4/9 Morlei AMPS 247 Increase to 6u, going to vet

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Becky & Morlei

Becky & Morlei

Member Since 2012
We're at 6u now, upped it from 5.5u after 4 cycles of no change. Made an appointment with the vet today for bloodwork and dental exam.
 
Hang in there! Ruby was all over the map until out of no where, the Lantus seemed to start making a difference about 2 weeks ago. You and Morlei will get there too! At least she's way, way more consistent than Ru has ever been.
 
If you're concerned about dental issues, have you tried adding a little powdered/crushed vitamin C (50 - 100mg) to the food every day? It won't fix dental decay, but it should bring down gum inflammation and resolve any tooth infections. I've used it on various cats with various sorts of infections with a high success rate.
 
Vidya & Boo said:
If you're concerned about dental issues, have you tried adding a little powdered/crushed vitamin C (50 - 100mg) to the food every day? It won't fix dental decay, but it should bring down gum inflammation and resolve any tooth infections. I've used it on various cats with various sorts of infections with a high success rate.
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No I havent, do you just buy plain tablets and crush them?

Vet update: Vet said she's looking good, needs to lose some weight still (13.4 lbs currently) and does recommend we get her teeth cleaned. I told her I'm scared to death of putting her under anesthesia and she said we'll do bloodwork and an ECG beforehand to catch anything. Said they've only lost one animal during a dental and it had a pre existing condition they would have caught had the owners agreed to the pre-op tests. I trust her and my mind is a tad more at ease but my fiance is still scared because that's his baby, but he said he'll agree to it if that's what I feel we need to do. So looks like we'll probably schedule it at the end of this month or beginning of May.
She also said they don't consider insulin resistance as a diagnosis until the cat is at 1 unit per 2.2 kg (1 unit per lb) so we have some room to go...I can't imagine a cat being on 13 units of insulin!!
 
Hi Guys - I haven't visited you before, but thought I'd stop on in and day HI! Goodluck with the dental - it will help Morlei, may even make a difference in the BG's. I can so understand the concerns with anesthesia - it is that way for all of this. Ever since Mannie was DX'd we have been in every year to have them cleaned - very much needed each time. He's done just fine with the being under. They monitor so well these days. Good luck. Just let the folks here know when it is scheduled, there are alot that have very helpful suggestions.

and I hear you on the IAA thing. We have one kitty here that is IAA and acro that is on 20 units. I too can't fathom how much that is.

Have a great rest of the evening!
 
Becky & Morlei said:
Vidya & Boo said:
If you're concerned about dental issues, have you tried adding a little powdered/crushed vitamin C (50 - 100mg) to the food every day? It won't fix dental decay, but it should bring down gum inflammation and resolve any tooth infections. I've used it on various cats with various sorts of infections with a high success rate.
Click to expand...
No I havent, do you just buy plain tablets and crush them?

Vet update: Vet said she's looking good, needs to lose some weight still (13.4 lbs currently) and does recommend we get her teeth cleaned. I told her I'm scared to death of putting her under anesthesia and she said we'll do bloodwork and an ECG beforehand to catch anything. Said they've only lost one animal during a dental and it had a pre existing condition they would have caught had the owners agreed to the pre-op tests. I trust her and my mind is a tad more at ease but my fiance is still scared because that's his baby, but he said he'll agree to it if that's what I feel we need to do. So looks like we'll probably schedule it at the end of this month or beginning of May.
She also said they don't consider insulin resistance as a diagnosis until the cat is at 1 unit per 2.2 kg (1 unit per lb) so we have some room to go...I can't imagine a cat being on 13 units of insulin!!
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I just wanted to say that not all acro cats ever reach a dose of 13 units, and some IAA cats can be around much lower such at 3u BID.

My Shadoe was a low dose acro for quite some time with doses around 8u. When she had her dental she was at 14u BID, but dropped to 2.75u after the dental. She worked her way up to higher doses later, so that calculation is pretty much of little use.

You may want to look into the cost for the two tests now and be prepared in case it's time to have the draw and send out for testing.

If you are feeding low carb wet diet and the cat is not sick, I would think that by 8u, the testing is merely a formality. It is important to know the status because acro cats do have health issues that need to be watched.

A good example is to have the vet use a small size kitty tube for the throat if going under anesthesia for dental or some other procedure because of a possible soft tissue growth in the throat. It's also advisable to avoid pilling acro cats for the same reason.
 
Aw, Morlei- glad the vetty report came back well.

Sending best of dental vines, and hopes that 6u is the highest you EVER have to go!

celi & binks
 
Yes, just plain vitamin C tablets, crushed, and estimate the amounts from there. The tablets with minimal added flavourings are usually best, and watch out for sweeteners like Xylitol, which can be very dangerous. (You can also get vitamin C powder, but I find its taste is sometimes too strongly sour for cats' liking, even in very small doses well-mixed in food.)
 
hi becky!

if i were you, i'd get the dental done first since you already know it needs to be done, and wait to pay for the acro/iaa tests until you've had at least a couple of months post-dental to see what the results are. if morlei has infection that can drive up her BG. if she has pain from teeth or gum issues, that can also drive up her BG. pain and/or infection can both result in needing more insulin. unless you have plenty of money and just want to get it all done in one blood draw, of course. if not, i think a logical sequence is deal with the almost-certain-to-be-a-cause factor first, and if that doesn't take care of it, go to the next possible factor.

you might want to check with your vet before adding any supplements. my understanding is that unlike people, cats manufacture their own vitamin c, so are rarely deficient in it. of course, this advice would apply before giving anything new to morlei, not specifically about the vitamins.
 
Like Julie, I'd be hesitant to start any supplement without first discussing it with your vet or a reputable holistic vet. Vitamin C may effect acid balance which could result in crystals so I'd be careful. If you're looking for an immune system booster, many of us have used L-lysine however, it will not replace getting a dental.
 
Becky

I also have used holistic medicine and homeopathy for 17 years. Cats do not need vit C supplemented to their diet. As Sienne said, vit C is acidifying and you don't want to do that to the urine....unless her pH is very alkaline and the vet prescribes it.
 
Becky & Morlei said:
Vet update: ....(shortened)
She also said they don't consider insulin resistance as a diagnosis until the cat is at 1 unit per 2.2 kg (1 unit per lb) so we have some room to go...I can't imagine a cat being on 13 units of insulin!!
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Hi Becky & Morlei - I've read the study that your vet is mentioning with the 1 unit per lb reference for "High Dose or Insulin Resistance" --- this is PER DAY, so at 6u BID, you're almost there.

My cat Norton was up to 13u BID at one point while still on dry food. He tested positive for Acromegaly -- which I didn't know about until I came here to FDMB. He ended up with an aggressive cancer unrelated to the acromegaly.

(((((hugs))))) Keep up the good work with Morlei
phoebe
 
Dental work can definitely affect BG and dose. My Shadoe had her dental, with one tooth extracted and her dose dropped from around 14u BID to 2.75u after the dental. She also had quite low BG for an entire day due to the anesthesia. Her dose did rise after awhile again so a dropping dose is not that significant unless it stays lower.
 
Thanks for all the info everyone, I definitely think the dental is the way to go for now, I'll hold off on any additional supplements until we talk to the vet again. I think the vet said that one of those tests would cost around $160 so I definitely think I will take your advice Julie and wait on that and see how she does after the dental...if no change after a few months we'll look into other possibilities.
Sienne and Gabby said:
Becky --

This is a post I put together on dental information. There are links to several of the brochures my vet has put together to help people evaluate dental care for their cats.
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I will take a look at this tomorrow (or today since its already 1 am), thanks!

Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
Dental work can definitely affect BG and dose. My Shadoe had her dental, with one tooth extracted and her dose dropped from around 14u BID to 2.75u after the dental. She also had quite low BG for an entire day due to the anesthesia. Her dose did rise after awhile again so a dropping dose is not that significant unless it stays lower.
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If her BG drops what would I reduce her dose to? I guess it depends on how low she actually goes. Let's say she's hovering around 200 all day rather than her normal 230-280, how much would I reduce? And anything under 200...what would you recommend? I'll definitely be on here the day of the procedure and the day after but I'd like to have an idea ahead of time.
 
At 200 you wouldn't be reducing at all. Reductions using the TR protocol are earned at 50 and using the SLGS protocol at 90.

Your vet may suggest not to give insulin at all on the day of the dental and possibly the night before, please make sure you ask if they forget to mention to you what they want you to do.

I'm not as experienced as some of the others that have commented but I have studied quite a few spreadsheets and I haven't seen one that looks like Morlei's before which makes me suspicious that something else is going on, it doesn't seem to matter how much insulin you give her the results are pretty much the same :? I hope that I'm wrong though and that the dental alone does wonders for her.
 
Hi there! I just wanted to toss in my 2 cents :-D CoQ10 is a supplement that is great for gums- it is an antioxidant that has shown promise in the dental field, as well as many other benefits to the body. I use it on my civie (60mg sid) who is borderline stomatitis (severe inflammation of the gingiva) combined with brushing.

I just wanted to touch on the protocol for reducing dose with Morlei. If you have even an inkling of susupicion that she may be acro (does she show any other symptoms besides insulin resistance and large size? does she snore, have a ravenous appetite, eat non-food items, have a heart murmur, big paws, unusual extra-cuteness :lol: ) you may want to reduce dose if you get in the very low blues. We try to keep Charlie out of the greens since they still have a working pancreas, and if the tumor output slows down you could be at risk of a hypo. My vet was at the Western Veterinary Conference a couple months ago and she is super interested in acro now that Charlie is her patient and she went to a seminar on acro and endocrinology. The presenter (Dr. Catharine Scott-Moncrieff) said that she is now recommending that diabetic cats who weigh over 11 pounds get tested for acro whether they are showing signs of insulin resistance or not. She is finding that 10% of those cats have acromegaly.
 
Charliemeow said:
Hi there! I just wanted to toss in my 2 cents :-D CoQ10 is a supplement that is great for gums- it is an antioxidant that has shown promise in the dental field, as well as many other benefits to the body. I use it on my civie (60mg sid) who is borderline stomatitis (severe inflammation of the gingiva) combined with brushing.

I just wanted to touch on the protocol for reducing dose with Morlei. If you have even an inkling of susupicion that she may be acro (does she show any other symptoms besides insulin resistance and large size? does she snore, have a ravenous appetite, eat non-food items, have a heart murmur, big paws, unusual extra-cuteness :lol: ) you may want to reduce dose if you get in the very low blues. We try to keep Charlie out of the greens since they still have a working pancreas, and if the tumor output slows down you could be at risk of a hypo. My vet was at the Western Veterinary Conference a couple months ago and she is super interested in acro now that Charlie is her patient and she went to a seminar on acro and endocrinology. The presenter (Dr. Catharine Scott-Moncrieff) said that she is now recommending that diabetic cats who weigh over 11 pounds get tested for acro whether they are showing signs of insulin resistance or not. She is finding that 10% of those cats have acromegaly.
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-She breathes loudly every so often, not really snoring I guess because she does it while she's awake. We actually took her in last summer for this issue because it concerned us (months before the diabetes dx) and they did an x-ray and said she was pre-asthmatic and needed to lose some weight, nothing else was ever mentioned.
-She seems to want to eat a lot but that's how she's always been since we got her 9 years ago, the ravenous appetite and meowing increased in the weeks before her dx but have now seemed to calm down to pre-dx levels. She'll go finish the food off of the other cats' plates (they get low carb too) but doesn't follow me around asking for food...she only meows when I get the cans out.
-Sometimes she'll chew on our broom when we leave it out but that's about it for non-food items.
-Vet listened to her heart yesterday and said she didn't hear a murmur.
-I don't think she has big paws but I did read that many owners don't notice changes in appearance because they see them everyday.
-She's very cute, I don't know if it's unusual extra-cuteness though :smile: My fiance would definitely say she's unusually extra-cute haha

Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
A good example is to have the vet use a small size kitty tube for the throat if going under anesthesia for dental or some other procedure because of a possible soft tissue growth in the throat. It's also advisable to avoid pilling acro cats for the same reason.
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Because of this possibility, should I just pay for the acro test during the pre procedure bloodwork? The vet said we wouldn't have to do the bloodwork before because we only did it three months ago but I really don't want to take any chances with the anesthesia.
 
ECID isn't just a slogan - it's absolutely true, Becky. every cat is different - regardless of whether your cat has acromegaly or not. i can't help but feel like there is a cart going before the horse here.

i have an acro cat. he was diagnosed nearly a year ago. he takes pills daily without any problem. he has had anesthesia multiple times without problems. he goes into low numbers (34 yesterday) without a problem and responds to high carbs just like any other cat. IF a cat has acromegaly or insulin resistance, they still are individuals and still respond individually to everything.

it's easy to look at a dose of 6units and suspect something. and there might be something there - but you don't know. you DO know that your cat has bad teeth and needs a dental. and we have seen many times that cats who need their teeth fixed often need more insulin.

if you are nervous about the anesthesia, the things that will help are to make sure there is a separate anesthesiologist, the dental is actually done by the vet, not a tech, and if there are any heart concerns, get an echocardiogram done in advance. if you suspect acromegaly, the recommendation is to use one size smaller breathing tube to prevent any swelling. getting the diagnosis doesn't necessarily change the care you give your cat.
 
While people are throwing stuff at you... did the vet talk about how slowly you need to have her lose weight? My vet told me Maverick needed to lose weight and we restricted his calories. He almost died because of it and needed a feeding tube for ten weeks. When ever I see weight loss mentioned my spidey senses go up and I get on my safe weight loss soap box :lol: Maverick's story is in my signature - FHL is something every cat owner needs to know about. So please read it.

Safe weight loss in a cat is very very slow and closely monitored. 1 to 2% a week. And you can't use a human scale - get a 50$ pet scale/baby scale or shipping scale that weighs to the ounce off of amazon. It can help catch future issues too. It caught Maverick's diabetes before any other symptoms showed up and saved us a fortune. And after a few weeks of 1-2% a week loss you take a week or two off to give the liver a chance to recover.

So don't do blind weight loss. And share with other cat owners about the dangers of putting a cat on a diet. Lots of people have no idea. I sure wish someone had mentioned it to me. Cat's biologies are unlike most other animals - I think bunnies are susceptible also.
 
julie & punkin said:
ECID isn't just a slogan - it's absolutely true, Becky. every cat is different - regardless of whether your cat has acromegaly or not. i can't help but feel like there is a cart going before the horse here.

i have an acro cat. he was diagnosed nearly a year ago. he takes pills daily without any problem. he has had anesthesia multiple times without problems. he goes into low numbers (34 yesterday) without a problem and responds to high carbs just like any other cat. IF a cat has acromegaly or insulin resistance, they still are individuals and still respond individually to everything.

it's easy to look at a dose of 6units and suspect something. and there might be something there - but you don't know. you DO know that your cat has bad teeth and needs a dental. and we have seen many times that cats who need their teeth fixed often need more insulin.
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Thanks Julie, you are always the voice of reason...and always when I need it too. :smile:
I guess I'm just used to being able to control everything and I'm so frustrated that I can't control this...especially since it involves one of my babies. And now I feel like the diabetes is controlling us, we can't have friends over during her meals because she gets scared and won't eat, we can't go out because we always have to be home for a meal or a shot...it has actually put a strain on our relationship too. This makes me not want to have kids!
I try to remember that I am doing the best I can for Morlei with the information I'm given and the resources I have.
But enough of me complaining...ok my plan is to stick to my original plan haha. Regular bloodwork/ECG before dental, dental, wait a bit to see if numbers go down, if not test for acro/iaa.
 
I'm going to thrown in my 2 cents. I'm not big on doing lots of things all at once. IMHO, if you go that route, you generally have no way to systematically figure out what is going on. I'd pick a place to start and develop a strategy from there. I'm a big proponent of one step at a time.

Initially, you felt like getting a dental made the most sense. Frankly, I agree with you. Whether Morlei ends up being a high dose kitty or not, you're still going to need to get the dental done. The links I provided you with will let you ask questions of your vet to insure that Morlei gets the best possible care from anesthesia to post-procedure recovery. If you have a concern about the endotracheal tube, ask your vet to use a small tube for intubation.

FWIW, there are a number of cats here who's Lantus dose was at around where Morlei's dose currently is. One of those cats, Randi's Max, is now OTJ and has been for quite some time. Remember, not every cat needs only 1.0u of insulin. Like Julie said, ECID. If Morlei needs a dental, that can easily contribute to his needing more insulin.

Also, not every cat that is a high dose cat has acro. Sandy/Black Kitty can give you volumes of information regarding having a cat with insulin resistance. BK was up to a rather high dose for a couple of years and is now OTJ. A dental, two dentals in fact, if I'm recalling correctly, helped to lower BK's insulin needs dramatically.

Don't get overwhelmed. People are throwing a lot of information at you. However, you are the one (and your DH) who know Morlei the best. Trust your gut.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Vitamin C may effect acid balance which could result in crystals so I'd be careful.
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Actually, vitamin C is used to prevent/treat urinary crystals in cats -- crystals tend to form in alkaline urine, not acidic urine. Cats do indeed make their own vitamin C, but it may not be sufficient in times of infective stress -- just as humans require much more vitamin C in our diets when fighting infections than we do simply to avoid scurvy.
 
not much to add to the great advice you've already received other than to add my voice to the 'Dental' crowd. Rupert's numbers changed DRASTICALLY after his tooth extraction. He was floating in some seriously high numbers for a while there and we are now just under one month after his dental and he's had three dose reductions in 8 days...I'm sure it's related. Hopefully your vet will do xrays and really search and not just do the standard tooth scraping/plaque removal thing. Rupert's teeth looked fine 'on the surface' and it was only the xrays that showed up the reabsorption and infection that was going on. I was concerned re the anaethesia too, but then realized that it's almost better to get it done when their numbers are high because they are less likely to 'crash', rather than trying to wait until they become more normal.. if you get my meaning... high numbers they have somewhere to go downwards! I argued with my last vet (who I fired) because she refused to do a dental on Rupert until his numbers were regulated.. had to point out to her that we couldn't GET his numbers regulated until the infection was dealt with. Went to new vet, who is a dental specialist, and she had no problem doing the work. They monitored him closely the whole day. he had his shot the night before but no shot the morning of... this works well because it almost ensures that their numbers will go a little high (so therefore a lot safer). After the dental our vet recommended something called 'Healthy Mouth', it's an additive you put in their drinking water. I guess it's like mouthwash for animals! Anyway, she swears by it and says it really helps kill the mouth bacteria and is good for maintenance. it's green (!) and looks odd but they don't seem to mind it in their water so all my cats have it now. Can't say whether it's making a difference but it's sure worth a try.


good luck!!!!!!
 
Vidya & Boo said:
Sienne and Gabby said:
Vitamin C may effect acid balance which could result in crystals so I'd be careful.
Click to expand...

Actually, vitamin C is used to prevent/treat urinary crystals in cats -- crystals tend to form in alkaline urine, not acidic urine. Cats do indeed make their own vitamin C, but it may not be sufficient in times of infective stress -- just as humans require much more vitamin C in our diets when fighting infections than we do simply to avoid scurvy.
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Actually, struvite crystals tend to form in alkaline urine, calcium oxalate stones tend to form in acidic urine...acidifying the urine is not necessarily a good thing. If I had to pick, I'd want struvite crystals....they can be dissolved by dietary manipulation. Calcium oxalate stones can form in the kidneys and they require surgery for removal in most cases.

Dr. Lisa is a vet who sometimes posts on FDMB, her site has a section on feline urinary tract health....there's all sorts of interesting info there. She discusses the effects of acidifying the diet here.

Here's another site that discusses calcium oxalate stones. It specifically suggests avoiding Vitamin C supplementation in order to prevent calcium oxalate stones.

Any supplement should be discussed with your vet....even common vitamins/minerals can cause problems. The vet should suggest the appropriate dose of any supplement if it is recommended. I'm all for using supplements when appropriate...but please make sure you do the appropriate research for yourself and talk to the vet first.

Off the soap box now..... ;-)
 
I think the vet said that one of those tests would cost around $160 so I definitely think I will take your advice Julie and wait on that and see how she does after the dental...if no change after a few months we'll look into other possibilities.
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The tests are not expensive at all - one is $49 and the other is $15:

IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test

I had Shadoe tested when she was at 9u, she rose to 14u by the time of her dental, when she dropped to 2.75u and stayed low for months... she was still positive for acro.

Shadoe and Randi's Max were neck and neck in dosing till Max hit around 6u BID. At that time, he seemed to 'break', and dropped to OTJ. Max was never tested and could well have been an IAA kitty.

My Oliver tested positive for acro and IAA and is currently OTJ after becoming very sick from vaccines. His reaction likely triggered his OTJ current state, but I consider him as still acro because the tumor still exists; only the hormone secretion has stopped.

Sandy's BK was positive for IAA and it's known that you can break the IAA as it is temporary.
Oliver's IAA was broken about 3 months after starting insulin treatment after I adopted him.

I would avoid BG under 100 until you know if Morlei is resistant because cats with acromegaly are not diabetics, they just happen to have diabetes because of the growth hormone output.
Stop the output and there is no need for insulin.... just look at my Oliver who was at 37u BID, then down to 21u BID and within 10days, he was OTJ, and still is to this day.
 
Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
I think the vet said that one of those tests would cost around $160 so I definitely think I will take your advice Julie and wait on that and see how she does after the dental...if no change after a few months we'll look into other possibilities.
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The tests are not expensive at all - one is $49 and the other is $15:

IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test

I had Shadoe tested when she was at 9u, she rose to 14u by the time of her dental, when she dropped to 2.75u and stayed low for months... she was still positive for acro.

Shadoe and Randi's Max were neck and neck in dosing till Max hit around 6u BID. At that time, he seemed to 'break', and dropped to OTJ. Max was never tested and could well have been an IAA kitty.

My Oliver tested positive for acro and IAA and is currently OTJ after becoming very sick from vaccines. His reaction likely triggered his OTJ current state, but I consider him as still acro because the tumor still exists; only the hormone secretion has stopped.

Sandy's BK was positive for IAA and it's known that you can break the IAA as it is temporary.
Oliver's IAA was broken about 3 months after starting insulin treatment after I adopted him.

I would avoid BG under 100 until you know if Morlei is resistant because cats with acromegaly are not diabetics, they just happen to have diabetes because of the growth hormone output.
Stop the output and there is no need for insulin.... just look at my Oliver who was at 37u BID, then down to 21u BID and within 10days, he was OTJ, and still is to this day.
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MSU is the only lab that tests for acromegaly (IGF-1) right? Makes sense to have them do the IAA at the same time.
I've been reading about acromegaly and the explanation given in the Acromegaly/IAA/Cushings Group on here is the best one I found, so in an acrocat all we can do is attempt to combat the IGF-1 by giving higher doses of insulin?
I'll give the vet a call this week, she's going to think I'm nuts haha, but if I'm willing to pay for it they shouldn't care! Also, on the IGF-1 test link you gave me it says that Wednesday is the day tests are started...what does that mean exactly? Do they only start the test on that day? So if I were to take Morlei down on a Tuesday to get her blood drawn, the vet sends it off and MSU gets the sample Thursday, they wouldn't start the test until the next Wednesday?

Karrie and Maverick said:
While people are throwing stuff at you... did the vet talk about how slowly you need to have her lose weight? My vet told me Maverick needed to lose weight and we restricted his calories. He almost died because of it and needed a feeding tube for ten weeks. When ever I see weight loss mentioned my spidey senses go up and I get on my safe weight loss soap box :lol: Maverick's story is in my signature - FHL is something every cat owner needs to know about. So please read it.

Safe weight loss in a cat is very very slow and closely monitored. 1 to 2% a week. And you can't use a human scale - get a 50$ pet scale/baby scale or shipping scale that weighs to the ounce off of amazon. It can help catch future issues too. It caught Maverick's diabetes before any other symptoms showed up and saved us a fortune. And after a few weeks of 1-2% a week loss you take a week or two off to give the liver a chance to recover.

So don't do blind weight loss. And share with other cat owners about the dangers of putting a cat on a diet. Lots of people have no idea. I sure wish someone had mentioned it to me. Cat's biologies are unlike most other animals - I think bunnies are susceptible also.
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No she didn't mention how slowly Morlei is supposed to lose weight but I've read and re-read the info on Dr. Lisa's website about weight loss and calculated the max amount she can lose per week (4.28 oz) but would prefer her to stay around 1% (2.14 oz). At a rate of 1% per week she would lose about 1/2 lb in a month, but that's also at her current weight, once her weight starts going down I'll have to reevaluate because the amount she can lose will go down as well.
Using Dr. Lisa's formula on her website I calculated that our starting point is 233 calories (this is with a 12 lb goal, I think the doctor said a lower number the last time we saw her but I would prefer to do it in stages). Dr. Lisa's website does say that this is often a generous starting point but to feed it for two weeks and see what happenes. So right now Morlei is on 7.5 oz of FF...FF is on average about 90 cal a can so she's at 225 cal, and she eats a little bit of what's left on the boys' plates so that'll make up the last few remaining calories.
I'll go on Amazon now and look at scales, we definitely need one. Thanks for being concerned, I was worried about putting her on a diet because of the differences in cats but I figure if we follow Dr. Lisa's website and take it slow we'll hopefully be ok.

ETA: I'm thinking of buying this one, good reviews, prime shipping, what do you think?
http://www.amazon.com/FAO-Schwarz-Toddl ... 498&sr=1-1
 
MSU is the only lab that tests for acromegaly (IGF-1) right? Makes sense to have them do the IAA at the same time.
I've been reading about acromegaly and the explanation given in the Acromegaly/IAA/Cushings Group on here is the best one I found, so in an acrocat all we can do is attempt to combat the IGF-1 by giving higher doses of insulin?
I'll give the vet a call this week, she's going to think I'm nuts haha, but if I'm willing to pay for it they shouldn't care! Also, on the IGF-1 test link you gave me it says that Wednesday is the day tests are started...what does that mean exactly? Do they only start the test on that day? So if I were to take Morlei down on a Tuesday to get her blood drawn, the vet sends it off and MSU gets the sample Thursday, they wouldn't start the test until the next Wednesday?
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if you like, you can ask your vet to call MSU to find out what day the tests are run, and then you can plan when to have the draw done and sent via FEDEX to MSU the LAB.
For the acro test: Assays are set-up on Wednesdays, with results available on Fridays. Turnaround time is dependent on the date when the sample is received.
Turn Around Time: 4-9 Days
Days Test Started: Wed

For the IAA test: there is no set date mentioned on the MSU info sheet, so maybe your vet can ask about it.
One thing to note is that it may be a good idea to fast Morlei if you have had any note of lipemia on any past bloodwork results. My Oliver had no such issues but Shadoe always had this issue.
Additional Information
Avoid hemolysis or lipemia.
Turn Around Time: 2-7 Days
Days Test Started: Varies

Dental issues can have an extreme effect on Morlei's numbers, and from personal experience with Shadoe, she dropped from 14u down to 2.75u, a pretty significant and scary fast drop.

I have experience with two entirely different acro cats. One was fine with pills; the other detested them and spit them out every chance she got. Both have had anesthesia, and one had a problem, passing upon recovery from anesthesia. Anesthesia is a serious issue. Both of mine have had low numbers; one responded well to high carb, but the other clearly did not respond to high carb ever and stayed low.
Until you know all info, be very careful how you proceed. Be cautious for your Morlei's sake.
 
Becky --

The cost for the tests are reasonable. It's the shipping that's expensive. According to the Fee Schedule on the MSU website, the dose for the Insulin Autoantibody (#20031) test is $15 and for Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (#20005) is $59. Both tests are listed under the Endocrinology section of the Fee Schedule. All of the information on shipping, forms, etc. is on the link I provided.
 
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