4 months, still not regulated, getting worse

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malloryray

malloryray

Member Since 2015
Hello, my husband and I are getting more frustrated and concerned about our kitty. He was diagnosed on Jan 1 of this year, so it's been 4 months, and he's still not regulated. He's gone from 23 lbs to 16 lbs (he's a big cat) and he looks soooo thin. The vet keeps looking for possible infections that are affecting his glucose levels, and we have an appointment to get his teeth cleaned and pulled if infection is found.

- 4 units Prozinc twice a day
- Purina DM diet
- 23 lbs to 16 lbs in 4 months (vet wants him at 17 lbs)
- 2 UTIs since diagnosis
- Still high urine and water intake
- His meow has changed
- Neuropathy has gotten much worse
- Fructosamine from 3-30 was 624, but could have been affected by UTI
- Curves: lows are in the 400s, highs are 500-600
- Keeps trying to eat human food (bread, meat, cake, anything)

We want him to get better, we want him to be happy. Should we take him to another vet for a second opinion?
 

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Welcome to FDMB.
It can be a challenge to regulate a diabetic cat. I've got a few questions that will help us understand more of what is happening.
When you started on ProZinc, what was the initial dose?
How were dose increases decided?
How are you monitoring him at home?

A note: Many of us feed over the counter canned or raw food, as is recommended by Dr Pierson of Cat Info. I feed all 16 cats in my home Friskies pates.
 
Hi, wondering if the DM food is dry or canned, the dry has a pretty high carb ratio, and that could certainly effect his numbers. According to my vet, typically, ProZinc starts with a lower dose, 1/2 to 1 unit for at least 5 days. Then if adjustments are needed, it's done by 1/2 unit increments every 5 to 7 days, depending on the BG numbers.

It may not be a bad idea to get a second opinion, but I'd ask the new vet a lot of questions to make sure they're well educated/experienced in treating diabetic cats.

I believe BJM has something in her signature about that.
 
He started on 1.5 units of Prozinc in January and has gone up gradually since then because his glucose numbers are still too high.

I'm monitoring him with the AlphaTrak2, doing his curves twice a week.


I'll ask the vet about wet DM. We have two other cats, and they're all eating the same food.
 
1-22-15
8am 455 (before breakfast & shot)
breakfast after glucose reading
9am insulin shot (2.5 units)
10 am 524
12 pm 477
4pm 352
6pm 501
8pm 521


3-31-15
8am 603 (before breakfast & shot)
breakfast after glucose reading
9am insulin shot (3 units)
10am 599
12pm 545
2pm 383
4pm 389


His name is Killua (kill-ew-ah). He's 11 years old, DSH neutered. :cat:
 

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Welcome @malloryray,
There are 2 supplements that have helped my cat a lot - Zobaline for the neuropathy and D-mannose for UTI's. Both can be mixed into wet food and have very little taste. The Zobaline can take 2-4 weeks to really take effect but many people here have found it makes a big difference. The D-Mannose can be used to help clear and infection and as a preventative. Mitz gets 1/8 teaspoon twice a day as a maintenance dose.
I get the Zobaline here: http://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html
D-Mannose is available at healthfood stores. I get the powder at WholeFoods. (It's good for people too.) Here's a good article on it's use in cats:
http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/article/HOME/141

If you haven't already, definitely take a look at the links in @BJM's signature. Tons of great information there.

There is a wealth of knowledge (not to mention tons of helpful members) on this site! You came to the right place.

Joan
 
Transitioning him off of the DM dry is probably a good idea. It can make a huge difference. But because it can make a big difference you want to change slowly and monitor BG closely. It can take a few days to get out of their system once they are fully transitioned over to wet.
 
Signature links below for
Glucometer Notes
Secondary Monitoring Tools
Vet Interview Topics
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

Feeding is hard for us because we have two other cats. Right now we have them all eating the DM. They get a scoop of food in the morning, which usually lasts till dinner and then they get 1/2 a scoop before bed and it's gone in the morning. I worry about feeding on a more regulated schedule. He's already so thin, I'd like him to be able to eat whenever he feels hungry. Also, he doesn't recognize anything but kibble and tuna as food. :/
 
I feed all of mine the Friskies pates. I put it down twice a day and they graze on it until finished. It comes in 13 ounce cans which run just over a dollar. As they get used to having canned food, the initial scarf 'n' barf behavior calms down. Also, if you spread the food thinly across a wide plate it slows down the eating. Some folks freeze some of the food to be eaten as it thaws. Others use a timed feeder or two, such as the Pet Safe 5.
If you must feed some dry food, Evo Cat and Kitten is available in many large pet supply stores and Young Again 0 Carb is available on line.

Any food changes work best when done about 20-25% different per day or two, to avoid food refusal, vomiting, and diarrhea.
 
Purina DM made my cat's blood sugars go off the charts. Infact, and dry kibble causes a rise in her sugar levels. I now feed only wet food, five feedings a day. I use either Fancy Feast or Friskies pates. She does well on them both. Sheba pate also caused on elevated sugar. My vet also was adament about dry kibble...Purina DM in particular. I do home testing twice daily. It was a bit of a roller coaster ride for use as well. But, once she was eating the wet consistently...things started looking up. Whe she had her wellness exam last month, the vet was very happy with the results. My home testing and there serum blood levels were almost parallel. She was very impressed with the results and seemed to be open to wet feedings. Good luck from jane and stewey.
 
We went to a second vet yesterday to get a second opinion. He said to get the UTIs under control before changing anything (insulin, diet, etc). Guess I have to clean those litter boxes religiously! :banghead: He said that Killua's teeth looked fine and not to get them cleaned or pulled, but to start a dental regimen. He also said to get a full bloodwork and urine culture after this round of antibiotics to see how he's doing. And he wasn't concerned with Killua's legs being unsteady. He said it was unlikely to be neuropathy, but something else, and that worries me (something about protein buildup).

He also said that the longest he's seen a cat live after a diabetes diagnosis was 4 years. That was a little disheartening; as if we're only postponing the inevitable. :(
 
My Rudy was on kibble only for the first 15 years of his life. It was a struggle, but we got him over to canned food only and he has done really well on it. There are a ton of tips to help with that too :-) Rudy was also unsteady on his legs a bit and had a hard time squatting at the food dish and to go to the bathroom. We used a variety of things including zobaline, cosequin, omega 3 adn b12 shots to help.

I am almost positive that there are many kitties on this board that have lived with diabetes for more than 4 years. Maybe this vet doesn't have a vast experience with this disease, so I wouldn't worry about his personal experience with longevity.

After 9 months on prozinc I am acutally getting ready to try a new insulin. It's good to rule other issues out first like you are saying, like dental, uti and getting on a wet only diet before you change too much. You sound like you are doing a great job! Hang in there, do research, ask questions, and breathe :-)
 
@Elizabeth and Bertie has a kitty who's been on insulin for something like 8 years, so don't get discouraged by what the vet said about that! Do look into D-Mannose for treating and preventing UTI's. I would think about trying Zobaline just to see if it helps improve Killua's back legs. It might help and it won't hurt him even if it turns out to be something other than neuropathy. I'm not sure what your vet meant about the protein build-up, but maybe someone else will have an idea.
 
malloryray said:
He also said that the longest he's seen a cat live after a diabetes diagnosis was 4 years. That was a little disheartening; as if we're only postponing the inevitable. :(
Click to expand...
Ummm, not necessarily....
Mitzelplik's Mom said:
@Elizabeth and Bertie has a kitty who's been on insulin for something like 8 years,
Click to expand...
As Joan said, my kitty has been diabetic and on insulin for just over 8 years.
(And I recall a cat on this forum who lived happily as a diabetic for (I think...) 13 years!)

With a dedicated caregiver, and a little bit of luck, a diabetic cat can live as long and as happily as a non diabetic cat. :)

Chin up, sweetie. There is every chance that your kitty will have a long and happy life. :bighug:

Eliz
 
Hello, Mallory, would you please let us know what brand of D-Mannose you use? Is it proprietary to Whole Foods or something else? The reason I ask is that there have been so many warnings about nutritional additives not containing listed ingredients. I'd like to purchase through the internet so a brand name would be useful; particularly, since your particular brand helped your cat.
Best wishes for you and your kitty, Sophie and Pudge (GA)
 
I'm not using any D-Mannose yet. I want to ask my vet if she knows anything about it before I start using it.
 
Hi again, thank you Mallory for your response. My error, I had meant to ask my question of Joan.
Best wishes, Sophie and Pudge (GA)
 
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