5/02 Cloud AMPS 187 (on AT2)

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hummingcrow

hummingcrow

Member Since 2016
Earlier thread (from my introduction post)

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
All the reference numbers in the documentation on this forum are based on human meter readings unless specifically stated otherwise.
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I know all the reference numbers are generally for human meter readings. I now know from @MrWorfMen's Mom that pet meters like my Alpha Trak 2 read a bit higher. But how much higher? Is there a conversion chart somewhere that I've missed that would help me translate back and forth between pet meter numbers and human meter numbers? Any help knowing what numbers I should be looking for with the pet meter would be most appreciated.

Advice from my vet is that below 200 is good on my meter. I know I've had Cloudy a bit low per my curve on Saturday - that was honestly the first opportunity I have had to test during the day. I will do it at least 1x per week and will start building some evening numbers as well.

Thanks in advance!
 
Hi and welcome to LL. The point where you want to reduce the dose by .25 on the AT is 68. With the human meters we reduce if under 50. I just read your story. Cloud was lucky to have found you and your husband! Normal on a human meter is 50-120. Most vets give a higher range as most people don't test as often as we do around here. Keep asking questions and someone will always answer.
 
Thank you for the reply, @tiffmaxee. I appreciate it!

I guess I'm also looking for what are the ranges with the AT2? I guess I thought the color coding on my SS was adapted for pet meters, but it seems like it actually is not? Or is it? I don't want to assume the green and blue ranges are good if those numbers are for the human meter instead of the pet meter.

We do have a TrueResult human meter at home. Perhaps I should switch to that to avoid confusion? But I bought it for my husband who may be pre-diabetic. Was kind of hoping it would just be the house human meter. :)
 
Hi again! BTW what shall we call you? We've got Cloudy's name.. we'd love to know yours if you feel comfortable providing it!

Human meters have become most common because the strips for the pet meter are quite a bit more expensive to use. Either meter is just fine and many vet's do suggest (some even insist) on the pet meter because the readings from it will more closely mimic those of animal lab values.

There is no conversion chart or simple math calculation to convert pet meter numbers to human meter numbers or vice versa. The difference is not linear or even a steady %. Your vet has suggested you aim for numbers below 200 on the pet meter. The optimal range with a pet meter is between 70 and 150. The trick is to not get hung up on individual reading numbers. What you are looking for is patterns over time to understand how Cloudy responds to the insulin. If you take your readings over time and graph them, the pattern you see with the pet meter will be the very similar to the pattern you would get using a human meter. In the big scheme of things, a high number is a high number no matter which meter you are using. It's really only at low ranges when some intervention on your part is needed, that the difference really matters.
 
@Tuxedo Mom , can you help with the AT ranges?

Most of us use the human meters because the vet strips are so expensive and we test so much. That is why I tagged for help for you. I just know the low number. Someone has the ranges on their ss but I can't remember who. Lots of us use the Relion meters as the strips are cheap in comparison and use a tiny drop of blood.
 
hummingcrow said:
I don't want to assume the green and blue ranges are good if those numbers are for the human meter instead of the pet meter.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, you have 2 shades of green on your pet meter spreadsheet whereas the human meter spreadsheet only has one shade of green. This is how we differentiate between safe/warning green numbers when kitty gets to that low a range.

While I am sure some folks do "share" their human meter with their cat, it is not a recommended practice that ANY human meter be shared even between 2 humans. Not sure how often your husband uses the meter but using it for Cloudy as well would mean you could not go back and get the history off the meter for your husband or Cloudy.

If you did decide to switch over to a human meter, the Relion Confirm or Micro are popular inexpensive brands available at Walmart. If you switch though, make sure you let your vet know so there is no confusion as to how Cloudy is doing as the readings will be lower than those taken with a pet meter.
 
Hi there, and welcome to LL.

Unfortunately there is no conversion chart available, I see Linda has explained above.


MrWorfMen's Mom said:
human meter spreadsheet only has one shade of green.
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For those using human meters we also have two shades of green, under 50 is light green,
On the Pet meter anything below 68 is light green.

Taking a look at your ss I see that you reduced due to the low numbers on 4/30, that was the right thing to do. However, I note that you have taken the dosage up again last night to 4 u. I am guessing that you did that because of the preshot being 420. However, I would say that this is not advisable, dosage is based on how low the dose can take Cloud, the 420 is not as important as knowing that the 4u saw Cloud go far to low.
I am concerned that the 420 you saw last night was a bounce resulting from a drop into lower numbers, numbers that she is not used to.

I would encourage you to stick to the 3.75 u for at least a week, in line with the SLGS guidelines( I take it you are aiming to do that as Cloud is still on some dry), unless you find she earns another reduction. Lantus does best with consistent dosing, changing the dose up and down too quickly can result in wonky numbers as the depot realigns.

If you are able to today I would strongly advise you getting a +1 or +2, if at all possible. If that number has dropped significantly from amps then you will need to be vigilant, if you have to go out you may need to leave food out for her.

+1 or +2 that is significantly lower than amps can be your early warning as to an active cycle and a potential drop into lower numbers.

As you have already noted, you getting spot checks during the week (+1 +2 are very useful) when you can will help build a better picture as will your weekly BG curves.
 
@tiffmaxee, @Gill & George, @MrWorfMen's Mom - Thanks so much for your responses. I will stick at the 3.75 mark for this week, though I won't be able to spot check during the day.

I guess the 420 last night could be a bounce, but we were also over 1.5hrs late giving the shot so little Cloudy had time to rise. Also, this morning he ate much more food than he has been willing to do, and the food is a bit higher in carbs than I want for him going forward, and knowing that was all I had to give him today (going to pet store on way home from work) I hedged that the 4 units might be needed. But I will not do that again, we will stay at 3.75 the rest of the week and see how he is doing.

Thank you all so much for your support. Marking my ? as answered.
 
PS, I will not be sharing the human meter between husband and Cloudy. I'll stay with the AlphaTrak2, it WAS requested by my vet and I want to continue working with her.

My name is Cheryl, FYI. And I'll edit my signature - Cloud is a boy. :D
 
tiffmaxee said:
@Tuxedo Mom , can you help with the AT ranges?

Most of us use the human meters because the vet strips are so expensive and we test so much. That is why I tagged for help for you. I just know the low number. Someone has the ranges on their ss but I can't remember who. Lots of us use the Relion meters as the strips are cheap in comparison and use a tiny drop of blood.
Click to expand...


If you look at Tuxie's spreadsheet there is a tab with some same drop comparisons I did with the AT2 pet meter and FreeStyle Lite himan meter. I have done many more but don't bother to list the results. The results are in mmol/L but if you multiply by 18 you can get the US numbers. It has a fair range of numbers from higher to lower

Although this is simply my own observation I have found the average difference to be about 35% higher on the pet meter. Of course this can change since ALL meters have an allowable error variance.
 
That gives her a ballpark. As the number get into the green the percentage difference is much smaller. For example under 68 on the AT calls for a reduction and under 50 with the human meters.
 
Having done dual testing (both pet and human meter) for the past 10 months, I can't say I'd be willing to say what % difference is likely to occur. I am repeatedly surprised sometimes with having my expectations of a certain difference being totally off the mark. The one thing I have witnessed through this exercise is that the difference will often be more pronounced when my girl is starting a bounce/drop. Coincidence, anomaly or increased sensitivity of the pet meter....I don't know, but definitely something I am paying more attention to.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Having done dual testing (both pet and human meter) for the past 10 months, I can't say I'd be willing to say what % difference is likely to occur. I am repeatedly surprised sometimes with having my expectations of a certain difference being totally off the mark. The one thing I have witnessed through this exercise is that the difference will often be more pronounced when my girl is starting a bounce/drop. Coincidence, anomaly or increased sensitivity of the pet meter....I don't know, but definitely something I am paying more attention to.
Click to expand...


As I said in my post the % I got is only my own observation and that of course is using the AT2 and the FS Lite. Using a different brand of human meter the %s may well be different.
 
hummingcrow said:
but we were also over 1.5hrs late giving the shot
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If you give a shot late by 1.5 hours, the next shot needs to be 12 hours later ie you need to delay your regular shot time by 1.5 hours. (you may have already done this, not sure though so I'll go ahead and explain)

Shooting at less than 12 hour intervals can act as a slight dose increase.
Shooting at more than 12 hour intervals can act as a slight dose reduction.

If you find yourself off schedule then to get back on shcedule you can change the shot time by 30min a day or 15 min per cycle, doing it this way will have minimal impact on BG.

hummingcrow said:
though I won't be able to spot check during the day.
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I'm guessing you have work commitments which make this difficult. Just a suggestion and it may not work for you, depending on your schedule, but it was just something I did, which allowed me to at least get a +2 on days when I had to go out. I am not really a morning person, but I ended up changing my shot time to between 6.30 am and 7.00 am, this allowed me to test/feed/ shoot and get at least a +1 in before having to head out in the morning.It also meant that I would be able to get a +1 or +2 and at least a +4 in every night before bed.

If you are back from work an hour or so before shot time getting a test in then can be helpful too.

The more data you can gather the easier it will be for you going forward.
Doing a curve once a week is great, but if that happens to be on a day when he is bouncing then it doesn't really help you much.
If daytime midcycles are impossible for you then getting those pm tests in is doubly important.

The sticky on doing TR on a full time job is full of fab tips for getting all that info.:)
 
You mentioned in your introductory post that perhaps your husband was not as observant as you might like.
Check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools which has some specific observations, and optionally, a grid for tracking them.
Maybe those are specific enough that he can track them and provide additional context for evaluating Cloud.
In particular, dehydration checking, and food and water intake and output, will often clue you that something is up, although it won't tell you what. As you go along, you should see less food and water intake and output, as the insulin will allow the food to be used and reduce the need for water to process some of the excess glucose out through the kidneys. This will help your cat stay hydrated, too.
If Cloud has ever had diabetic ketoacidosis, it can be worth it to purchase a blood ketone meter (NovaMax Plus, Precision Xtra are 2 of them), to help you monitor for ketones - more than a trace of blood ketones and you may need to go to the vet (check with folks here for input).
 
Thanks @BJM and @Gill & George. I do have a difficult time being gone during the day since I am at work 9 hours, plus 30-40 minute commute each way. In the summer, this gets both better & worse. I'll work 10-hour days Mon-Thu which will suck on work days but it will be nice to have 3-day weekends for data gathering throughout the day. Been reading the TR on a full-time job, should be able to incorporate some additional tests here and there.
 
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