4/30 Ella pmps 509 +2=475 +5=468

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Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

she sure does:) I think this is a safe dose for her atleat I'm hoping:)
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

Good Morning Tamara.
I'm about to go get some ~O)
I can't see what time you shot last night in your ss because the U column isn't wide enough. Can you add a space after the 0.1 and then the @6:.. will come down and be readable?
If you want, you can get an +11.5 to see if she's surfing.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

I shot at 6:35am
wouldn't a ps tell us is she is surfing?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

a bit more than 11.5 =113

I'd prefe if she didn't drop like this before ps...it's makes my tummy turn :sad:
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

Yes, that's fine. I was just thinking if you were still wondering about shooting 15 minutes early, that a +11.5 might help your decision. Thanks for fixing the ss.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

I think I will just shoot at 6:35am. I will have the car so I can get a 1.5 before I go. Does this dose look like it's safe Dyana?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

It seemed safe yesterday, but you can't tell with Ella. Let's see what her +12 is.
I'm sorry for all the busy work, but can you put a space after the = in the 11 column so the second bg test number is visible?
Is she acting hungry this morning?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142

pmps =95

she would like her breakfast but not starving
shoot the same dose?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

is that the first line? I'm counting drops so how do I do this now?
there are approx 11 from the .5 and I take out 8...how do i do this?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

Do you understand? You can push more insulin out until you get to the zero line, and there is still a little left.
Or you can skip, it's up to you. Skipping is fine, as she is coming down, and she is an unreliable eater.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

tpr said:
is that the first line? I'm counting drops so how do I do this now?
there are approx 11 from the .5 and I take out 8...how do i do this?
Click to expand...
Take out 10, so it's 1 drop.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

ok sorry...i didn't get your message in time but i think there was only 1 drop. i pressed really firmly on the syringe and when i took it out there was still a miniscule drop so i quickly put it back in. is that bad?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

No, it wasn't bad. Mostly what you're seeing now in her numbers is from last night's dose, and the dose before that, and what's in the shed. She just seems to get an exceptionally long duration from the insulin, I think. The little tiny bit you just gave her will add a little to the shed, but less than what was added last night. Go ahead and feed her some MC.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

she's already eaten her first breffis so I'm going to have to wait. if her numbers are on the rise or are the same does she still need some mc?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

Lets see. I just wanted her numbers to stop dropping. That's why I said to give her some MC.
You have time for 2 more tests, before you're out the door? I know this is tough, while trying to get ready for work, too.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

I will do +1 at 7:40am and then I'l get an +1.5 at 8:10
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

Okay, please let us know what the 7:40 test result is.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

+1=65...I'm about to lose my mind!
what should I do?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95

UGG! Where's the pulling out the hair smiley.
Feed her some HC, please. Not a lot, but a couple teaspoons of it.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

and then what? i have to leave here at 8:10am.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

I don't know.
If it were me, I'd call my work, and tell them I was going to be late.
If that's not an option, then do you have anyone that can look in on her?

If you leave her at home, I would definitely leave a bunch of bowls of LC, MC, and HC about the room you are isolating her in (maybe with a kibble or two on top of each or partially smushed into the top of the food), and come home at lunch to check on her.

Anyone else have any suggestions?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

Hi, Just got here.
I agree with Dyana. Leave food out in several bowls so that she will eat what appeals to her. I don't see what else you can do right now. You will have to trust Ella that she will eat.

Ella
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

What about someone in your Vet's Office dropping by to check on her? I know many of them do pet sitting on the side, just a thought.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

Give her some karo syrup, about a teaspoon, and some more HC.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

HI guys .. no advice from me, but so glad to see you are getting the help you need with ella .. she sure likes to keep you on your toes! Always remember, you are in control of her numbers!! Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

that's quite a drop in the last couple of hours considering it's at the end of the cycle. i agree with dyana. abort the cycle.

since you have to leave, i'd syringe HC as suggested, leave out food for her, and i wouldn't hesitate to leave about a quarter cup of dry out for her since you know she'll eat it. carbing her up will mess up the picture today and it's not something i normally suggest, but it's secondary to keeping her safe.

by taking these precautions you will not have to worry about her while you're gone.

just my thoughts...
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

Sorry for the delayed response!

So she was 40 on my way out the door so I boarded her at the vets!

This is nutty!

I spoke quickly to one of the vets (the less desirable one) and he was shocked that she was on 1 or two drops. He suggested since she was higher at ps at night and that it seems to last so long in her system, that we dose her .5 once per day. Has anyone ever heard baout that with Lantus?
I hope they are checking her levels throughout the day. He didn't seem worried at all that she would go hypo even though I told him about the bg drops over two hours. He said metres (both human and animal) run 20% lower so that people don't inject themselves and cause possible hypos. Does it seem like he knows what he's talking about. he says he's been treating diabetic cats for 30 years.

I don't know what to do anymore:(
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

Hi Tamara-
Just checking in this a.m. to see how the weekend went. I am really glad you brought Ella to the vet for the day. She will be safe there!

Im not exactly sure what dose you are giving (have not read EVERY post from the weekend ;-) ). Sounds like a drop or two the last few cycles and still going under 50 with karo/syrup? I think that is telling you something!

I'm glad you are able to worry a little less today knowing she is safe.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65

tpr said:
Sorry for the delayed response!

So she was 40 on my way out the door so I boarded her at the vets!

This is nutty!

I spoke quickly to one of the vets (the least desirable one) and he was shocked that she was on 1 or two drops. He suggested since she was higher at ps at night and that it seems to last so longein her system, that we dose her .5 once per day. Has anyone ever heard baout that with Lantus?
I hope they are checking her levels throughout the day. He didn't seem worried at all that she would go hypo even though I told him about the bg drops over two hours. He said metres (both human and animal) run 20% lower so that people don't inject themselves and cause possible hypos. Does it seem like he knows what he's talking about. he says he's been treating diabetic cats for 30 years.

I don't know what to do anymore:(
Click to expand...

hi tamara. i'm so glad you went ahead and boarded ella today! better safe than sorry.

generally speaking, your vet is right in that human meters will often read lower than the alphatrak meter. in the TR Protocol dr. jacquie rand mentions the alphatrak reads about 30 points higher than human meters in the low range. however, most of us have noticed that when you get down to low numbers (less than 80 on the AT), the gap closes up considerably depending on the human meter used. so i don't count on that 20% cushion/30 point difference in the low range.

so what to do now?

there are some cats who do well with only one shot per day when it's obvious kitty is trying hard to get off the juice. it's rare. very rare. there are also some kitties who make their way off insulin being shot only as needed. again, this is rare, but it has been known to happen. however, it's also possible that the higher numbers you're seeing are simply bounces... the result of ella's blood glucose dropping so low. if this is the case, continuing with insulin will only create a vicious circle of highs and lows.

your vet is presenting you with one option. it could work, but i have to be honest. given what we've seen ella do with the tiniest dose... if ella were mine, i would be deathly afraid to shoot 0.5u even once a day.

let me present you with another option. presuming ella bounces from this low, you could shoot at the zero line again tonight. in other words, shoot through the bounce tonight and then withhold insulin as soon as she clears the bounce... in an effort to see what she can do on her own. she may surprise you!

if she doesn't bounce by shot time tonight, i don't think i'd shoot any amount of insulin. it's time to see if she can handle things on her own.

if you decide to withhold insulin, don't panic if you see some higher numbers since it can take up to 72 hours (3 days) for a kitty's numbers to come back down after seeing lows like that. ride it out. after 3 - 4 days, possibly sooner, we'll have a clear picture if ella needs any insulin at all.

think about it. you have time to make a decision.




fwiw, just my thoughts...
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

Hi Jill,

Thanks so much for your post:)

It's worth a try taking her off the insulin although we've seen her sky rocket when she hasn't had her shots so I'm not sure if her pancreas is ready. Perhaps she's bobbling up and down from all the different doses that are filling up her shed as well as skipped shots ect?

Maybe we should just let her shed drain completely and start from scratch and over that time we will see what her numbers do. I personally think her higher numbers she experienced were from the days she didn't get a shot but this is all still so new to me and I guess we can't be certain.

I'll see where she is at when she gets home. I can guarantee that she is high. I strictly informed the vet that she shouldn't have any kibble but I'm not sure what they will do. I hope they even test her!

Thanks again for checking in!
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

I'm glad you took her to the vet to be boarded. I too, when I read that, was worried they would give her kibble. I hope they don't, but then again, maybe she won't eat anything else while there. I would give them a call and see if they've tested her. Please let us know.
Boy, I sure hope she does good with no insulin :-D
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

I personally think her higher numbers she experienced were from the days she didn't get a shot but this is all still so new to me and I guess we can't be certain.
Click to expand...
i understand your thinking. it's easy to think a skipped shot is responsible for high numbers. however, it's only natural for any kitty to bounce from the lows ella has seen. i've looked at a lot of spreadsheets over the years and those highs sure look like bounces to me.

i highly suspect insulin has been setting up a vicious cycle of highs and lows, but the only way to know for sure is try withholding. there's never any guarantees in this dance, but i do think we have to give ella a chance to see what she can do on her own. i think it could become dangerous for her if we don't try. the drop to 40 after HC/karo at +1.5 today is a perfect example of why withholding insulin is worth trying.

and it's always possible we may have to think outside the box to come up with a new plan for her. she may end up being one of those rare kitties who is shot once a day or even as needed. at this point, we don't know.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

Ella seems to want the tiniest dose above "nothing". I'm sorry this is so difficult for you, but Ella is on a mission -- you're just along for the ride. Wish I was near you and could help.

MJ

ETA: don't we have some members near Toronto?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

MJ --

There are several people in Toronto (e.g., Roni/Luna). They just haven't been around in a while.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

hello everyone,

ella is now home and yes even though I STRESSED not to give her dry they gave her a tbsp. I don't think they tried very hard encouraging her to eat the wet and they even opened up the hc can as opposed to the wellness when I told them specifically which one was lc. I just tested her at +11 and she is 482 and I'm furious! They tested her at about 2:15pm @ 229. Now she is reeling on a serious sugar high! Poor girl:(

Jill, I didn't give Ella hc or karo this morning. I just gave her the lc and took her to the vet.
The vet is also saying that she is a unique case. They feel I should try dosing her once a day at .5 which I told them I felt uncomfortable with so they told me to go with whatever has been working. If that method doesn't work then they will consider another insulin for her. She also mentioned that it would be safer if I dosed her in the evening before bed so that I can be around for her nadirs and then come home for lunch and check if need be at her lowest points (+12)

I don't know what to do. How shall I deal with these food influenced numbers tonight?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

seeing as she is so high...i'm wondering if i could take advantage of it to move her shot time back?
supposed to be shooting at 6:40 although I have no idea what I'm shooting!
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40

Yeah, she got some HC kitty crack today, but I think you still want to give very low doses to her. She reacts VERY well to the insulin. The carb high will clear out on its own soon enough.

MJ
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

bah. i was hoping she wouldn't be so high.

i'd stick with the same dose you shot this morning... at the zero line.

how much earlier would you like to shoot?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

Hi Mj:)

But what dose do I give her? It's very hard to know what truly works for her as we've been sliding down the scale so fast and skipped shots ect.
Do I go back to the .1? and then skip the shot in the morning?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

yes me too! she looks awful!!!
it would be good to shoot for 6:15 which is in 8 minutes! That would move the shot time back 30 minutes but what would be the plan for the morning?
skip?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

go ahead and shoot at 6:15.

let's see how things go tonight. if i were in your shoes, i'd give withholding insulin a try in the morning. i think we have to see what she can do on her own for the reasons i've already mentioned.

she may need a little help along the way, but if we can see our way clear of insulin, hc, and bounces... we'll have a much better picture of what is going on with her.
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

Hi Jill,

So I was counting drops to try and be more accurate. at the .5 line I counted out 8 drops to get to .1.
There was approx 11 drops to the end of the syringe. Do I now take out 10 drops or should I just shoot at the zero line?

Jill & Alex said:
bah. i was hoping she wouldn't be so high.

i'd stick with the same dose you shot this morning... at the zero line.

how much earlier would you like to shoot?
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

i think however you did it this morning is fine.
she's pretty high now, but she'll come down. :-D
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

Thanks Jill:)
pmps 509 ...an all time record high:(

If she is in the pinks tomorrow shall I dose her again?
 
Re: 4/30 Ella +11=142 +11.5=113 am=95+1=65 +1.5=40+11=482

Just called the vet to see what time the kitty crack was given and she ate it at 9:30am. Not sure if this helps to put anything in to perspective but I thought I would share.
 
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