4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91 +5 85

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Rachel & Chyna (GA)

Rachel & Chyna (GA)

Member Since 2012
Hello, LL! It's a good thing I'm on my new "unpaid day off Mondays" since Chyna is on a dive. I guess I should have gone with my gut this morning with her not eating well and shot a little lower again. I know it's not protocol...but she keeps giving me greens anyways! She still seems alert and no tummy pain to the touch, and purrs/preens. Her fur isn't looking the best it ever has the past few days.

I'm just not sure what to do anymore. She didn't eat her +6 last night when I got up at +8.5 I spoon fed her most of it and it had the SEB. She ate her half meal sometime between +9 and PS though. The cerenia worked for the first few days and then not, and I skipped last night; the vet was of course closed Sunday so I guess I will have to phone today about the ondansetron. She does need to poop...oil has been given. I'm so scared she is telling me she is done :cry:

Thanks for visiting last night, Shelly and Tricia. I'm not sure what little noses is or how to do a steam treatment on a cat...I have a humidifier? Yesterday: Chyna 4/6

I hope you all have a good day :-D
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65

Oh Rachel,
Don't even think that!!!
I've been finger-feeding Lucy for the past 2.5 years.
If Chyna is eating by spoon-feeding, that's not so horrible.
She just needs a bit of encouragement. :YMHUG:

My vet doesn't want to give me a Rx fro ondansetron either.
She looked it up in the "vet library" thing, and did say that she found information that said ondansetron was effective, but didn't think it was the best first choice of anti-nausea.
As long as cerenia is working, why need another?
So I said OK and didn't push it, at least for now, because cerenia has worked when it needed to.
If your vet doesn't want to give you ondansetron still, I would at least get a re-fill for cerenia (to hold for future) and cypro.
I think it may be easier to squeeze cypro out of them than ondansetron, as often cerenia and cypro are Rx'd together at the vet I go to.....

Sending lots of appy and poo vines to Chyna.
Constipation does make them want to eat less. Poo Chyna, and eat. Your bean is so worried.
Many hugs to you, Rachel. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65

Chyna's numbers ar great, but i know your frustration w/ the food.

If Chyna is alert and purring/preening she isn't done. We were very worried about Tess a few months ago, not eating much and losing weight and overall just not perky looking. since we tried cypro she is eating better gaining weight a little and a much perkier kitteh. :lol: :lol:

Get a Rx from your bet, not the actual pills. It will be much cheaper to go to a pharmacy. See if you can find a coupon online too, i don't know if GooRx works in Canada but there should be something similar. We got cypro for 34¢ a pill with the discount, I think it was China's mom that said her vet charged $1 per pill! You use very little, somewhere between 1/8th and 1/16th of a pill twice a day, depending on how well I manage to cut the tiny little pieces!

Some cats don't poop every day, our civvie Izzy is an alternate day pooper and is fine. If you are worried about constipation have you tried Miralax (generic is polyethylene glycol 3350.) We give Tess 1/8th tsp every evening and an extra dose if she hasn't pooped in the morning. The smallest jar lasts us a year. If you are considering raw remember that cats often poop less with it, they can make use more of it than commercial foods!
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81

Oh, Rachel - :YMHUG: :YMHUG: If she is purring and preening, I don't think Chyna is telling you anything bad.
Is there any old food that she used to love, that isn't quite as low in phos, that you can add the binder to and see if she likes that better? Just as a test, to see if it is the food that is making her less hungry? I also think that the cypro would be a good thing to try. It seems to really help with the appy of our kitties.
Sending appy vines for Chyna - less worry vines for you♥
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81

Rachel, did you get to read the IDEXX article and discuss it with your vet? Ondansetron has really helped Max so much. It is great for nausea. I learned about it when Tiffany got cancer. Otherwise Chyna looks great with the green numbers!! Hang in there. She is acting well. The fact that she will eat to please you but not as much in her own screams of nausea. I've been there too many tines. I'm sorry your vet doesn't get it!!!

Elise
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61

Thanks guys, I'm having a stressful enough week with money and job hunting and I'm ready for a breakdown :? . The good news is, Chyna has no problem eating HC gravy :roll: . We had a small to medium poop and I gave her some lactulose earlier. And NO still no email or call from the vet on getting a prescription and I'll have to call again, I'm really starting to dislike them. I wish I had the time (and money) to hunt for another one!

-Mariko, thanks for the vines. I don't mind spoon feeding, but I am not home from +1.5 to +7 (approx) so I don't know what to do. Cerenia worked for the first 3-4 days it seemed...although apparently I don't need a prescription in Canada for cypro so I'm considering calling the pharmacy close by to see.

-Thanks Ann, I looked cypro up and as I said above maybe I can get the without a prescription and just tell the vet I'm trying it if they bother to talk to me ever :evil: ! They won't give me Miralax so I used the lactulose...Chyna usually poops once a day but sometimes goes two but I worry with her eating issues :oops:

-Hi Jane, thanks. All her old food has chicken so I can't do that test, but the HC she doesn't seem to have issues with...but it's also tuna which she rarely refuses. I may try steak frites later, as she does love those, and try the picking out of potatoes to see if that helps her not spike on it.

-Hi Elise, I've read the article but don't have a vet to discuss it with since they never get back to me :-| . I'll be trying them again today to see if I can get at least get the ondansetron prescription...it's so irritating. I guess I need to date a vet! Or a doctor...

I'm sorry I haven't gotten to condos today, between feeding Chyna etc I am just bagged. Thanks so much for the visits :YMHUG:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61

Eat Chyna eat!!! Good luck getting in touch with the vetty and having a good conversation with them. I'm hoping things on the work/job front improve soon. It's not like having a diabetic CKD cat isn't stressful enough. :YMHUG:

Yeah for poop! The Miralax that Ann mentioned is called Restoralax in Canada and is available at any pharmacy or drug sections of the grocery store. I've been adding a bit of baby food squash to both the kitties fuds and it does seem to be helping. Neko hasn't had much of a problem there but now that she's on bupe regularly I started it as a preventative.

As for steak frites spiking her BG, sometimes you just have to adjust insulin around the food or other issues. Chyna has been looking great lately. You are doing a fantastic job with her.
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61

I hope you can get a little bit of rest on your new day off, Rachel. Chyna's numbers are looking great. I'll leave all of the advice-giving about meds to the experienced users. Just know that I'm sending you giant hugs and lots of prayers. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: .......And if you have a breakdown, we'll be here to pick you up. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Rachel, I actually have a friend that met a vet on-line dating and he has now moved in with her. I would like to have that happen as well!!!

Elise
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Thanks again, for the visits, Wendy, Elise and Shelly. I went out and tracked down both cypro from the pharmacy (I had to try two to find some and it says "cyproheptadine HCL 4mg") and RestoraLAX from the drugstore laxative section (thanks Wendy, I never thought to see if it was non prescription after the vet gave me lactulose instead). Now I don't know which one to use first. Can you use cypro without anti-nausea, should you give it to a nauseous cat? She had slippery elm bark 3 hours ago.

Still only that small to medium poop and Chyna is hiding under the bed from the bean who keeps making her eat :sad: . I tried the steak frites and still no go other than a few spoonfuls. I'm going to do fluids this afternoon and try to get 100ml that Marje suggested instead of the 50 we've been doing till she gets grouchy! Maybe the extra fluids will help. How much Miralax/Restoralax do you use? I guess I have to look all this stuff up...
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Hi Rachel,

You do have a lot on your plate right now. That's interesting that China likes the HC food. Sending prayers for her appetite to increase. That is a good sign that she is purring and preening.
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

HI Rachel. Most start with 1/8 teaspoon miralax. It's a dose to effect thing. That is what I give Max daily and Tiffany got the same amount. If that doesn't work after a couple of days I know people that give it twice a day or 1/4 teaspoon once a day. I mix it into Max's baby food gel cap chaser and he doesn't even know it's there.

Check out felineconstipation.org if you haven't already. Pat has written everything and much more than you want to know about the subject.

Elise
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Rachel,
If you think Chyna might still be nauseated, you want to give cypro with cerenia.
It wouldn't be good if she wants to eat and vomit at the same time, so nausea must be taken care of if you think she's feeling nauseated.
I know it's hard to tell sometimes.

I give 1/4 of 4mg cypro about 30 min before meal time.
Some gives a smaller dose, like 1/8 of 4mg pill, but such a small crumb didn't work for Lucy so well.
She doesn't go crazy, but it seems to cover 2 meals for Lucy, so I only give once a day.
It seems every cat react slightly differently.

I give about 1/8 tsp Miralx (=PEG3350 powder) mixed with her food.
That seems to be a standard dose.
I no longer give this to her regularly because her poops been on a softer side, but when I do, I do 1/8 tsp.

Sending more vines to Chyna.
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Rachel :YMHUG: :YMHUG: I'm sorry Chyna is still not wanting to eat. It is frustrating when you can't figure out what is going on. I hope the new meds will help her.
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Hi Rachael,

I'm so sad to hear that Chyna isn't too interested in eating lately. I think I read that you sometimes will feed her baby food? I always did the Stage 1 baby food instead of the Stage 2 baby food. Stage 1 has only the meat and gravy and no cornstarch in it at all. I always wanted to give Emma and Jomo the easiest food for them to digest when they were sick.

How was it determined that Chyna has a food allergy to chicken? Does she have one to turkey as well? They also make Stage 1 beef baby food but I think she would prefer the turkey.

A few other things jump out at me when I read Chyna's profile. I noticed that you increased Chyna's fluids only just a few weeks ago, or that you were considering to do so. I'm sure you are doing the right thing as Chyna has CKD and needs those fluids a lot as she pees more frequently now. What was the signal for you that she needed more fluids?

I know people here want to chop my head off for ALWAYS suggesting to consider dehydration in your cat when they loose their appetite, and especially when they stop going poop on their own, without the help of laxatives or other drugs/herbs. It's just that I have had a lot of experience with this and when I gave my cats more sub-qs it always gave them a boost when they were ill.

When a cat is dehydrated it's poop gets hard inside of their digestive system and it creates pain for them to push it out of their colon. Sometimes they are not able to push it out. What little fluids their body has is reabsorbed into their system instead of staying in the intestinal tract, as needed. I don't know if you have ever been constipated to the point where you needed an enema, but I'm sure you wouldn't feed much like eating if your intestines were full of dry, hard poop. You might even still feel full even if your stomach was empty. Or-- If Chyna has not eaten much these past few days then she might actually not have very much to poop. Have you considered that too? However, is Chyna is walking back and forth the litter box during the day, and trying to poop but nothing much is coming out, she definitely has something in there that needs to come out.

Have you considered talking to your vet about increasing the amount of fluids that you give to Chyna, even more? Or, do you think she might benefit from IV fluids? (Here come the angry thought daggers coming my way.) Of course talk to your vet about this.. just as you would with any other medicine that is being suggested here at FDMB by others for ongoing nausea.

I understand your dilemma about feeding Chyna cat fish food even if it is her favorite food. That dang canned fish is always loaded with phosphorus which causes the stomach upset in cats. I don't know how well those phosphorus binders work. I also used them with my CKD kitty Emma.

Lastly, anemia will make anyone feel like not eating and you cannot give straight iron pills to correct this. Iron makes the stomach upset. Someone said it was a "home remedy" but Floradix was prescribed to me for Emma by a DVM who was also schooled in cat nutrition and acupuncture. The vet told me that it would NOT constipate my Emma or Jomo at all, and she was correct. Furthermore, upon retesting of their red blood cell count only a few days later, it was found to have increase them nearly back up to their normal level. I never stopped giving it to either of my two sick kitties, one with CKD and the other with chronic pancreatitis, for the rest of their lives. I do believe it helped increase their appy in conjunction with the Zobaline (vitamin B12).

Unfortunately with my sweet Emma, she developed irreversible anemia in the late stages of her CKD, where her body would no longer produce red blood cells. I think it was really more a matter that her bone marrow could not use the small amount of red blood cells that it was making. I then gave my Emma daily Epogen injections, but it was a human form at the time. I do not know if they now have it from cats, for cats. My poor Emma's body responded to the Epogen for about 2 weeks and then her white blood cells went into attack mode as it was a foreign substance inside of her. (for humans) I had her for only about 2 weeks after giving her the daily injections of Epogen.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/erythropoietin.html

I will say some Medicine Buddha prayers for your sweet Chyna today and send her some white healing light.

Hang in their Rachael..I am feeling what you're going through right now, on all fronts, actually..I am giving you a BBH, or a "Big Buddha Hug," as my sangha brothers and sisters call it, through cyber space, and I holding your loving Chyna in my arms.
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

The problem with giving cyro to a nauseous cat is they will eat if it works and then can develop food aversion to the food they are eating. Not a good idea. Tina was writing about anemia. Is Chyna anemic? I had a much better experience with epogen. Tiffany did not build up antibodies to it. I lost her to the return of intestinal lymphoma. She was on epogen for about 8-9 months. So not all cats develop antibodies. I did not use it every day but rather 3 times a week and she got the infant dose which helps to prevent antibodies. There is another newer drug that can be used and the rate of antibodies is much lower. Sadly it is also a human drug. There isn't one especially for cats. The other drug is aranesp. I wouldn't start either drug unless her HC were under 20% though. They have found that iron is not often needed. B vitamins can help if the HCT is just lower than normal. Tiffany's HCT stayed at 25% for a very long time and only got worse from chemo plus an undetected UTI that ruined her kidneys. Usually anemia doesn't happen until late Stage 3 and I got the impression Chyna has mild kidney disease. I hope that is correct.

I just saw her profile. I didn't know she is a tortie. My Tiffany, my special kitty (don't tell Max) was a tortie and looked a lot like Chyna.

Elise
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna AMPS 123 +2.5 65 +4 81 +5.5 61 +7 81

Thanks guys, wow, I'm going to have to read all this through a couple times to get it all! I'm so tierd and my eyes hurt from yeah crying. I'm waiting (again) for the vet tech to call me back, she's checking to see on the email I'd sent last week ohmygod_smile . I did get Chyna to eat an entire mini meal at +8.5 and got 100ml subqs in grumpy Chyna. She is looking much happier (after the stinkeye for awhile after the fluids!).

Catherine, thanks for the prayers and hugs. If only that lottery ticket I had, had won!

Elise, thanks, I gave her lactulose so am not sure if I should give the restoralax yet...I'm holding off a bit but thanks for the doseage, it's hard to look all this up and do all I've been trying to do. I have the constipation site that someone gave me once and have printed it all out a month or so ago :-D . Chyna is at 26.5% at her bloodwork last month and is on the B vitamins so I'm not starting the drugs yet, even my vet agreed on that one:). I have a soft spot for torties, but I may be prejudiced ;-)

Mariko, that was my impression too, to give both. Do you do them at the same time or spaced apart? I still have two cerenia pieces and am giving one tonight. Thanks for your support :-D

Carla, thanks, it has been a frustrating past few weeks...I appreciate the hugs!

Tina, thanks, we don't have those baby foods in Canada, just beef or chicken in broth and the company won't tell you what's in the broth:(. Chyna went on a food elimination diet for allergies, the vet diagnosed. So far it's been chicken, turkey, and the other day duck seemed to make her scratch. So far beef (that I've been testing lately) seems ok. The vet told me to increase to 50mls a day when we did her bloodwork in March and when Marje looked at them for me, she suggested 100ml a day. We are working up to that, she is not a happy camper about fluids. Chyna has been mostly getting at least 3/4 of her fuds, I just have to spoon or finger feed them. She walks away after a few bites from her bowl and seems nauseated. She does get vitamins B and B12 for her mild aenemia but is still at 26.5% so we won't be using the erythropoietin until she's around 20%. Thanks for your prayers and support, it's so nice to have people who love their kitties so much understand :cool:

I think I answered everyones questions...sorry if I missed any. Shot time for Chyna! :shock:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103

((((Rachel))))
I can't be of any help with the various meds, remedies, fluids, etc., but I want to send you some hugs and some feel- better and- eat -vines to Chyna. I hope you can get some cooperation from your vet. That is so frustrating!

Hugs and scritches. Hang in there!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103

You've had quite a day and tons of info and advice...I just want to add our hugs and prayers... :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103

Rachel,
If I know Lucy isn't nauseated, then I give her cypro by itself.
If I'm not sure, yes I give cerenia and cypro together. This way, I pill only one time. Lucy is hard to pill!
I give 1/2 ~ 1/4 tablet of 16mg Cerenia (dose is 1mg/kg, Lucy is little over 5kg, so depending on how pukey she is, I give 1/2 or 1/4) and 1/4 tablet of 4mg Cypro.
Again some people here said 1/4 tablet of cypro "works too well", and give a smaller crumb, but Lucy needs 1/4, so you may need to experiment.
My vet rx'd for 1/4 tablet every 12 hours / as needed.

Don't be disappointed if Chyna doesn't ask for food right away.
Sometimes Lucy starts looking for food about 30 minutes after cypro.
Often it takes about 1 hour to kick in.
Once, I thought cypro stopped working for Lucy, and I was panicking but then she started asking for food 3 hours later. :roll:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103

Rachael I wanted you to know that Floradix is not a prescription medicine and can be purchased at a local health food store, most likely. It looks like it is available in Canada but I am not sure about that.

There is a chance that Chyna is showing you anemia because she is no longer getting the protein intake that she needs. With the reduced protein intake comes reduced amount of iron that is needed to transport oxygen through the red blood cells. Getting the proper amount of iron can help with anemia.

A serrum ferritin blood test is a more sensitive indicator of true anemia rather than the normal hemoglobin test.

http://www.cdnf.com/item1570.htm
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103

I agree with Tina, but you do need to test to make sure she is deficient in iron and never give it if there is infection as the body sequesters it then making things worse. They used to blindly give iron with epogen or aranesp but not now. My vet didn't even know at the time that Antech had a test for iron when Tiffany was sick. I learned about it from one of the CRF sites. Oh and iron can be constipating in cats just like in humans.

Elise
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91

I really don't understand why vets won't prescribe something that you want and could be helpful, even if they don't personally have experience with it. :-x :-x Chyna has just hit a bit of a rough patch, she's not ready yet. Her numbers are looking good! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Liz
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91

Thanks again for the visits with hugs and vines, Mariko, Amy, Tina, Elise, Liz and Ella :-D . Thanks on the cypro, Mariko, I've read quite a few talk about starting with small crumbs:) Tina and Elise, I've asked the vet previously about iron supplements when I read about it on Tanyas site and was told it isn't needed yet. Chyna isn't on a reduced protein diet though...and I don't have money for any extra tests as work hours were just cut :sad: ... maybe next bloodwork.

WE HAVE A GIANT POO! And some medium ones :-D . Chyna ate her supper and 2nd supper all up, without turning her head away or walking off. I did spoon feed it as I didn't want to move her again today after all the getting her from under the bed and such she was rather annoyed, she looked so comfy on the pillow. I DO think she's trying to kill me with the greens, even with reduced doses! I'm not sure if I should give the cerenia tonight or hold off. I'm thinking to stall giving it to see how she does with her next fuds.

I'm just relieved we have poo and fuds eating :-D

PS, the vet tech called back and is "going over" my email with the vet tomorrow. Good thing it wasn't a HURRY or anything :evil:
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91

I would give the cerenia one more time. It can't hurt her and it might be helping. That's my two cents worth . I'm glad she is feeling better.

Elise
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91

YAY for POO!!!!!! dancing_cat AND YAY for an eating cat!!!! dancing_cat BOO on the poopy vet/vet tech that are taking forever getting back to you. UGH! Chyna sounds a bit like Shasta as of late...crappy appy; LB issues; grumpy. However, Shasta didn't give up on me and Chyna's not giving up on you! Give her some snuggles from me and you go and take care of yourself. Sending you great big hugs via FDMB! :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

p.s. 1/4 tab of cypro was a bit too much for Shasta, but 1/8 tab seems to work great...just have to give it to her about 15-30 minutes before mealtime (I like giving it to her before dinner time so that I can keep my eye on her for a few hours). My vet wouldn't prescribe us ondansetron, either. So far, no need. (paws crossed!)
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91

WOOHOO on the GIANT POO!!!!
dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat

And it sounds like she's eating better.
I'm so glad, Rachel. :-D
 
Re: 4/7 Chyna PMPS 103 +2 91

Mariko, Deborah, Liz, Elise, thanks again :-D . Who'd have thought poo would be so exciting! :lol: . I wonder if the cerenia made her more constipated which is why it was helping her for the first 3-4 days and then her eating/nausea got worse. I know I feel nausea when I have to...you know what. She was pooping all week/weekend except yesterday, but this is a really nice one ;-) . I just gave the cerenia. I have it, and she was licking her lips a bit. Paws crossed the extra fluids we are attempting (which I am redoubling my efforts to do even with noisy hissing kitty) will help with any poo problems that may arise. :-D
 
{{{Rachel}}}:

I'm sorry you are having such a stressful time. Looking at Chyna's numbers, one would think there was nothing amiss with her at all! :mrgreen:

Hooray for POOOO! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT Only we sugarcat mamas can truly appreciate how exciting that is!

I'm glad she ate so well for you tonight. I'll bet that constipation was affecting her appetite.

For future reference, "Little Noses" is a spray or drop for children when they have stuffy noses. My vet suggested it for Sasha when she had her cold, and others on here have said they use it. It's OTC at pharmacies here - I'm not sure about in Canada. When I gave Sasha her "steam treatments", I took her in the bathroom and closed the door. Then I turned on the shower as hot as it would go, and hooked up the humidifier. We stayed in there anywhere from 20-60 minutes, and it really seemed to help the sniffles. It's best to have her on the counter or at least on the toilet, because warm air rises, and if she's on the floor she's not getting the full benefit. It doesn't sound like Chyna needs this now, but in case she ever does...

Sending tons of good appy and tummy vines for Chyna, and big hugs for you. You are doing a wonderful job, and Chyna is NOT ready to go anywhere. It's easy to get overwhelmed and scared with all this going on, but just take some deep breaths and listen to all your LL sisters and brothers. We're here for you when you need to vent. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Yay for POOOOOOOO!!!! I'm so glad she's feeling better. Keep pooping and eating....and eating and pooping, OK, Chyna?
 
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