4/7 Gracie PMPS 63 +1 71 +2 64 +3 77

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Marje and Gracie

Marje and Gracie

Member Since 2010
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Yesterday

Recap:
AMPS: 257 1st cycle f1u NEW DOSE
+2: 185
+3: 144
+3.5: 80
+4: 72
+5: 75
+6: 73
+8: 233
PMPS: 349 2nd cycle f1u
+3: 178
+4: 135
+5: 126
+6: 136
+7: 167

Good morning Lantus Land! We are sending our thoughts and prayers to Michelle (Doodle), Karrie (Maverick), Tanya (Minuit), and our dear friends Michelle and Mannie who are remembering their beloved Milo and celebrating his life and his bravery today. Also sending healing vines to those who need them....Butthead, Rocket, Willow, Buddy, and any others.

Gracie had a pretty nice day yesterday with a short bounce which I'm not sure if it was delayed stress from the workmen or a short bounce. She's very quiet this morning...not like her. I'm not sure if she is tired or something else is going on. Her lab tests should all be back today. She ate her 1st breffis really well and was chirpy and purry with me when I gave her morning scritches so I hope she's just getting a slow start to the day because she was up late with Mike and it's a little chilly today.

Last night, Jill visited our condo and wrote:
i'm going to throw another *possibility* out there for your consideration...
it's very possible the reduction to 0.5u was not held long enough to clear the expected bounce before the dose was increased again. the time it takes to clear a bounce can change. same thing was done this morning. too much insulin can cause high numbers. the problem with that is then it takes even more insulin to get back to where you were. you know what i mean... having to go up before you can come back down. we've all fallen into that trap of chasing numbers rather than letting them come to us.
just a thought.
Click to expand...

Of course...that brings up my eternal questions that I hope Jill can answer for me.
1. On bringing the .5u up too quickly, the first cycle looked like a bounce to us; the second cycle looked like a high curve with a nadir. Laurie did tell me it looked like a bounce and see what the next morning looked like and it looked the same; Gracie WAS clearing her bounces fairly fast. So I guess that was totally my bad that I took her up to the last good dose, sk .75u. I was just anxious about spending too much time at a failed reduction. One question I've asked many times with no answer is "how do you tell the difference between a bounce and a failed reduction?". If you don't need to wait six cycles before going back up on a failed reduction, then when do you know to get them back up quickly before they lose momentum?
2. Once on the sk .75u, we gave her 7 cycles and she spent most of the time in high numbers. Even she gets through NDW in pretty quick time. So at this point, we're now worried about the time she is spending above renal threshold and that her liver is forgetting what it's like to be at normal numbers. We raised her after 7 cycles based on this in the protocol:
After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
Click to expand...
What would have been the better thing for us to do here?
3. I jumped the gun on the last increase to f1u yesterday. Jill said to give her until last night but the contractors came a day early yesterday (I didn't expect them) and then things got crazy and I was 15 mins late giving her the shot. I didn't have a chance to turn on the computer and try and remember if she just said "tomorrow" or "tomorrow night"...and it was the latter. I should have stayed the course until I could check it. Gracie had two nice cycles yesterday with a quick bounce in between and a nice AMPS today.

I'm not sure I understand this part of Jill's quote:
too much insulin can cause high numbers. the problem with that is then it takes even more insulin to get back to where you were.
Click to expand...
Is that from NDW?

So, where do we go now besides I need to buy a new pair of patience pants because I didn't get an expensive pair to begin with? :lol: :lol: Seriously...have I totally gummed her up or what should we do at this point? I'm assuming one thing would be to hold this dose as long as she is in safe numbers? Mike and I really want to learn from this. We kicked ourselves in the pants before and now I'm doing it again and I know that was not Jill's intention...there is a lesson to be learned and I want to be clear on this. THANK YOU!!! We do so appreciate it.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140

Hi guys .. oh how I wish I could answer all of your questions .. I can't unfortunately .. we had questions ourselves like yours basically right up to the day mocha was declared OTJ! I do know that we held mocha a lot longer on doses then what we should have, but sometimes we didn't see any action until we got ready to move her to another dose and then bam, she would have several good days of nice numbers .. It always seemed to take mocha longer to show any action on a dose then any other cat around here .. I know ECID and I'm sure it didn't really help any of your questions .. I guess I just felt like babbling :lol:
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96

Devon: I do appreciate your thoughts. And I remember how Mocha would do. I just hope I didn't have Gracie close to the ultimate goal and then ruined it by not being patient.....

Gracie has had breffis +2 and 3 and seems to be feeling fine. She's been playing with Tobey and watching the workers outside. She's so funny....they stress her but she wants to watch their every move. The loud machinery does not seem to bother her at all; she doesn't like it when they walk around the courtyard wall and she can see/hear them from the enclosed patio. Silly girl...at least she is fine. I think she just must have partyed WAY too much last night!!! :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96

Nice to see the bounce cleared this morning and Gracie in the greens already.

((((((Marjorie)))))) Let me know when you find the really good patience pants. :lol: :lol: I don't think you have seriously mess her up, it's just a slight step backward. and that's the sugardance isn't it? I know Tess used to take a really long time to adjust to an increase and waiting it out is the hardest. You don't want to rush it, but you don't want to wait too long and have to go up even further to give them that nudge.

You've asked a lot of good questions and we all would like to see the answers. I'm wondering if an immediate response to an increase might be a sign that they were ready to start coming down anyway and that we jumped the gun w/ the increase? If so, that could be a good learning tool.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 +2.5 76

Ann: I think you're right and I think that was Jill's point. Gracie started responding yesterday morning which was most likely NOT in response to her dosecrease and so if I had waited as Jill suggested, I might have seen her in good numbers last night anyway. And so, I might be fighting to keep her up with this dose. Mike and I have decided to let her have her dosecreases when she earns them as a newly diagnosed FD but instead of a .25u decrease, we'll just shave her and see if we can get her back down the ladder. My problem is, when she's had a reduction, is I cannot tell between a bounce and high numbers from less insulin. We've waited out 72 hours before on the bounces and still had to take her back up because I honestly don't think it takes her a full 72 hours to clear her bounces. So then...what are the high numbers from? There may be a really great answer that I have no clue to and my assumption that she needs more insulin may be dead wrong.....
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 +2.5 76

Marjorie, I wish I had answers, but instead I only have more questions. Namely, where IS the best place to buy patience pants??? Does Macy's carry them??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am anxiously awaiting answers to your questions as they are things I have wondered myself! Just know that you are doing great, and even if you "made a mistake," Gracie will get there. You have not derailed anything. I pro-mise. :-D

Hope you guys have a great day!!

Gracie!! U gotz de bad men at ur house??? We'z gotz to rescue u quick!!! Your pick... whatcha wanna do today? I'll get Mannie an' de bus an' we'll be dere soon! --Willie
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96

i hesitated throwing this possible scenario out there all day yesterday because you could take it as either messing up or something to think about going forward. let me start out by saying, it's easy to be a monday morning quarterback... a whole lot tougher to make the calls as they're happening.

you've been struggling with gracie and more than one of us has studied her ss looking for possible explanations, as well as solutions. that's why i thought it would be a disservice to you not to bring up another possibility... and when i say "possibility", i mean just that... a possibility. there's no way of knowing if this is the case short of actually doing something different.

1. On bringing the .5u up too quickly, the first cycle looked like a bounce to us; the second cycle looked like a high curve with a nadir. Laurie did tell me it looked like a bounce and see what the next morning looked like and it looked the same; Gracie WAS clearing her bounces fairly fast. So I guess that was totally my bad that I took her up to the last good dose, sk .75u. I was just anxious about spending too much time at a failed reduction. One question I've asked many times with no answer is "how do you tell the difference between a bounce and a failed reduction?". If you don't need to wait six cycles before going back up on a failed reduction, then when do you know to get them back up quickly before they lose momentum?
Click to expand...
unfortunately, we don't always know the difference between a bounce and a failed reduction. most, if not all of us look for a scientific answer.
surely, 1 + 1 always equals 2. right? not necessarily. this is the cause of much frustration when dealing with this disease. sometimes i think there is more of an art involved here than anything else.

3/27 AM cycle --- you had to fight to keep gracie's numbers up with a lot of hc... all the way through +10. even with that, she came in at pmps only 20 points higher than the +10 number. it seems reasonable to assume gracie would have fallen dangerously low if you hadn't intervened... followed by a terrific sized bounce. the suggestion was made to reduce to 0.5 unit and you did.

i seriously wonder if the bounce had cleared before the dose was increased again after only 24 hours of the reduced dose at 0.5 unit. i tend to think it had not simply because of the effort it took to keep her from bottoming out. i can't "prove" it. it just seems to make sense to me. i'm brainstorming here... trying to figure out gracie.

2. Once on the sk .75u, we gave her 7 cycles and she spent most of the time in high numbers. Even she gets through NDW in pretty quick time. So at this point, we're now worried about the time she is spending above renal threshold and that her liver is forgetting what it's like to be at normal numbers. We raised her after 7 cycles based on this in the protocol:
After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
Click to expand...
What would have been the better thing for us to do here?
Click to expand...
i would have done exactly the same at that point.

3. I jumped the gun on the last increase to f1u yesterday. Jill said to give her until last night but the contractors came a day early yesterday (I didn't expect them) and then things got crazy and I was 15 mins late giving her the shot. I didn't have a chance to turn on the computer and try and remember if she just said "tomorrow" or "tomorrow night"...and it was the latter. I should have stayed the course until I could check it. Gracie had two nice cycles yesterday with a quick bounce in between and a nice AMPS today.
Click to expand...
gracie had dipped into the 40s two days before you asked about increasing the dose. again, i don't think the bounce had cleared. it can take up to 72 long grueling hours for a bounce to clear.

yesterday you mentioned you didn't think yesterday's AM cycle reflected the increase in dose. i agree with you. i believe you saw what would have happened even if the dose hadn't been increased yesterday morning. given that too much insulin can cause the numbers to rise, if the dose had not been increased yesterday morning, would her numbers have risen into 349 at pmps? there's absolutely no way to know for sure. she may have bounced that high anyway or the increased dose could have contributed to the high pmps number.

with lantus, we have to group together cycles in order to see what is going on and why because of the cumulative action of this insulin. i typically look at 3 days of cycles at a time when trying to analyze a ss. i call them "waves of action". what happens leading up to any particular cycle gives us clues as to why something is happening.

I'm not sure I understand this part of Jill's quote:
too much insulin can cause high numbers. the problem with that is then it takes even more insulin to get back to where you were.
Click to expand...
Is that from NDW?
Click to expand...
no, it's not from NDW, but the explanation is confusing at best. given the phenomenon which we've all seen where too much insulin can actually cause the numbers to rise... it ends up requiring higher doses to break through those numbers. once a break through is achieved, kitty begins to come back down the dosing scale. hence the quote, "sometimes you have to go up in order to come back down".

So, where do we go now besides I need to buy a new pair of patience pants because I didn't get an expensive pair to begin with? :lol: :lol: Seriously...have I totally gummed her up or what should we do at this point? I'm assuming one thing would be to hold this dose as long as she is in safe numbers? Mike and I really want to learn from this. We kicked ourselves in the pants before and now I'm doing it again and I know that was not Jill's intention...there is a lesson to be learned and I want to be clear on this. THANK YOU!!! We do so appreciate it.
Click to expand...
nothing's been gummed up! if it were me, i would hold the current dose for 6 cycles before thinking about increasing the dose (unless the numbers tell you otherwise). she's responding well to it. when the time comes for a reduction, i would try to hold the reduced dose for the full 72 hours before taking the dose back up again if the reduction was made because you had to fight to keep her from plummeting. you know the difference between those cycles when intervention proves easy and the ones where you're working so hard and it's still difficult to keep her numbers up.

please keep in mind my thoughts reflect a possibility. my intention was to bring this possibility to your attention... for your consideration.
i won't be able to get back here until much later today... maybe even tonight, but i will check back.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 +2.5 76 +3 69

Jill..you are most awesome for taking so much time to explain it to us. Right now, she's responding well on this dose, as you observed, and every time I've had her at sk1.25, she puts us through the wringer so I hope I don't have to take her up. So...just to be clear...IF she stalls, give her six cycles after the stall and then take her up to say sk1.25? Also, what do you think about letting her have her reductions as she earns them....in other words, instead of making her go below 50 three times, see if she can hold a reduction now if we shave her after one time under 50?

i hesitated throwing this possible scenario out there all day yesterday because you could take it as either messing up or something to think about going forward. let me start out by saying, it's easy to be a monday morning quarterback... a whole lot tougher to make the calls as they're happening.

you've been struggling with gracie and more than one of us has studied her ss looking for possible explanations, as well as solutions. that's why i thought it would be a disservice to you not to bring up another possibility... and when i say "possibility", i mean just that... a possibility. there's no way of knowing if this is the case short of actually doing something different.
Click to expand...

Jill, please do not ever hesitate to throw out a possibility with Gracie. I need to shed my tendency to blame things on me and just move forward like you said. I do not take it personally...even if you told me "you GOOFED UP!" :lol: :lol: If/when she gives me the opportunity again to take her down and get to that .5u, I do not want to make the same mistake twice. I told Mike that maybe my struggles with Gracie aren't Gracie...maybe they ARE me...I don't hold her doses long enough and let her have some consistency at a dose. I see others holding doses longer and the numbers DO come to them. I think my whole thing is not chasing green but keeping her young body healthy....I worry that if I let her stay above the renal threshold too long that she (with her history of bladder issues) might start having interstitial cystitis again. We've worked so hard to get that addressed and her progress on that has been nothing short of phenomenal anti-jinx.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 76 +3 69 +4 82 +5 86 +7 89 +10

Great day for Gracie...and a great job of getting those numbers! Amazing! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 76 +3 69 +4 82 +5 86 +7 89 +10

HI Marjorie. You know that I know nuttin' about nuttin', so I'm just here to say "hello", and say 'wow' on Gracie's beautiful day. :-D
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 76 +3 69 +4 82 +5 86 +7 89 +10

this condo makes my head hurt. but i love it. very informative. i can't help but think about how i am sitting on dose #60 with Mannie and if anybody has blown it it's me, certainly not you. when I am not so tired I will sit and read this over again - love the info, much to learn here.

Have a great night guys - what a great day for Gracie! All those greens - very nice surf. Well done!

Hey Gracie - I almost made green! Can I surf with you at the green lagoon anyways? ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 76 +3 69 +4 82 +5 86 +7 89 +10

Very interesting stuff in Gracie's condo today (serious stuff for right after a big party!!). And it seems that Gracie has given you more to think about in the great cycle so far today. Golly, Marjorie, I think you and Mike are just fantastic to be able even to try to sort through all of this. How great that Jill is thinking out loud through all the possibilities from her wealth of experience. I'll be following Gracie's progress more closely, because I want to see what happens!!
Have a good evening, all of you. Is the pool work finished yet? Rusty wants to come and hang out.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 76 +3 69 +4 82 +5 86 +7 89 +10

I just got off the phone with our vet and Gracie's ALT is 124; high is 100. She said that with pancreatitis, one would see an elevated ALT but ALL of Gracie's other values are beautifully normal. She said it is possible that the tin accumulation in the liver is contributing to this number but she wants to see her again next week to see if there is a supplement for her liver which would help. Does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc with the ALT being elevated? Thank you!!
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS 140 +2 96 76 +5 86 +7 89 +10 65 ALT HIGH

Since ALT is the only elevated value, it should be monitored. It's possible that there's something up with Gracie's liver or it's possible that it's nothing.

Broadway Veterinary Hospital said:
This is an enzyme that is primarily found in liver cells, although small numbers of red blood cells and striated muscle cells also contain this enzyme. Elevations of ALT occur when any of these cells are even slightly damaged. Extreme exercise, hemolysis of red blood cells, and any liver problem will result in a high ALT. There are many drugs that affect the liver which can cause this elevation. Some of these drugs are glucocorticoids, Acetaminophen (Tylenol®), non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications (like Rimadyl® or Metacam®), antifungal medications, Methimazole, anti-seizure drugs, Tetracycline and many chemotherapy drugs. ...hyperthyroidism should be considered in older cats. Some common causes of liver disease include cholangiohepatitis (an auto-immune disease of the liver), cirrhosis, feline infectious peritonitis, and malignancy. If the ALT is the only liver enzyme elevated, this value should be monitored, since it may be the first sign of emerging liver disease. An elevated ALT does not mean the liver is not functioning normally. Additional tests would need to be done to evaluate this.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

This is Gracie's third cycle on the f1u. I raised her yesterday morning when Jill had advised to leave her dose through last night...but I made the mistake of increasing...long story. Anyway...I fed this (feed the 40s). I also fed her at +10 to bump her up...didn't work. So am stalling.

My question is....when I do have her up enough to shoot...what dose should I shoot? I'd like to give her something that I can stick with. In the past, I have squeezed out a dose in between f1u and 1u...called it a chubby 1u. Wondering if we should try the 1u again?? THANK YOU!
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

Can't predict when she will be high enough to shoot. Using gravy and/or karo? How long can you stall?
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

Hey Barbara...not worried about the stalling ....we can do and I did give her gravy with food. Will continue to test. More worried about the dose. :-D Thanks!!!
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

Hi, Marjorie & Gracie too :-D
As you are aware.. below 50 is a dosecrease, so I would go with the logical plan of care that you have defined for Gracie. Typically is a .25 reduction, but I recall you choosing to shave.. so... does that help?
If not.. an offical advisor will be by..
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

I don't think you will get dose suggestions till the numbers start up. Where is she now?
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

Nicole...yes...thank you!!! We are shaving..good memory. We have been giving her three times below 50 before we give her a reduction but Mike and I thought today we should just let her have a reduction when she earns it like a newly diagnosed cat. So...yes, I'm thinking a shave to 1u.

Barbara: just getting ready to test again. BRB.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 HELP PLS

:-D sometimes it is just stepping back to the protocol & really reading again... I (like all of us) over analyze always.. most of the time the answer is in the protocol.. we beans just make it difficult on ourselves ;-)
YAAAAAY Gracie!!! Go girl gooooooooo! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 +12.25 55 HELP PLS

Up a little...I didn't feed the 55; this is a carb number but hoping a retest in 30 will have her coming up on her own. I'm not comfy shooting a number that I know is carb induced as Gracie does not always get a food spike...meaning I'll have to carb the heck out of her after I shoot cuz she might decide to drop.

Thoughts now? :-D
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 +12.25 55 HELP PLS

Hiya.. what is your question? She dropped below 50 that is a dosecrease.. are you questioning shooting? Or dropping dose by.25, or a shave? ;-)
Someone will see it & advise.. if not.. I would follow protocol
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 +12.25 55 HELP PLS

Nicole: I think we're just going to shoot 1u...a shave, not a .25u decrease. Guess I was looking for validation on what to shoot. :lol:
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 +12.25 55 HELP PLS

What did you feed when she was low? When you are stalling in the 40s usually only a little LC, so you don't get that food spike. If she stays at this level I would shoot, but then you know I'm nutso. :lol: :lol: At least this gives you a bunp if no useable advice.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 +12.25 55

Sienne: my instincts? :lol: :lol: :lol: Not so good I think but I trust yours!!! Thank you :-D :-D

Ann: I gave her 6% with just a bit of MC gravy. I don't mind shooting a 55 as long as I know she'll level out and not turn around on me. And I love your nutsoness!!

Michelle: Well, that's three of us so....now to test again.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie AMPS +10 65 +12 42 +12.25 55

Ok kids...shot the 63 with 1u; fed 10%. Will do a +1. Time for din din. Mike is going back to work Fri morning...3 am wake up.

Thanks for the help!!! Hugs to Barbara, Nicole, Sienne, Ann, and Michelle.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63

Good luck tonight, Marjorie. I can barely hold my eyes open, so I'm off to test Tessie Lou, then ni ni.

It's so frustrating trying to figure this all out! Patience is great, but while we're being patient, we might be gumming up the progress. Aaaaargh! Tessie Lou has had two increases in a week, and is still in the pink. At least Gracie is back in the good colors again. I don't understand the ALT reading being high. What will the vet do about that? Any additional tests suggested?

I'm thinking healing thoughts for sweet Gracie tonight, as I zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63

all righty then... gracie's been busy. looks like that was a break through dose to me! :mrgreen:
chances are, gracie will bounce... either from the AM cycle or from tonight's cycle (depending on where she's headed tonight). this *may* be your chance to sit on your hands and wait the full 72 hours for the bounce to clear. <----------- don't let gracie read that or you know she'll surprise us!

as far as letting her have reductions as she earns them...
try it. she hasn't always held reductions in the past, but she may handle them with no problem now. the only way to find out is to try it.

liver support --- if your vet decides it's what gracie needs, many of us use denamarin or denosyl: http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/Vet/Products/Liver-health.aspx. alex has been on denamarin for about a year now.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63

SOoooooo Where did she go??--Hope she is fine..Lots of questions lots of speculation--
I have never found this disease predictable. Healthy Happy cat=Success!
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63 +1 71

Sandy: sorry I missed you!! Hope you get some rest. I hear you on the frustration of patience. And then BOOM!! They drop on you. The 42 at +12 was the last thing I expected after a beautiful, unaided surf in the 80s all day. I know Tessie Lou will find her dose soon and come down. We will retest Gracie's liver enzymes in a few weeks.

Jill: yes and I am committed to staying the course and holding the dose for 72 hours if she bounces. I WILL I WILL!! :lol: We decided to just try one change so that change will be giving her shaved reductions as she earns them (instead of decreasing her .25u each time). Thanks on the liver support info...I do have this and the vet wants to check her for it next week. I went through all of her bloodwork and she had levels like this as a kitten; then she'd get into the 60s for a while, and then back up. What I need to double check is if any of the samples were hemolyzed.

Roni: so...she's barely moved. We fed her some more 10% food and I'll probably give her even a little more in 30 mins. Next test is +2.
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63 +1 71

looks like Gracie wants to have a pj party!

Rocket kindly declined the invite to the party....he is sleeping now....zzzzzzzzz

nite you two!
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63 +1 71 +2 64

nicely done tonight! what a beautiful pmps, and numbers to follow! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Gracie! to the lagoon! ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63 +1 71 +2 64

Great hooting tonight! You've got a great handle on this one! I think Tess and Gracie are practicing their tandem surfing, I just hope they aren't going in for a marathon. ohmygod_smile We're napping on and off, john has gone to bed for a while and may have to take over later.

Gracie! I love night surfing! We are rocking this! -- Tess
 
Re: 4/7 Gracie PMPS 63 +1 71 +2 64

Thanks Lisa and Michelle: we'll see....she's just starting to onset so....who knows what she'll do. She's a sleepy baby, though.

Ann: I know...great surfing especially if Gracie stays here or a bit higher. Wouldn't you know Mike has been home two weeks and she hasn't done this once....now a late nighter for me as he has to get up at 3 am and get back to work. Oh well!!! Hope Tess continues a great surf.
 
Food spike at +3 I think....I gave her a little extra carbs at +2.5 as she really onsets big time at +3...usually...anti jinx
 
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