4/30 Max+3=347+5=299PMPS323+3.5=300 +5=164+6=133

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tiffmaxee

tiffmaxee

Member Since 2013
YESTERDAY'S ROTTEN NUMBERS
AMPS 297
+4 315
+5.75288
PMPS 355
+3 329

I increased to 2.25. I tried to use the calipers but I was rushing so unsuccessful. I also need to figure out where to do it. I'll figure it out before tonight's dose. I took too long so he got his hot 20 minutes late. With the increase I guess I better give it at the same time tonight. Deep breath. Count to 10. My vet says he's a controlled diabetic. I hope we get to the point that I agree soon.

Interesting article. I'm glad you smart moderators had me check Max's BG at night!
http://myscienceacademy.org/2014/04/28/ ... diabetics/
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305

HI guys .. good luck with the new dose! I hope it brings max into some puuurfect numbers! Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=346

Thanks, Devon.

What is the longest that a vial can be used without losing potency? I started mine on 11/15/13. I think I read 6 months. It is clear and has been kept on a shelf in the refrigerator the entire time but since the numbers aren't budging I am again wondering if it is time. Thanks.
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=347

Hi Elise:

We have had a vial go six months with no problems. You're pushing that now. You might want to think about getting a new one soon. We did that with our last vial and saw no changes in the BG with the new one, so we probably could have gone more than six months. It's so hard to know what is keeping the numbers from going down. You just did the dosecrease this cycle, so don't panic yet. Put on those patience pants and give it a chance to work. I know it's frustrating. Hang in there!
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=347+5=299

tiffmaxee wrote:
I swear they put something to attract cats in ff.
Click to expand...

They DO. :mrgreen:

I know for a fact that the reason the cats all love the kitty crack kibble made by Purina is because they saturate and then pour their Forta Flora product all over it. Many people use Forta Flora to get inappetent cats to eat.

FF is made by Purina.

Does Max like the powder, Forta Flora? If so, you might try mixing a little bit, (like 1/4 pkg)) of it into the pate food that you want him to eat.

Or, I haven't looked at the FD or CKD lists lately, is there any other cat food made by Purina that is low in phosphorus but also is LC? :roll:

On the dosecrease of 2.25u for Max.. when I went up the insulin dosing scale with Rocky I felt like I had failed him, and I even started to cry and wondered if I had done him compassionate service by rescuing him from DKA...You see my friend had been fostering him and she let him get this sick, and then she went on vacation and left him with me. She never took him to the vet but told me that she thought he might be diabetic and she was going "put him down" when she got back from Hawaii.. It broke my heart. I couldn't believe this super tame cat who got tapped during a T-N-R one night was going to be killed all because my friend had stuffed him like a pig from the all-you-can-eat Meow Mix buffet..it was really bad, she had even been feeding him the CANNED meow mix when he stopped eating the dry kibble. ohmygod_smile That Meow Mix stuff is mainly bird food, you know, right? The first 3 ingredients are like, corn, more corn, and even more corn. (And cats LOVE THE CARBS! :thumbup ) Because I have little money, I mix a small amount of Meow Mix that I am sometimes given as a donation w/ a higher protein food to feed my ferals colonies. Guess who are the first ones to the dry feeding bowls? THE BIRDS!!!

Anyway, I took Rocky to the emergency room because I could not stand to see him suffer. That's how he came to be in my care. I went into major debt for him.

From the point I brought him home from the hospital his BG continued to go up. He was in the hospital for so long. I'll have to go back and check my records but I think he was there for like 14 days...However, the vets fell in love with Rocky and the last 5 days they kept him there as a "medical board" because even they could not decide on what a good insulin dose would be for Rocky so they wanted to continue to monitor him.

I got a pleasant surprise after giving him the increased insulin doses.. I hope the dose increase works as well for Max and that you start to see some lower numbers. I'm not sure why but I have hunch that you might see lower numbers from Max if you could find a food lower in phosphorus to feed him as well. ♥
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=347+5=299

Work that extra juice Max, we want blues and greens!

Interesting article, there are so many cats who prefer to go lower at night, mine included.

Have you thought about trying the Lantus pens? Somewhere here there is a link to the coupon that makes in cheaper and I used to use it to the last drop.

ETA: there is a saying here that sometimes cats just have to go up in dose in order to go down.
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=347+5=299

This is my first vial. I was given another one that I just checked expires 9/14. I guess I might as well start using it. After that I will get the pens, Wendy.
I'm not sure why you think a lower phosphorus food would result in lower BG, Tina.
Here are Max's labs:
Total Protein 8 (5.2-8.8
Albumin 3.0 (2.5-3.9
Globulin 5.0 (2.3-5.3
A/G Ratio 0.6 (0.35-1.5
AST 36 (10-100
ALT 57 (10-100
ALK PHOS 44 (6-102
GGT 2 (1-10
TOTAL BILIRUBIN 0.1 (0.1-0.4
BUN 35 (14-36
CREATININE 1.6 (0.6-2.4
BUN/CREAT RATIO (22 (4-33
PHOSPHORUS 4.4 (2.4-8.2
GLUCOSE 144 (64-170
POTASSIUM 4.0 (3.4-5.6
CHOLESTEROL 245 H (75-220
TRIGLYCERIDE 56 (25-160
HEMOLYSIS 1+ NO SIGNIFICANT INTERFERENCE
T4 2.2
URINALYSIS
SG 1.057 (1.015-1.060
PH 7.0 (5.5-7.0
PROTEIN 1+H
OCCULT BLOOD 1+
GLUCOSE STRIP 3+

His BUN is always high, even when on the lower phosphorus sliced food. This blood test was done on about a 6 hour fast. All the vets I've asked have said the +1 protein in the urine is not a concern since his urine is so well concentrated. We did a follow up test about seven months ago to reassure me. The occult blood is likely from collecting the urine.

I think the results are darn good for a 16 1/2 year old cat. I haven't heard the noises again since Sunday. I made a You tube video and will make it available if it comes back. Maybe it was congestion. I hope so. I was home all afternoon and all he did was sleep.
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=347+5=299

I can't tell you why I think so, Elise. I just have a hunch about it, but nothing for sure.. I didn't know that Max had a BUN that is always high. I had not looked at his labs.

I think last week or so you said that he was trying to vomit but nothing came up. Maybe I am wrong and that was someone other person's condo that I had read. It made me think of phosphorus and an upset stomach, lining of the stomach, acid reflux, FF food, the grunt.. That's all.
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS 305+3=347+5=299

Hi Tina. You are right. He did have that issue a couple of times but not since. If it continued I was going to try pepcid. I've read how it really isn't so good long term if not absolutely necessary. So instead I started making sure he got food later and it seems to help. The episodes last Tuesday through Sunday were different. To me they felt like he was having a respiratory issue. His BUN has been at the top of normal for at least 5 years. With a high USG and creatinine of 1.6 my vet says it isn't from disease. Who knows? If it is he is 16 1/2 so it could be age appropriate.

I wish it were possible to find a food lower in phos without being higher in carbs but it doesn't seem possible. Less carbs means higher protein which means higher phos. If Max's BG would only come down and stay down, even if he continues to need insulin, I might be more inclined to go to a 9-10% carb food. Right now I want the 3-4%.

If you find the perfect food please let me know. The fish ones are lower phos but I won't feed him those.

You are a wonderful person for what you have done for Rocky and I bet he knows it too.
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS305+3=347+5=299PMPS323

Why do you want him on a lower phosphorus food? His numbers are fantastic! BUN like his can be a tiny bit of dehydration not associated with kidneys, eating high protein diet, or STRESS....as in the kind that comes from going to the vet.

I cannot think of any reason at all why lower P foods would bring the BG down. For a cat his age, the goal is for the P to be below 4.5. His is :-D I also think it is a generalization to say that food that is low in carbs is high in protein and high in P.

Look at Evo 95% chicken/turkey: 25% Protein, 73% Fat, 2% carbs, 155 mgP/100 kcal 0.88% DMB). That is a lower phosphorus food. If carbs are low, then protein or fat would make up the difference. There are other examples from Dr. Lisa's charts.
 
Re: 4/30 Max Dosecrease AMPS305+3=347+5=299PMPS323

You are right Marje. I forgot fat can be increased as well. A high fat diet isn't so good for diabetics either, is it? I was looking for a lower phisphorus food again because Tina thought that might be his problem and because of his age. But even the cardiologist was impressed with his kidney values. Tina suggested that perhaps the food was causing acid reflux. There gave been times I thought so too. Letting him have some food when he demands it in the early morning seems to he helping that.

Hopefully whatever was bothering him will not come back. Now let's get thus BG back to blues at least.
 
Sorry I didn't make sense last night. Long work day and I wanted to check in on Max and post the info.

I think it is a good idea to watch the P you feed him. In other words, I would try to stay under 250 or so mgP/100 kcal as opposed to something that's in the 400 range simply to be proactive but I would first be sure that he likes what he eats and it helps you manage his BG.

High fat in a diet is not good for any cat unless it's sick or really thin. Most of the foods have higher fat than we'd like because good quality protein is expensive. I don't think it's so much that high Fat in food is bad for FDs in terms of directly affecting the BG or insulin absorption, etc., it's just better for an obligate carnivore to have higher protein. And high fat can make them fat which is more the reason why FDs should not have it...just like people. :-D

I don't know about acid reflux and your vets have advised you. But acid....like a cat with kidney disease produces...can be minimized by feeding small meals frequently and particularly late at night so the food absorbs the acid and prevents an acid tummy in the morning. It's best to avoid anti-acids when you can because we all need acid to digest our food. So if there is just a way to minimize it, that can help. However, for dorm, they have no choice but to take (or give to kitty) anti-acids.

Love seeing Max in blue!!!
 
Thanks Marje. The board was hard to access last night at least fir me at times. I dint see too many foods in the lists that are that low in phosphorus. For now I think I will leave well enough alone until his FD is in the right range. He ate some Soulustic mixed with ff so another option will be to mix lower phosphorus foods with his ff to cut it for now.

Feeding small amounts seems to work best for Max. That is why I might have to feed him within the two hour morning before insulin time. When I do that he doesn't seem to have a problem.

Thank you for your help. So appreciated.
 
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