5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 pm=313 +4=333

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Re: 5/1 Ella

I think you should probably skip the shot this morning, so we can get her shed drained.
She's negative for ketones? What was the +11?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella

Neg for ketones (today) and I slept through the +11. I worry about the ketones:(
 
Re: 5/1 Ella

Sorry :lol: I guess I wasn't reading correctly. Go ahead and do a +11.5, if you want. I'll be back in about 15 minutes or so.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

I'm having a hard time reconciling this decision. She's 410. Are we withholding to let her drain shed and to see what she can do on her own?
I'm not even sure if she got any insulin with that minute amount last night. I really worry about her developing ketones. Can it happen that quickly?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

Ouch Ella you've gone from one extreme to the other - she continues to amaze and astound!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

shouldn't we be concerned with glucose toxicity as well?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

It's up to you, Tamara, if you want to shoot 1 drop of insulin, but remember that she has a tendancy to drop fast once her bounce clears. Last night, Jill wrote:
Jill & Alex said:
like libby, i think she'll come down some more before morning, but if she's still 468... i'd have a hard time not shooting. lol!
here's the thing, we know she can drop from high numbers into double digits. it's your call if you want to shoot at the zero line if she remains where she is, but if she's come down some... i'd skip. she's shown a tendency to drop and drop fast as the bounce is breaking. kwim?
Click to expand...
I think glucose toxicity happens when a cat remains in high numbers for a long time and gets used to them.
Ella has not remained in high numbers for long.

It's your call.

I will only be on the board for another 15 minutes.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

would dropping to 410 be considered coming down a bit? it seems pretty gradual doesn't it?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

Yes it does.
But it's still 50 points. If she comes down to 350 (which is an extremely safe number, but still dropping), when it's time for you to leave, would you still feel comfortable?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

probably...seeing as I can come home for lunch...we're almost half another late with giving the shot now.
I have this overwhlemng sense of guilt. she is ravishing and licked her plate clean, looks uncomfortable and is pacing around. it's hard to see frankly.

i guess i want to know if there is harm in not giving the shot....
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

I guess there is some harm, in that she will be high for a while. But, she could also come down from the bounce at any time, even this morning or this afternoon. Hopefully, by tonight. But some bounces can last for up to 3 days.
Lots of cats bounce. J.D. is an expert bouncer.
The fast drop she had (and the possible very low she went to yesterday morning after the 40), could have set up this bounce, and the other bounces are probably from fast drops and too low of lows for her to react and try to save her.

I think the consensus is trying to drain her shed as much as possible and see how she does, and then see what dose to give her this evening.
Sorry, if I'm confusing you, I'm not the greatest with words. I'm off to get ready for tbp. If you want to give her 1 drop of insulin, it's up to you.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

Thank you Dyana:) I hope you have a nice day at work. Sorry to put so much pressure on you with all of my questions:(
I guess I'm worried about her being high for the next couple of days. I don't want to put her in harms way. I know there are many variables at play here. I will relucntantly skip the shot as suggested and pray that she will be ok. My concern is her still being high tonight and then giving her a shot at the zero line and it not being enough which will keep her high for another cycle. I don't want to keep her high for several days.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

Hi Tamara,
I think you made the right decision to skip this morning. Given Ella's history, she will almost certainly come down over the course of the day. It looks like a bounce to me, and don't forget that she had kibble yesterday and that stays in the system and influences the bg numbers for a long time. Hang in. One day of higher numbers is not going to harm Ella. What we want to see is a lessening of the bounce/dive pattern. Today is "shed draining day". If you feel guilty, pretend you gave a fur shot.

Have a good morning. I hope that Ella will cooperate and give you a nice safe number when you check on her at noon.

You are doing fine.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

Thanks Ella:)
Do you think it's necessary to come home during lunch seeing as I didn't shoot?
I also didn't get a +1 but I can do that now. I know she is high....I can see it!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

If you can get home at lunch, it would make you feel better to see how she is doing today. And you could make sure that Ella is eating. But if it proves not possible to get home, then don't fret about it. Let's see what her number is now.

Ella
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

Hi guys .. no dosing advice from me .. just wanted to say I'm sorry your furbaby is not feeling so hot this morning .. You are a good bean to that kitty and you are doing everything you can to help her :YMHUG: Hang in there!!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

hi tamara! i think you did a-ok this morning. think of it like a pendulum - ella's swinging wildly and by skipping the shot, you're removing one of the factors that encourages the swing. we want the swinging to stop so we can see where she lands.

glucose toxicity is from high numbers sustained over time.

ketones are not just from high numbers - the equation includes not enough calories and inflammation. as far as i understand things, i doubt you have to worry about this today.

i just wanted to clarify one thing. yesterday morning when she was 40 and you took her to the vet, did they wait hours to retest her again? were they observing and waiting for visual symptoms of hypoglycemia? if i understood that correctly, that would concern me.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

According to the bg's on the AT i gave them, they we just observing her. They gave her the kibble at 9:30am. They don't believe in testing all the time and assure me she will be fine.

In terms of going home for lunch: do people think it's necessary? The trip take 1.5 hours return. She ate 4/8 of her food this morning and I left her some out to eat. If we are worried about calorie intake I will go. I would need to leave in 15 so if you happen to see this, please let me know:)
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410

If you want to make sure she eats, then go home and check on her. As I recall she's not one to eat on her own, correct? If she's feeling icky from high BGs, maybe a little visit from Mom and some tasty fuds will cheer her up. It's not absolutely necessary, but I get the feeling you'll feel better doing it :smile:

MJ
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (question about going home)

I acutally could benefit from staying at school to get things done but if it's necessary I will go home:) just trying to keep her safe:)
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (question about going home)

Hi Tamara,
I think Ella will be OK if you don't make it home for lunch. That's a long commute. She'll probably get caught up on her sleep. Since you didn't give any insulin today, she is not in danger of a hypo. You left out plenty of food, yes? So do what makes you comfortable.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (question about going home)

Not necessary, I don't think. I know seeing these high numbers really sucks, but as others have said, she hasn't been hanging in reds and blacks persistently for a long time. You haven't detected any ketones. She'll be OK today. She's writing her own rulebook, and bit by bit we'll figure it out.

MJ
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (question about going home)

Just sending you hugs today, Tamara. I know this is tough. You're doing great. I agree with the others...if it would make you feel better to come home, then do; but I wouldn't worry too much.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (question about going home)

Hang in there Tamara! You're doing such a great job with Ella!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (question about going home)

Hello Everyone,

So I went home at lunch...probably didn't have to but checked in on her anyways. I did her bg and it was 347 so not too much different than this morning. I gave her a bit of lc. Since I didn't shoot this morning I would really like to dose her by 6:00pm as this would allow me to get a +2 in the morning. I will try and get a +11.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (would like to dose her at 6:00pm)

Question - what + hour was the 347? And remind me what time zone you are in (sorry, can't remember). Please do post a +11, or whenever you get home. Thanks!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (would like to dose her at 6:00pm)

Tamara, no dose advice, but just wanted to say what a fantastic bean you are. You are doing such a great job with her. I can't believe the schedule you are keeping, and the 1.5 hr. commute is hard enough and going home for lunch is just unbelievable. And YOU STILL HAD TIME TO VISIT MY CONDO LAST NIGHT, OR BEFORE.

We need a supper women picture for you, I know someone will find it, I'm not good at pics.

Good luck on the dose tonight!!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 (would like to dose her at 6:00pm)

Thanks Barb:)

Libby, the 346 (was off by one point:) was at +6 and I'm eastern time. It is 4:45pm here. I will get a +11.

Thanks!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346 (would like to dose her at 6:00pm

Hey, it's much better than last night's BLACK PMPS, right?

MJ
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

hi tamara. can i trouble you to get a reading at 5:45? we'd really like to see if she's steady, rising, or dropping.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

no problem...will that be considered her pmps?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

313... i notice she drops when she's hungry
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

56 points in 45 minutes...that's quite a bit hey?

can i feed her while I wait?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

Glad you got that reading.

Here's the deal, Tamara...
Yes 313 is still high... even though she has dropped nicely. If i were in your shoes, I would be very, very tempted to skip insulin again tonight. Ella has a history of continuing to drop before onset occurs. "If" dosing her has set up a vicious cycles of high and lows... we may be able to stop it by withholding insulin tonight.

HOWEVER, I said "if". We don't KNOW if that's what has been happening with utmost certainty. Skipping tonight will give us a whole lot more info.

Bottom line:

There's a decrease of 100 points since AMPS with no insulin since last night (and barely any then).

I know you can keep Ella safe tonight, one way or another. I'm just not convinced it's necessary. I guess one way to find out is to try shooting and see what happens. The other way to find out is to skip and see what happens.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

ok I will skip the dose if it gives us more data...should i be worried about ketones?
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

checking for ketones is always a good idea. definitely try for a test tonight!
as long as she's eating and there are not other things such as infection or illness (systemic stresses) ketones shouldn't be a problem.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

Thanks Jill. She's certianly eating on her own now:) She clearly is capable of doing so! Why does her bg drop before meal time? She was so hungry she was biting computer wires!

and is there a plan set for tomorrow? depending on numbers of course.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

has Ella had ketones before? Get a ketone test when you can. If it comes back positive, then we'll have to reassess. She should be fine, but it's good to stay on top of ketone testing when you are withholding insulin.

My thought is that if Ella is dropping this fast without insulin, then adding the insulin on top of that tonight might make her drop even faster. Who knows, maybe she will drop another 100 points overnight on her own. We've seen it happen on occasion. I'm extremely curious to see what she does.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

tpr said:
Thanks Jill. She's certianly eating on her own now:) She clearly is capable of doing so! Why does her bg drop before meal time? She was so hungry she was biting computer wires!
Click to expand...
ella is either clearing the bounce from yesterday's low or her BG drops because it's been awhile since she has eaten or a combination of both.

My thought is that if Ella is dropping this fast without insulin, then adding the insulin on top of that tonight might make her drop even faster. Who knows, maybe she will drop another 100 points overnight on her own. We've seen it happen on occasion. I'm extremely curious to see what she does.
Click to expand...
i agree with libby.
when ella drops rapidly, it sets her up for another bounce.
i'm very, very curious to see what she does.


i have to run and won't be back online til later tonight, but i'll catch up to you then.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

no she has never had a history of ketones. i just missed a pee while she was eating:( but I got one over lunch which was neg.

perhaps her dropping does have to do with her being hungry. she's always starving in the morning and that's when we see most of her drops. SHe tries to wake me up at four for food and I 'ignore" her until about 6:00pm.

while I was waiting for a response i drew up a bunch of insulin in the syringe and got it prepared. Can i keep it there until tomorrow or is it done now?

thanks so much!
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

tpr said:
no she has never had a history of ketones. i just missed a pee while she was eating:(
Click to expand...
She pees WHILE she eats???? :lol: :mrgreen:


tpr said:
while I was waiting for a response i drew up a bunch of insulin in the syringe and got it prepared. Can i keep it there until tomorrow or is it done now?
Click to expand...

No, you can pitch it.

If you are data hungry, you could probably get a test a few hours after she has eaten to see if she is dropping more. Seems when she dropped while on insulin and you fed her, she often ignored that fact and kept dropping anyway. Of course the insulin is playing a part in that, but She may have a pretty good working pancreas on top of it.

Im REALLY glad Jill and Libby are helping you out here. Youre in great hands! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 (dose at 6)

Sorry, but you'll have to throw that insulin to the sink. Lantus does not work well with pre-filled syringes.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 pm=313

you know how long it took me to get those air bubbles out ohmygod_smile

carolyn...I feel very lucky. i am blessed by everyone that generously donates their time to help ella. forever grateful!
so many angels in my life o:-) o:-) o:-)
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 pm=313

curiosity is killing me. :mgreen: It has probably been 3-4 hours since her dinner, can you test and see if she came down more after food? Then I would plan to get a test about an hour before you want to shoot in the morning.
 
Re: 5/1 Ella am 410 +6=346+11 369 pm=313

+4=333

on the rise a bit... perhaps the dropping numbers are related to a food issue?

might not be able to get a +11 as that will be 5:00am but will do my best:)
I would like to shoot at 6:00am tomorrow so I can have time for a +1 and 2.
 
hmmm.. pretty flat. if you can get that +11 it'll help to see if she's dropping. i know it's tough in the morning though.

libby and i put our heads together about dosing tomorrow morning.

we're thinking no shot if yellow or dropping. we don't want her diving while you're at work.

if you end up shooting... stick with the zero line dose you've been giving.

of course, we'd like it even more if ella was too low to shoot! :mrgreen:


just our thoughts.
see you tomorrow...
 
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