? 4/6 Oren; amps-HI; +11-421;PMPS-431;pm+3.75-148;+4.75- 113;need to sleep, leaving some food ok?;

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Megan & Oren

Megan & Oren

Member Since 2015
What-a-Yesterday!

The elusive green of course showed up at bedtime, a low green for him, 60! mini-PJ party to watch him surf for 3 hrs. w/ the help of low-carb.

So of course, HI this a.m. Deciding that's a good thing, except that he cleared a big bounce quickly yesterday and so I'm not sure he won't do it again today. Left 1/2 can of low carb in 3 mini meals every 2 hrs. through +5 since I'm at work. I hope he doesn't decide he wants to do this again tonight!!

I'm still kind of in a daze...Happy Monday to all, bring on the :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
Tina & Sammy said:
So awesome for Oren to see some green. Hopefully it will be back really soon.
Click to expand...
Thanks Tina!! yes, a lovely surprise, though the timing was not optimal... Yawwwwn!
Even though he bounced hard I'm still nervous about being away all day... leaving the food was best I could do... perhaps I'll try to sneak away a little early if possible (damn 11 hr. days!)

Congratulations on day 3 OTJ trial!! how exciting for you!
 
I have general question, out of curiosity. I'm still so new to this, and when the dx first happened i was googling and asking lots of questions, I found a bewildering range of what is considered 'normal' BG levels for a kitty w/ . Admittedly, some sources are probably 'better' than others.

Here is a sampling:
75 - 159 e_how.com
80-120 vetinfo.com
75-120 pedtmd.com
50-130 petdiabetes.com/wiki (actually cites FDMB def. of normalized w/o insulin and tightly regulated with insulin)
60-120 FDMB (normalized)
60-150 FDMB tightly regulated w/ insulin
100-150 my former vet
70-150 a second vet (who is a friend)

I even stumbled on an older (from 2001) discussion board where someone asked about 'normal cat BG' and was told by many responders, "No one really knows for sure at this point"!
Because I've been looking at many OTJ trial posts/spreadsheets etc. recently, this has brought up some confusion for me.
I realize that folks here have suggested kitty should be 50-80 w/o insulin for 2 wks. before being considered in remission? (believe that comes from Tillydiabetes.com page?)

The 30 pt. spread for the upper range seems to confuse me most, how did 120 become the more preferred upper limit here? I note that vets seem to favor the upper limit
But also, the lower limit is fairly variable too... 30 pt. spread there as well?! I can't be sure if these numbers refer to human or feline specific meter readings also...
 
Megan & Oren said:
Thanks Tina!! yes, a lovely surprise, though the timing was not optimal... Yawwwwn!
Even though he bounced hard I'm still nervous about being away all day... leaving the food was best I could do... perhaps I'll try to sneak away a little early if possible (damn 11 hr. days!)
Click to expand...

Yes, they do tend to throw those curve balls right at bedtime. Sammy did that more than once.
 
I hated seeing black too, but it helped to remind myself that the reason Neko was seeing black was the response to the good numbers she did get the cycle before that. Oren will get over it soon enough.

What are normal numbers is an interesting discussion. It also depends what type of meter you are using as the pet meters are 30-40% higher than the human ones. I've tested enough civies (or friend's cats) to think that the 50's has got to be included in the normal range. And we've seen plenty of OTJ kittys here get into the 40's. We've also seen some OTJ kitties who like to hang a little higher (90's and 100's), but sometimes there is an underlying issue (needs a dental, arthritic pain).
 
still bouncy. I'm gonna test at +3 or 4 and really kind of hope he isn't gonna repeat last night...but then again, if he doesn't, he might be low in the a.m...
 
And there was also Jersey, who regularly hung out in the 30's after she went OTJ.

The normal range that we use comes from the Rand/Roomp Tight Regulation Protocol document, which is specific to use with a long-lasting insulin, ie, Lantus and Levemir. They set the goal for a cat on insulin to be tightly regulated as 50-120, and say that this is the range that allows the pancreas to have the opportunity to heal, if at all possible. I think the idea is that this is specifically for a cat ON INSULIN, because there is a safety margin for us to be able to bring up the cat's blood sugar to prevent a hypo.

I think those sources you cited are probably comparing apples and oranges. No doubt the veterinary sites are using pet glucometers. Rand/Roomp used 68 Alpha Trak as the lower boundary as comparable to 50 on a human meter, but they don't mention an upper number for the normal range.

On the Main Health FDMB page they are dealing with lots of different insulins, and i think there are some different numbers used there. They have a no-shot # of 200, which makes sense when you're using an insulin like Vetsulin, for example, that onsets quickly. With lantus and Lev on this group we use 150 as the "ask for advice your first time" number. Those insulins aren't going to onset right away (on averagea about 2 hrs for Lantus and 4 hrs for Lev) and the preshot number is less important than the # you can predict (if you can) will be happening when the insulin onsets.

The specific part from Tilly's Diabetes Page is below. It's not 100% blood sugar between 50-80, but "most cats" and "sporadic higher and lower BGs."
Phase 5: Remission
14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.​

Anyway, interesting discussion. I think the most important # for anyone using Lantus/Lev are the references for normal numbers suggested here, at least while the kitty is on insulin. Once they are off insulin, then the idea is a majority of the time under 100, all of the time under 120 is considered normal.
 
Thanks Julie, that does help somewhat; I have to keep in mind the specific differences in the types of insulin.
So, I'd feel like its a win whenever I can get Oren to low 100s, specifically under 120.

One other question I have is, why do some folks start w/ Lantus, and switch to Levemir? What is a deciding factor?

And finally, I believe he's clearing his bounce, as I just got a 148 at almost +4. I am SO tired after only 4 hrs of sleep last night and an 11 hr day, that I can't really pull another one. Can experts advise if leaving him 2 sm. meals 1 hr. apart should be ok for me to call it a night?
 
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Look at him clear that bounce already!:) I'd leave maybe a couple tsps each meal and give him a good helping just before you turn into bed.

People switch to Levemir for many different reasons. Some people find the acid base of Lantus stings their cat at the injection site. It's especially noticeable for higher dose cats. (Lantus didn't bother Neko at higher doses). Some switch in hopes that their cat will be flatter - and some cats do go a lot flatter (Neko did), but lots still bounce. I switched because Neko had done about 6 months straight of lows and night and bounce during the day and I'd tried everything else I could to change it. I was exhausted. She still prefers to go lower at night, but she's more predictable now and does do some lows during the day. Overall, I'm happy with the switch as I'm getting longer stretches of sleep.
 
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