4/7 Silver AMPS 202 - UPDATE

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm sorry Silver has to be at the vet, but he will get good care there. I'm glad DCIN is able to help you. Try to breathe and relax a little bit. I know that is not easy. We are here for you if you need to post about anything. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Juliet. I'm in Milton, about 30km west of Toronto on the 401.
I have not carefully read every post so is this right?
He's not eating, you gave him shot, he does not appear to be nauseated, you can't force feed.
First off. I dislike the term syringe feeding because it does not prepare people for what they're about to do, it's force feeding. I know it can be just awful but cats will starve themselves to death before eating if they're sick enough. I saved Andrew's life doing it and I cried over and over again. It does not have to be a lot as long as it's something.
I think you're on Lantus so I'm no help there.
I know 2 great vets in Milton. Deb Hawkins and Dr. Aziz at Robinson. Aziz does his own urine and blood-work.
http://www.hawkinsanimalhospital.com/
https://robinsonpethospital.ca/
The emergency clinic in Mississauga is huge, MRI in the basement etc. I hate them. They overcharge, no compassion, have misdiagnosed us twice.
http://vetemergency.ca/

What works for me. Whiskas Temptations makes all the cats here nuts for food. Crumble it up in the food, the whole bag if you have to. It will affect his numbers in a bad way. Heating the food, moving the plate, begging, brushing, rubbing ears. I've done it all and suddenly they want food again.

Crap. Just read you're off to the vet. I'll leave this post up anyways and I am going to send you both all my love. Money would be better but right now I can't. :bighug:
 
carfurby said:
I'm sorry Silver has to be at the vet, but he will get good care there. I'm glad DCIN is able to help you. Try to breathe and relax a little bit. I know that is not easy. We are here for you if you need to post about anything. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
Thank you. Appreciate you being here the last several weeks Carla.
 
Noah & me (GA) said:
Hi Juliet. I'm in Milton, about 30km west of Toronto on the 401.
I have not carefully read every post so is this right?
He's not eating, you gave him shot, he does not appear to be nauseated, you can't force feed.
First off. I dislike the term syringe feeding because it does not prepare people for what they're about to do, it's force feeding. I know it can be just awful but cats will starve themselves to death before eating if they're sick enough. I saved Andrew's life doing it and I cried over and over again. It does not have to be a lot as long as it's something.
I think you're on Lantus so I'm no help there.
I know 2 great vets in Milton. Deb Hawkins and Dr. Aziz at Robinson. Aziz does his own urine and blood-work.
http://www.hawkinsanimalhospital.com/
https://robinsonpethospital.ca/
The emergency clinic in Mississauga is huge, MRI in the basement etc. I hate them. They overcharge, no compassion, have misdiagnosed us twice.
http://vetemergency.ca/

What works for me. Whiskas Temptations makes all the cats here nuts for food. Crumble it up in the food, the whole bag if you have to. It will affect his numbers in a bad way. Heating the food, moving the plate, begging, brushing, rubbing ears. I've done it all and suddenly they want food again.

Crap. Just read you're off to the vet. I'll leave this post up anyways and I am going to send you both all my love. Money would be better but right now I can't. :bighug:
Click to expand...
I did try the temptations. No luck. I tried force feeding. No luck either. I'm in Brampton. Not far from Milton.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
I'm so glad Silver is getting the care he needs. DCIN in incredible!

And good on you, Juliette for taking him in last night, he may have been much worse off had you waited.
Click to expand...
I'm still in shock that there are people out there that give help like this to strangers in another country who they'll never meet. And yes. I'm glad I went in last night. I won't take chances with his health.
 
You can still take the meters in at any point you go to visit him whilst he is there, tell them your concerns and try to get the same sample they use when they are measuring his BG.

Because of this episode, you're going to have to go forward with Silver assuming he is ketone prone and you will have to find a way to make monitoring for ketones part of your FD management regime. I know the blood meter strips are expensive. Maybe save up for one and in the meantime (or if you figure a way to make them work) use ketostix, they are cheap.

I know you have 2 cats and they don't pee in front of you, but there are ways around this. You can get litter that is non absorbing and test whatever you find in the box when you wake in the morning or when you arrive home. You won't know which urine belongs to whom, but the failsafe is if ketones are present, you assume it is Silver and act accordingly (giving fluids, feeding him more calories/higher carb food, etc.).

If you can get some anti nausea and appetite stiumulating meds from the vet to have on hand for any future episode where he is off his food, that would be a great thing.

Just breathe and try not to be overwhelmed: Silver is being taken care of, you can get some rest today, and you will figure a way to make this all work going forward. It also sounds like you have a couple FDMB people not too far from you, what a great thing that is. :bighug:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
You can still take the meters in at any point you go to visit him whilst he is there, tell them your concerns and try to get the same sample they use when they are measuring his BG.

Because of this episode, you're going to have to go forward with Silver assuming he is ketone prone and you will have to find a way to make monitoring for ketones part of your FD management regime. I know the blood meter strips are expensive. Maybe save up for one and in the meantime (or if you figure a way to make them work) use ketostix, they are cheap.

I know you have 2 cats and they don't pee in front of you, but there are ways around this. You can get litter that is non absorbing and test whatever you find in the box when you wake in the morning or when you arrive home. You won't know which urine belongs to whom, but the failsafe is if ketones are present, you assume it is Silver and act accordingly (giving fluids, feeding him more calories/higher carb food, etc.).

If you can get some anti nausea and appetite stiumulating meds from the vet to have on hand for any future episode where he is off his food, that would be a great thing.

Just breathe and try not to be overwhelmed: Silver is being taken care of, you can get some rest today, and you will figure a way to make this all work going forward. It also sounds like you have a couple FDMB people not too far from you, what a great thing that is. :bighug:
Click to expand...
I can't do the ketones thing. I have tried and failed. DCIN already pay for my strips. I can't afford the regular ones as it is. I'd never know which cat's pee I saw. I will just have to be extra vigilant to watch for changes in him and put water in his food. There is only one litter they will use. Any other kind they pee on the floor. And that is pine absorbent litter.
 
Hi Juliet - Hang in there. You are doing the best you can. I know how hard it is when a kitteh is not eating or cooperating well. We've gone thru it too.

With Leo we ended up with a lymphoma diagnosis, and that caused intestinal issues, which led to not eating. We dosed prednisolone, which reduced the intestinal swelling and brought him back. But getting to that point was a lot of work, including messy syringe feeding.

It's worth putting in the extra time now. It's hard work, but you can help get Silver through this tough spot. Healing vines for you.
 
Juliet said:
I can't do the ketones thing. I have tried and failed. DCIN already pay for my strips. I can't afford the regular ones as it is. I'd never know which cat's pee I saw. I will just have to be extra vigilant to watch for changes in him and put water in his food. There is only one litter they will use. Any other kind they pee on the floor. And that is pine absorbent litter.
Click to expand...

Keep trying with ketones, mull it over and give it some more thought, you don’t need a solution today, I know you can figure something out that will work. If you wait to see changes in him, it might be an advanced situation by then like it was last night. Ketones can show up before symptoms do, that’s why it’s the best home diagnostic tool to prevent DKA.

The strips yes, they are paid for and you should use them. However, test the meters against lab/vet numbers while you have the opportunity. It is possible it’s just that one meter that is reading faulty, and if you can figure that it is, the manufacturer should replace it for you, gratis.
 
Juliet said:
I can't do the ketones thing. I have tried and failed. DCIN already pay for my strips. I can't afford the regular ones as it is. I'd never know which cat's pee I saw. I will just have to be extra vigilant to watch for changes in him and put water in his food. There is only one litter they will use. Any other kind they pee on the floor. And that is pine absorbent litter.
Click to expand...

This is kinda gross but... is it a hardwood floor? If so, you've got your sample!
 
Juliet said:
I have tried and failed.
Click to expand...
You have not failed at anything Juliet. I've been doing this a long time, cried a lot, lost lots of cats. We are always here for you.
Try and get some sleep this weekend and please don't fall into the guilt trip of sitting on a plastic chair for 12 hours in a waiting room when there's nothing you can do. You're a good cat mum.
 
Hey, if it helps I can get you a reli-on meter and 100 test strips, my treat but you won’t get them until Tuesday as I have to go to Buffalo and can fed ex them to you....let me know.

Or shoot me a picture of the test strips box you use and I can see if they are available. Much cheaper in USA. I pay u$17.50 for 100 test strips......

If I can help, let me know and if the test strips you use are available I’ll buy you a bunch and send them to you
Shawna
 
Am home from vet. Silver is being given short acting insulin to lower his BG and get rid of the keytones. Also they did urinalysis to check for UTI.

@Stacy & Asia i will get those testing strips and try again. When he's better how often to test for keytones? Someone suggested putting cling wrap in the litter tray would that work? Would cat use tray with cling wrap over the litter? I'd not know which cat but if I checked and if saw keytones I know it would be silver.

Exhausted and going to try sleeping. @Chris & China reminded me to eat so gonna do that then sleep. Vet will call me in 6 and a half hours for update.

Soooooo grateful to DCIN!
 
Shawna & Davidson said:
Hey, if it helps I can get you a reli-on meter and 100 test strips, my treat but you won’t get them until Tuesday as I have to go to Buffalo and can fed ex them to you....let me know.

Or shoot me a picture of the test strips box you use and I can see if they are available. Much cheaper in USA. I pay u$17.50 for 100 test strips......

If I can help, let me know and if the test strips you use are available I’ll buy you a bunch and send them to you
Shawna
Click to expand...
I'm in Canada I don't think we can get relion strips here. I checked both my meters @Stacy & Asia with what the vet got this morning. The accucheck was exact same reading. None of the meters I have are faulty but freestyle reads low. I've looked at lots of ss and whenever a switch is made from AlphaTrak to freestyle numbers drop dramatically. Accucheck measures sand as AlphaTrak.

I'm comfortable knowing to mentally adjust the freestyle meter readings to vet's readings until I run out of freestyle strips then I'll switch back to accucheck.
 
Julie.........take some saran wrap (plastic wrap of any sort) and put it directly over the litter in the box(s), flatten it out a bit so that it makes a dent at the bottom - you can push the litter to the sides. Then when Silver goes to pee it will just float on the plastic and you can do a test then, or with one of the large syringes for feeding, take a pee sample and take it to the vet so they can test further. Just hang around so that when he goes to pee you can go right after so he doesn't try to bury it. It's simple, I did it for Davidson lots of times........
 
Juliet said:
I'm in Canada I don't think we can get relion strips here. I checked both my meters @Stacy & Asia with what the vet got this morning. The accucheck was exact same reading. None of the meters I have are faulty but freestyle reads low. I've looked at lots of ss and whenever a switch is made from AlphaTrak to freestyle numbers drop dramatically. Accucheck measures sand as AlphaTrak.

I'm comfortable knowing to mentally adjust the freestyle meter readings to vet's readings until I run out of freestyle strips then I'll switch back to accucheck.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know were you are I'm in Fort Erie/Niagara area and Buffalo is 5 min. away............I can go for you as I cross over all the time. I can get the type you have too if you tell me what you have exactly, or attach a picture. I don't use Accucheck but if you need more strips I'd be happy to buy you some.........my treat!
 
Shawna & Davidson said:
Julie.........take some saran wrap (plastic wrap of any sort) and put it directly over the litter in the box(s), flatten it out a bit so that it makes a dent at the bottom - you can push the litter to the sides. Then when Silver goes to pee it will just float on the plastic and you can do a test then, or with one of the large syringes for feeding, take a pee sample and take it to the vet so they can test further. Just hang around so that when he goes to pee you can go right after so he doesn't try to bury it. It's simple, I did it for Davidson lots of times........
Click to expand...
Brilliant. Thank you! The things we do for our babies.
 
So happy to hear you are getting help (how incredible of DCIN!) and that Silver is at the vet for a stay - I think they will take good care of him. Hugs :bighug: and vines your way.

PS - what I do for a urine sample is just close the door in the room with the litter box, then wait two hours or so (or until it looks like he wants to go into the room) and then wait for him to use the litterbox. Have a throw away small bowl ready, and just stick it under his stream! Sounds gross but it's the easiest way to do it.

Good luck with everything, I will be thinking of you today.
 
For those of you following along, just a reminder that DCIN needs your support to be able to help kitties like Silver!

Of course we'll help no matter what, but if you'd like to help with Silver's bills, please consider a donation!

Our Critical Care Fund is already in deficit from what we've paid out already this year, so any amount will help!

If you need more information, please feel free to send me a Private message.
 
Last edited:
Juliet said:
When he's better how often to test for keytones? Someone suggested putting cling wrap in the litter tray would that work? Would cat use tray with cling wrap over the litter? I'd not know which cat but if I checked and if saw keytones I know it would be silver.
Click to expand...

Exactly, you would treat any ketones you see as his and act as if. Looks like you got good suggestions re: cling wrap. I use a disposable paper cup attached to the end of a dowel rod for Asia (not pretty, but it works and is cheap), but I know Silver won’t use the LB in front of you. Amanda’s suggestion is good too, if you got a small litter tray and put him in another room (bathroom?) maybe right after eating, you could get a sample that way. I don’t know Silver’s patterns, but Asia eats and predictably goes to pee right after eating.

When he comes home, I would make every attempt to get a daily test for ketones. When they get back it doesn’t mean they are 100% it takes them a bit to regain their strength and get back right again and that is a critical time for you to preserve the work done in the ER. After the immediate crisis is over, I would test weekly to be safe and more that that when you have any indication of ketone likeliness:

  • He’s spending time in higher numbers than usual, or has lost regulation/his usual pattern on insulin
  • He’s not eating as much as usual
  • Losing weight or looks like he has lost weight
  • He’s acting off in any way
Though it is uncommon, some cats make ketones even in low or normal numbers. The best things you can do are:

  • Make sure he gets enough food/calories and is eating (have rx at home to help with nausea/appetite stimulation if needed)
  • Test for ketones regularly
  • Add water to his food to keep him hydrated
  • Make sure he gets his insulin
 
I use a shallow long handled spoon (Teasel's own personal spoon!) that I slip under his backside as he pees. If you can catch Silver going into the box you might try that.
 
Thanks @Kris & Teasel @Stacy & Asia I'll try the cling wrap thing but his patterns are he goes to use the tray at night only when I am in bed asleep and when I am at work. Neither of them use the tray when I am home. I will use the cling wrap but I won't know which cat I am testing. Hopefully both. I used the strips before and could barely tell it's change in color when it touched urine so I must have done it wrong. Will buy cling wrap and test sticks tomorrow.

So. If he stops eating or acts odd take to vet immediatelyyest for ketones daily until this is over then weekly.

Re his numbers. I will have to switch back to accucheck as it measures same as vet. On freestyle his numbers were just above 200 and therefore not too bad. But vet and accucheck has him in the pinks. So all the yellows I see on the ss since the meter change are really pink. Meter not faulty. This is a plus or minus 20% thing. Accucheck pink minus 20% and freestyle yellow add 20% is same number. So it's allowed but basically it's 40% difference between the two.
 
Juliet said:
I'll try the cling wrap thing but his patterns are he goes to use the tray at night only when I am in bed asleep and when I am at work. Neither of them use the tray when I am home. I will use the cling wrap but I won't know which cat I am testing. Hopefully both. I used the strips before and could barely tell it's change in color when it touched urine so I must have done it wrong. Will buy cling wrap and test sticks tomorrow
Click to expand...

Well how polite of them, not all cats have such manners. Civvie Toki seems to have a habit of using the LB when the humans are eating dinner, especially if guests are over! :confused: :facepalm:

The test strips don’t change color at all if there are no ketones present. I wish it did, just so you know the strip got wet, but that’s how they work. May it never change color for you. :cat:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Well how polite of them, not all cats have such manners. Civvie Toki seems to have a habit of using the LB when the humans are eating dinner, especially if guests are over! :confused: :facepalm:

The test strips don’t change color at all if there are no ketones present. I wish it did, just so you know the strip got wet, but that’s how they work. May it never change color for you. :cat:
Click to expand...
Thanks for getting the first smile out of me today. Toki sounds funny.

Okay so when I used the strips last time then he must have had no ketones. Okay. I'll get some tomorrow. Thanks @Kris & Teasel. Yes I'll continue with freestyle meter then but vet said with the numbers he's had lately he's uncontrolled even tho in yellow - actually. Just thought of this - they have been trending upwards into yellow amps and pmps lately. So maybe this was my fault?
 
Juliet said:
Thanks for getting the first smile out of me today. Toki sounds funny.

Okay so when I used the strips last time then he must have had no ketones. Okay. I'll get some tomorrow. Thanks @Kris & Teasel. Yes I'll continue with freestyle meter then but vet said with the numbers he's had lately he's uncontrolled even tho in yellow - actually. Just thought of this - they have been trending upwards into yellow amps and pmps lately. So maybe this was my fault?
Click to expand...
No, not your fault. Who knows what's behind this lapse into ketosis? It could be a bad tooth that's doing it.
Re ketone test strips: the colour difference between "negative" and "trace" is so small that it can be hard to distinguish. Time the strip properly (usually 15 seconds for colour to develop) and view it in really good light. Once opened, a bottle of strips is good for only 4 months.
 
Juliet said:
How do I flag this post so I can go back to it often?
Click to expand...

I would just copy and paste the thread link into your condo in the comments section. There may be other ways to flag them, you can bookmark too, but I’ve seen a lot of people link them in their SS.
 
Morning Juliet.:bighug: I think you need :coffee:
I got called away last night & now I read it has all been happening up there in Canada world.
I'm very pleased that Silver is getting help and that you have got some rest.

Catching up on it all but first thing.

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Anymore than Ty's pancreatitis was my fault. Bodies do this stuff & decide to go a bit wonky.
If Silver talked human he would have said a bit ago that he felt a bit odd around the edges.
You are a superb Mum & you were onto it.

Can someone please show me the way to DCIN page please? What a fabulous thing that is. Nothing like that here in NZ.
 
PussCatPrince said:
Morning Juliet.:bighug: I think you need :coffee:
I got called away last night & now I read it has all been happening up there in Canada world.
I'm very pleased that Silver is getting help and that you have got some rest.

Catching up on it all but first thing.

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Anymore than Ty's pancreatitis was my fault. Bodies do this stuff & decide to go a bit wonky.
If Silver talked human he would have said a bit ago that he felt a bit odd around the edges.
You are a superb Mum & you were onto it.

Can someone please show me the way to DCIN page please? What a fabulous thing that is. Nothing like that here in NZ.
Click to expand...
Find Chris&China's post #74 and then look for the dark blue "DCIN Critical Care Find" link in her signature test. :)
 
Sending lots of 3E757342-03BE-4073-B8E5-2E6E8CE722D1.jpeg vines your way, I pray silvers gets a speedy recovery, my thoughts are with you guys
 
I should have said this before because I'm closer than almost anyone to Juliet's location.
Sorry Juliet, no car, no money, had an episode last night and I can barely open my eyes. :(
 
I bet so, when bella was first diagnosed with diabetes and vet kept him a cpl days his brother Andy looked and looked for him meowing and meowing, it was sad for Andy but made me happy he loved bella so much, hope all is well Juliet! Please let’s us know when you hear something BIG :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Vet called. Will try and recall everything:

He's started to eat a couple hrs ago so they didn't need to give him appetite stimulant.

He has a UTI which might explain the increases in insulin not bringing his numbers down the last couple weeks. DCIN approved vet to send sample to lab for a culture whatever that means. Something about determining type of antibiotics I think.

They are giving him something for his low potassium levels - what is that?

His BG was 19 (sorry brain not working to do calculation to US numbers) and dropped to 17 during the day. Not too good really. They are continuing to give him short acting insulin to bring down to between 9 and 11 she said.

They will call me again in the morning. They said he didn't appear to be in pain so have not given pain meds as they could cause other problems.

I think I have captured everything this fuddled tired brain managed to grasp.
 
Last edited:
Just getting on now. These are for you Juliet. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Thank you DCIN.

Great news that Silver is eating some! And that they have found the infection source.

They may give potassium through his fluids. When I supplemented at home, it was a tasteless powder added to Neko's food.
 
Juliet said:
DCIN approved vet to send sample to lab for a culture whatever that means. Something about determining type of antibiotics I think.
Click to expand...

Exactly....they put a little urine into special dishes and let the bacteria "grow"....when the bacteria have had a little while to grow, they try different antibiotics to see which one kills that particular bacteria the best.

Lots of different bacteria can cause UTI's....without knowing which bacteria you're fighting, they can only guess at the best treatment (and they usually guess wrong)

Juliet said:
He's started to eat a couple hrs ago so they didn't need to give him appetite stimulant.
Click to expand...

Good news!!! Hope he continues to improve!!!
 
Chris & China said:
Exactly....they put a little urine into special dishes and let the bacteria "grow"....when the bacteria have had a little while to grow, they try different antibiotics to see which one kills that particular bacteria the best.

Lots of different bacteria can cause UTI's....without knowing which bacteria you're fighting, they can only guess at the best treatment (and they usually guess wrong)



Good news!!! Hope he continues to improve!!!
Click to expand...
Did I do something to make him get sick? How did he get the bacteria as an indoor cat?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Just getting on now. These are for you Juliet. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Thank you DCIN.

Great news that Silver is eating some! And that they have found the infection source.

They may give potassium through his fluids. When I supplemented at home, it was a tasteless powder added to Neko's food.
Click to expand...
Yes they did say they put more stuff in his bag.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top