4 months without regulation

[TCromeans]

Our blue eyed tabby with siamese markings who came out of the woods to us (lost or abandoned?) was estimated to be about 1 year and healthy by vet and was 11 lbs, a large boned big cat. After more than year with us and seeing vets who thought his 16 lb weight was ok even tho we tried to use weight managemnt food Frank was diagnosed with diabetes. We follwed diet of vet DM and started with PZI(human recombinant0 . He started vomiting routinely and the progression of 1,2 ,3 units of PZI did not regulate. After near 2 months of vomiting, went to specialist. Switched to alternative meat (venison) no grain food and vomiting stopped. Two points for the food alternative meat (food allergy?) and no grain carbs. At one week on new food and 4 u he was down to low point curve 80. Vet moved to 3 units, not enough, had to start new bottle 10 days (should have been 7) on 3.5 units and curve showed drop to 41! Stopped with syrup and food, he appeared fine but the drop was clear with only 2 readings that day. After several days of 1.5, 1.0 and then 0.5 units took off insulin for 2 days to see if in remission, no ! over 400 again. Start PZI low doses over : 0.5 1 wk, 1 u 1wk, 1.5 u , 1 wk, each curve still in 300's---3 weeks still same as when diagnosed. Changed to glargine now, after 1 week of 1 unit , still in high 300's. Did not say but yes we do home testing routinely and report to the vet.
I have been reading a lot and on this board so want to start communicating with others who have more experience. We follow the vet advice so far only but sometimes feel frustrated that not making progress after 4 months as far as regulation, only progress is that not the vomiting that went on for near 6 weeks on the DM food!
Thanks for any suggestions or resources in Atlanta GA. Will post his photo later. Frank

 

[Cathy S]

Glargine (or Lantus as we call it) is very different than ProZinc. It is dosed differently and doses are changed differently. For example, the dose is changed based on the nadir only ( the lowest point of the cycle) ProZinc considers the nadir and the preshot numbers.

We have a Lantus forum:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

For right now, you might check it out, especially the starred topics at the top of the page. They have great advice on how to dose, how to care for the insulin, etc.

That forum will want you to set up a spreadsheet if you would like dose advice. They want to see the past dosing and glucose number history.

Here are the directions to set one up: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9 It is tricky. if you have trouble, just ask for help.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Is Frank eating the same amount at each meal? If not is is hard to get "regulation". However, for some cats may never get "regulated". My Bailey was one. I tried for over seven years and would still get lows, like a 40 preshoot and then PSs in the 300s. I changed insulins and that did not help much.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Is the grain free food you're feeding canned or dry? If it's dry, the food could be driving his BG up and preventing him from regulating. Diabetic cats need a low carb, canned diet.

 

[Blue]

Our blue eyed tabby with siamese markings who came out of the woods to us (lost or abandoned?) was estimated to be about 1 year and healthy by vet and was 11 lbs, a large boned big cat. After more than year with us and seeing vets who thought his 16 lb weight was ok even tho we tried to use weight managemnt food Frank was diagnosed with diabetes. We follwed diet of vet DM and started with PZI(human recombinant0 . He started vomiting routinely and the progression of 1,2 ,3 units of PZI did not regulate. After near 2 months of vomiting, went to specialist. Switched to alternative meat (venison) no grain food and vomiting stopped. Two points for the food alternative meat (food allergy?) and no grain carbs. At one week on new food and 4 u he was down to low point curve 80. Vet moved to 3 units, not enough, had to start new bottle 10 days (should have been 7) on 3.5 units and curve showed drop to 41! Stopped with syrup and food, he appeared fine but the drop was clear with only 2 readings that day. After several days of 1.5, 1.0 and then 0.5 units took off insulin for 2 days to see if in remission, no ! over 400 again. Start PZI low doses over : 0.5 1 wk, 1 u 1wk, 1.5 u , 1 wk, each curve still in 300's---3 weeks still same as when diagnosed. Changed to glargine now, after 1 week of 1 unit , still in high 300's. Did not say but yes we do home testing routinely and report to the vet.
I have been reading a lot and on this board so want to start communicating with others who have more experience. We follow the vet advice so far only but sometimes feel frustrated that not making progress after 4 months as far as regulation, only progress is that not the vomiting that went on for near 6 weeks on the DM food!
Thanks for any suggestions or resources in Atlanta GA. Will post his photo later. Frank

Welcome to the site.
1. Home testing - awesome. What meter are you using, and can you provide the numbers from your testing. Testing is done before each shot and before bed, with additional tests good to find your cat's nadir on which dosing is based with Lantus. You can read the stickys in the Lantus forum to get more info. Test numbers are kept by many in a google spreadsheet which makes for ease in others helping you.

2. Food - low carb wet food is best, and no dry food or treats which are generally high carb and will mess with your attempts to regulate. Many have great luck feeding a raw diet.

Regulation will happen on your cat's schedule, not by any calendar. Some cats take much longer than others, and 4 months is really not that long, considering you have switched to a better, and an entirely different type of insulin. Lantus is a much longer lasting insulin.

I would say to set up a spreadsheet and plug in your numbers, then the others using Lantus can give you a hand with some suggestions.

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

HI and welcome to the board!

Changed to glargine now, after 1 week of 1 unit , still in high 300's. Did not say but yes we do home testing routinely and report to the vet.

I'm wondering... are the high 300's the numbers you are getting at shot time, or are they that high no matter when you are testing? The biggest difference between Prozinc and Lantus is how the dose is determined. Most vets will base the dose using PZI/Prozinc on the numbers you get for the preshot tests, and more or less ignore the nadir tests (mine didn't even tell me to check the nadir numbers!).
Lantus, OTOH, is dosed based on the lowest point in the cycle (nadir) which "usually" will happen 6 hours after the shot. That isn't a precise timing, as nadir can happen at other points in the 12 hour cycle. Are you testing every day somewhere "in the middle" of his 2 shots? If so, are you seeing any movement in his numbers between shots?

Carl

 

[hmjohnston]

PZI is a good insulin, Lantus is better as it lasts longer in the body.

I, too, question the food- is it dry or canned? Also, if you have a list of your BG levels- you know date/time/when shot insulin- you can start to fill out a spreadsheet- viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130 . Once you have the numbers we can look at them- and testing a lot helps us to see what is going on with the insulin- and give advise. Your cat may be getting TOO MUCH insulin and that will keep the numbers high as well. I know, kind of a catch 22 - high either way. That is why we test so much :lol: .

Sneakers is finally into regulation after 9 months so don't feel bad. She also has acromelegy which means she is a high dose cat (currently 25u BID). We have a forum on the board that discusses acro, IAA, and cushings- viewforum.php?f=12 . You can look through the stickies and see if your cat has any of the symptoms.

For piece of mind the tests are relatively cheap compared to some, $49 for acro, $15 for IAA, I don't know about cushings, and another $15 for buying the mailer. Plus whatever your vet charges to draw blood.

Edited to change links