus, so if he does eat some of the other cats food I will not affect his Blood glucose, there are not many choices with low phosphorus, but as long as Lana's kidneys are working properly I would not worry about it at the moment.

We had one member here who was having problems regulating her cat, she had other cats in the house that ate dry HC food, when she changed them all onto the Low Carb wet food so there was no dry food in the house her cat went OTJ (into remission) very, very quickly, in 24hours
Here is the post where it all happened
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=114022

And here is the Spreadsheet, look at Feb 18 2014, this is the first day whole house is free of dry food.
And look what happened on Feb 19th!!
Scooter was probably stealing dry food from the other cats, resulting in raised blood glucose

I would therefore strongly recommend that all your cats go on a LC high protein, wet diet, and as Stephanie says a species appropriate high protein Low carb diet is good for your other cat too.


Lorsque vous décidez d'un nouvel aliment, je vous recommande de les nourrir tous les deux, mais je ne le fais pas et au moment de l'alimentation, je dois séparer ou monter la garde. George, mon diabétique, mange sa nourriture puis vole les autres s'il a une chance. En raison de sa maladie rénale et de son âge, il a une faible teneur en phosphore, la nourriture des autres chats n'est pas pauvre en phosphore, donc s'il mange une partie de la nourriture des autres chats, je n'affecterai pas sa glycémie. Tant que les reins de Lana fonctionnent correctement, je ne m'inquiéterais pas pour le moment.

Nous avions un membre ici qui avait des problèmes pour réguler son chat, elle avait d'autres chats dans la maison qui mangeaient de la nourriture HC sèche, quand elle les changeait tous sur la nourriture humide Low Carb, donc il n'y avait pas de nourriture sèche dans la maison. OTJ (en rémission) très, très rapidement, en 24 heures
Voici le post où tout est arrivé
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=114022

Et voici la feuille de calcul, regardez Février 18 2014, c'est le premier jour toute la maison est libre de nourriture sèche.
Et regardez ce qui s'est passé le 19 février !!
Scooter a probablement volé de la nourriture sèche des autres chats, ce qui entraîne une augmentation de la glycémie

Je recommanderais donc fortement que tous vos chats vont sur une LC riche en protéines, régime humide, et comme Stephanie dit une alimentation riche en protéines faible teneur en protéines faible en glucides est bon pour votre autre chat aussi.
 
Thank you very much Gill!

If it's more economical in spanish store, maybe I'll try to order from it.

I add this on Lana's Spreadsheets but since we were talking about food I try today to give Lana only wet food (except 10 kibbles in the middle of afternoon). I don't know if that explain her blood sugar levels of today and tonight but i'm persuaded that I have to change the way I feed both of them.
I'm gonna try to stay with wet food exclusively. The problem is I'm away for work tomorrow (and others day) and I would like to leave some food in case of low blood sugar. But Baloo likes too much wet food lol.

When you give only wet food, how distribute you the meals ? One meal at the time of each shot and a little during the day?
 
Nice +3 still heading down, I wonder if she will make it to green.
Magali & Lana said:
When you give only wet food, how distribute you the meals ? One meal at the time of each shot and a little during the day?
Click to expand...
When on insulin and if I am home I feed George
main meal at shot
snack at +2 or +3
then another snack at +6/+7

If I was having to go out and leave him in the early part of the cycle, depending on what his numbers were doing I might leave more snacks. So if I felt his blood glucose might drop, then I might leave snacks out at +1 +2 +3+4. I have an automatic feeder that I can set to give him four snacks.

If you look at Georges SS I record all the feeding times there, he is on a very small dose at the moment, he has just come out of remission, has an infection, his blood glucose was creeping up so I started insulin, to keep him in the normal range and keep him well regulated. You will see that sometimes I feed late in the cycle, we sometimes do this with cats on small doses, their pancreas is starting to function and a little snack late in the cycle can stimulate their body to produce endogenous insulin and helps to bring the PS numbers down. But it does not work for cats on bigger doses.


We usually recommend that you try not to feed in the second half of the cycle, because it can slow down the effect of the insulin and cause a big rise in blood glucose at the end of the cycle.

VERY IMPORTANT
make the change to a wet LC diet slowly, removing all the high carb dry food can really make a huge difference to some cats, by doing it slowly you should be able to keep up with insulin requirements, and hopefully taking dose reductions in a calmer manner than if you stop all of a sudden.

Quand sur l'insuline et si je suis à la maison, je nourris George
repas principal au tir
collation à +2 ou +3
puis une autre collation à + 6 / + 7

Si je devais sortir et le quitter dans la première partie du cycle, en fonction de ce que ses chiffres faisaient, je pourrais laisser plus de collations. Donc, si je sentais que sa glycémie pouvait chuter, je pourrais laisser des collations à +1 +2 + 3 + 4. J'ai un chargeur automatique que je peux placer pour lui donner quatre casse-croûte.

Si vous regardez Georges SS, j'enregistre tous les temps d'alimentation, il est en très faible dose pour le moment, il vient juste de sortir de la rémission, il a une infection, son taux de glucose sanguin grimpait et j'ai commencé à prendre de l'insuline. lui dans la gamme normale et le garder bien réglementé. Vous verrez que parfois je me nourris tard dans le cycle, nous le faisons parfois avec des chats à petites doses, leur pancréas commence à fonctionner et une petite collation en fin de cycle peut stimuler leur corps à produire de l'insuline endogène et aide le PS nombres vers le bas. Mais cela ne fonctionne pas pour les chats à des doses plus élevées.


Nous recommandons généralement d'essayer de ne pas donner de nourriture pendant la seconde moitié du cycle, car cela peut ralentir l'effet de l'insuline et provoquer une forte augmentation de la glycémie à la fin du cycle.

TRÈS IMPORTANT
faire le changement à un régime humide LC lentement, enlever tous les aliments secs riches en glucides peut vraiment faire une énorme différence pour certains chats, en le faisant lentement, vous devriez être en mesure de suivre les besoins en insuline et, espérons-le, prendre des doses plus calmes manière que si vous arrêtez tout d'un coup.
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
I agree. But I like to understand the science behind things, and for the moment I think a piece of the wet vs. dry thing is still evading me.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean, what is evading you?

Cat's on dry food end up chronically dehydrated, with their poor thirst reflex they just don't drink enough water to compensate. Chronic dehydration leads to all sorts of other problems.
The dry food is too high in carbs, and cats are obligate carnivores, not enough protein in the regular kibble diet.
The evidence here from many, many cats is that it makes a huge difference when it comes to controlling BG levels.

It makes sense to me that we should feed our cats a diet that resembles most closely, what they have evolved to eat, small prey, regular kibble doesn't come close to that.
 
Gill & George said:
Cat's on dry food end up chronically dehydrated
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Some, but it's not systematic. Some cats don't drink enough when fed dry. Others do. And the cat being a desert animal originally, it's not certain how much low-level dehydration actually impacts them. So that argument is not cut-and-dry (hah!) for me at this point.

Gill & George said:
The dry food is too high in carbs
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This is where I get stuck. The problem is carbs, right, not "dry"? I can agree with that. If I have 12.5% carb dry food, and 12.5% wet food (both higher than we'd want) -- does it make a difference if I'm giving the wet or the dry? The general response to this I tend to hear here is "it makes a difference because wet is better, because it's lower in carbs" -- circular reasoning, no? It's the carbs that count, not the "shape"?

Gill & George said:
It makes sense to me that we should feed our cats a diet that resembles most closely, what they have evolved to eat, small prey
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I'm not sure I agree with that, but it's not really something one can argue over, because it comes down to "nature knows best" vs "science can do better than nature". Humans eat cooked food, that's not what we "naturally" used to eat. I can understand this reasoning if you go all the way and feed raw, or chicks and mice. But for me it doesn't necessarily follow that the "mouse diet" is the healthiest diet a cat can be in. They do OK on it, that's for sure, or they wouldn't be around, but I don't see why we couldn't imagine that a slightly different balance of nutrients couldn't be "better" than what the cat eats in the wild.

Not trying to start a "food war", just trying to explain where I'm at and what I think at this stage.
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
I think @Cyndy told me things started to change dramatically for Nam-kha when she changed the food too... (Heavens... am I going to turn into a wet food convert? o_O)
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I was skeptical when I started to remove all dry food, but I was thinking that if everyone here agree about it, why not give it a try? Well it was hard at first, and both my cats got mad at me. Pibou, the bigger one, refused to eat for several days, I had to give him some dry so that he would still eat something.. And Nam-kha could not find something that she liked in wet food. I tried so many brands! After only a few days I saw a huge change in her numbers, so I kept looking for something she would like better. It really changes everything for Nam-kha. That's funny.

But I would like to know exactly how and why it does that :)
 
This is my favorite explanation of why processed foods, absolutely dry but even some wet cat foods, can make diabetes management so difficult. Add to the mix that with cats, we are relying on a basal insulin to do all of the heavy lifting so we can’t even attempt to compensate meal to meal, thus making it important to feed something consistent and predictable with as little carb (making less margin of error) as possible. @Stephanie & Quintus I know many people feed young again which claims to be zero carb. I wonder if any using SLGS feed it exclusively and what their SSs look like, it would be a worthy Think Tank topic. Anyway, here’s an except:

“Typically, 150 grams of carbohydrate would be a good-sized bowl of cooked pasta. You may think that by reading the ingredients label on the package you can precisely compute how much of the dry pasta you must weigh out to dispense exactly 150 grams of carbohydrate. Now, if you’re a nonobese type 1 diabetic who weighs 150 pounds (68 kilograms) and makes no insulin, 1 gram of carbohydrate will raise your blood sugar by about 5 mg/dl. By using methods that we’ll later describe, you can calculate exactly how much insulin you must inject to keep your blood sugar at the same point after the meal as it was before the meal. This may sound elegant, but it will rarely work for a highcarbohydrate meal. What neither the ADA nor the package tells you is that food producers are permitted a margin of error of plus or minus 20 percent in their labeling of ingredients. Furthermore, many packaged products—for example vegetable soup—cannot even match this error range, in spite of federal labeling requirements. So even if you perform the necessary calculations, your blood sugar after the meal can be off by a carbohydrate error of 5 mg/dl multiplied by ± 30 grams (± 20 percent of 150 gm), or by a whopping ±150 mg/dl for just this one meal. If your target blood sugar level is approximately 85 mg/ dl, you’ve now got a blood glucose level anywhere between 235 mg/dl and 0 mg/dl. Either situation is clearly unacceptable.”

http://www.diabetes-book.com/laws-small-numbers/
 
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