? 4/29 Silver AMPS 212 + 7=223 PMPS 248 Scared I am losing him....

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Juliet

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-28-silver-amps-214.194797/#post-2180415

Silver gave me a huge scare last night and this morning as he wouldn't eat. So I broke out the Recovery food and brought him upstairs away from his sister to eat. He wouldn't touch it. But when I opened the door and let him go back downstairs he went right to her food and started finishing it off. So I opened up another can of FF and didn't add water and now he is lapping it up. So obviously he is saying he doesn't like the water added to his food. So how am I to keep him hydrated? Last vet visit for his dental, vet said he was no longer dehydrated so the water in his food obviously worked. But its better he eats right? So now what?

*Added....okay so now he only ate 1/2 can of the FF but when I lift it to stop his sister getting it, he's asking for food. So maybe his mouth is getting sore - he's hungry but its sore to eat? he does want the food from what I can see. Any suggestions? Vet is closed but the emergency vet will be open 24 hrs. Could his mouth have been fine the last 3 days and just getting sore now?
 
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If you can add water to his food, it's a good idea, but if he's not eating well and prefers the food without, go with that. You can grab a handful of his scruff and let go, it should bounce back right away (try it on civvie to see if there is a difference). If he is dehydrated, it will rebound slowly.

I guess his mouth could be sore a few days later, did they use any stitches do you know? That could be bothering him as well, if so. I would test for keytones, make sure he is eating as best as you can. Does your vet have a call service for afterhours/weekends where you can at least speak to someone? I hope you can keep him eating, he isn't dehydrated and you can get ahold of your vet today or tomorrow to see what they think. I'm assuming they didn't send him home with any pain meds? Maybe what they gave you for the swelling might suffice?
 
Stacy & Asia said:
If you can add water to his food, it's a good idea, but if he's not eating well and prefers the food without, go with that. You can grab a handful of his scruff and let go, it should bounce back right away (try it on civvie to see if there is a difference). If he is dehydrated, it will rebound slowly.

I guess his mouth could be sore a few days later, did they use any stitches do you know? That could be bothering him as well, if so. I would test for keytones, make sure he is eating as best as you can. Does your vet have a call service for afterhours/weekends where you can at least speak to someone? I hope you can keep him eating, he isn't dehydrated and you can get ahold of your vet today or tomorrow to see what they think. I'm assuming they didn't send him home with any pain meds? Maybe what they gave you for the swelling might suffice?
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He did have sutures. He only ate 1/2 a can of FF when he normally eats a full can. Emergency vet is available but they didn't do the dental. My vet opens tomorrow. How much food does he need to eat to get his insulin? It's only been an issue since bedtime snack last night. He ate his meals okay during the day.

I can't tell with the scruff thing. Can't see any difference when he was dehydrated or not. They didn't give me ANY meds. His ketones number is always high. Always has been since I got the meter. He's been fine tho. Acting normally. Still is except the food thing just now.
 
Juliet said:
Great. Another vet visit. Am running out of coping skills for all this.
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If you are home a good amount today and can continue to give him food or leave him food, I think he ate enough that it's fine to give him his shot and he can eat more small meals today to compensate for not wanting to eat larger ones.

See what your vet says, maybe they won't even need to see him again and will give some antibiotics or whatever they think is necessary without an appointment. If you're worried and can talk to someone at the clinic that treated his DKA, I know they didn't do his dental, but they might have some thoughts about it to ease your mind until your vet opens.

I know it's stressful and hard, but you can do this and you will get past this. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
If you are home a good amount today and can continue to give him food or leave him food, I think he ate enough that it's fine to give him his shot and he can eat more small meals today to compensate for not wanting to eat larger ones.

See what your vet says, maybe they won't even need to see him again and will give some antibiotics or whatever they think is necessary without an appointment. If you're worried and can talk to someone at the clinic that treated his DKA, I know they didn't do his dental, but they might have some thoughts about it to ease your mind until your vet opens.

I know it's stressful and hard, but you can do this and you will get past this. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks. I called the emergency vet and they don't do anything without seeing him. I'm supposed to be going to church this am and therefore out for the morning. What if Silver won't eat small meals? I'd rather the same vet sees him that did the dental. I can take him in there after work tomorrow. I'm just so scared. He is acting fine tho. Not like with the DKA when he would hide under the table.
 
Juliet said:
Great. Another vet visit. Am running out of coping skills for all this.
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Just offering some possibilities because I've been watching Teasel's sister for this since her dental on Thursday. She had two extractions but there was no sign of infection so I wasn't given antibiotics. I was given buprenorphine for pain but only gave her three half doses in the 24 hours after her dental. She hasn't seemed to need any more.

We all understand how high the stress level can get treating a diabetic cat even with no other health concerns, theirs, ours or family's. Hang in there.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
If you are home a good amount today and can continue to give him food or leave him food, I think he ate enough that it's fine to give him his shot and he can eat more small meals today to compensate for not wanting to eat larger ones.

See what your vet says, maybe they won't even need to see him again and will give some antibiotics or whatever they think is necessary without an appointment. If you're worried and can talk to someone at the clinic that treated his DKA, I know they didn't do his dental, but they might have some thoughts about it to ease your mind until your vet opens.

I know it's stressful and hard, but you can do this and you will get past this. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Update - so you were right. Smaller meals seem to work. Just tried him again and he ate 1/4 can of the Recovery food. He loves that so I hope he doesn't get fussy and refuse the FF. But he ate enough now that I don't feel I need to rush him to vet. Will check ketones when I get home from church along with his BG. I can't take too many more scares like this :arghh:
 
I'm sorry Silver gave you a scare by not wanting to eat. I'm glad he did eat for you and hope he keeps eating and was just being a cat. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
carfurby said:
I'm sorry Silver gave you a scare by not wanting to eat. I'm glad he did eat for you and hope he keeps eating and was just being a cat. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I think maybe he is sore after the dental? Going to try and get him in to see the vet tomorrow after work.
 
carfurby said:
It's probably a good idea to have him looked at just in case something is going on with his mouth from the dental.
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Taking him in tomorrow. Ketone meter read Hi. Spoke to emergency vet dhis making me up pain meds and appetite stimulant. Just do I understand - can lack of eating spike the ketones? He's getting the insulin so it's not lack of insulin. Infection I'll find out about tomorrow. But if he's eating and getting insulin he should reduce ketones??
 
Juliet, did they give you pain meds and an appetite stimulant or do you have to go pick that up? I would just feed him whatever he will eat as much as he wants, even temptations. Get food in to him. Do you still have fluids? Can you give him maybe 100mL to help flush the ketones? Did the ER vet mention that as an option? Does your vet not offer a call back outside of normal hours (I know some say go to ER but some have an after hours number)?

I’m so sorry this is still happening. Stay strong! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Juliet, did they give you pain meds and an appetite stimulant or do you have to go pick that up? I would just feed him whatever he will eat as much as he wants, even temptations. Get food in to him. Do you still have fluids? Can you give him maybe 100mL to help flush the ketones? Did the ER vet mention that as an option? Does your vet not offer a call back outside of normal hours (I know some say go to ER but some have an after hours number)?

I’m so sorry this is still happening. Stay strong! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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He won't eat at all. Not even the temptations. He just won't. I just got bupre and mirtazapine from vet. I don't know how to give oral meds. He will spit out. I gave fluids as I still had 400ml left. Gave 100ml.

The after hours at my vet IS the emergency clinic where I just was. I honestly can't afford to leave him there and I don't feel I can call on DCIN again. If I left him they'd give short acting insulin but won't allow me to give it at home. All they did last time was five rhe ahoet acting insulin plus fluids. I can't not show up for work in the morning so taking him in the A.M. is not an option. I'm stressing out.

I'm sitting in my car getting the emotional strength to go try giving oral meds.
 
It’s okay, take a deep breath. The good news about the bupe, you do not have to get him to eat it and it’s a tiny amount of liquid. It basically just needs to touch the inside of his mouth to absorb. Asia is tough for oral meds too. What I do is get the oral syringe ready and I come up behind her so she doesn’t expect it, I gently poke the side of her mouth so she opens and I push the plunger.

Is the mirtz oral liquid or a pill? That may be trickier, but you can do it the same way orally and just hold his muzzle and blow on his face/nose so he swallows. I know some people have luck with pressing on either side of their jaws, but that’s not something that works with Asia, maybe it will with Silver. Once you get the appetite stimulant in him, hopefully he won’t need any more encouraging to eat. I’m glad you gave fluids. Hang in there, we are here for you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Gave him the bupre and the appetite stimulant. How long g does it take to kick in? Ketones still reading HI. Vet said "oh that's probably only about 4. I said no as the meter has given me a 6.4 before so HI must be higher than that. None of the vets have been concerned about the ketone reading. I tried again with the food. No interest. Opened up a can of sardines and he is eating that. Thank goodness.
 
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Stacy & Asia said:
It’s okay, take a deep breath. The good news about the bupe, you do not have to get him to eat it and it’s a tiny amount of liquid. It basically just needs to touch the inside of his mouth to absorb. Asia is tough for oral meds too. What I do is get the oral syringe ready and I come up behind her so she doesn’t expect it, I gently poke the side of her mouth so she opens and I push the plunger.

Is the mirtz oral liquid or a pill? That may be trickier, but you can do it the same way orally and just hold his muzzle and blow on his face/nose so he swallows. I know some people have luck with pressing on either side of their jaws, but that’s not something that works with Asia, maybe it will with Silver. Once you get the appetite stimulant in him, hopefully he won’t need any more encouraging to eat. I’m glad you gave fluids. Hang in there, we are here for you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Manages to give both. He's such a good boy. I gave him the pill for the appetite stimulant in a pill pocket and it disappeared fast. Then when he was on his testing table I gave the bupre no problem. One whole sardine has disappeared so I'm relieved. He is putting me through the emotional and financial wringer!
 
Yay! Success! I’ve never given an appetite stimulant before, but it sounds like it might be working already! The bupe should be very fast acting, minutes I would say.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Yay! Success! I’ve never given an appetite stimulant before, but it sounds like it might be working already! The bupe should be very fast acting, minutes I would say.
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I think it's more likely the sardines that are working. He didn't want the Recovery food and he loves that. He's licking the bowl so hard I think it's going to disappear.
 
I don’t know why they say every two days, I do know the dose they give is sometimes too much for cats, but right now it’s most important that he eats and hopefully he won’t need it again but others will chime in with their experiences of mirtz re: dosing amount and times
 
Juliet, I have to run my guest to the train station to go home, I’m going to check on you when I have signal, put a 911 up to get more eyes over here.
 
Just to test out your ketone meter, could you poke yourself and see what your reading is on the meter? I am reasonably sure you don't have ketones.

And yes, not eating can cause ketones to appear. (Think about the ketogenic diet -- you put your body in starvation mode and you start breaking down stored fat.)

 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Just to test out your ketone meter, could you poke yourself and see what your reading is on the meter? I am reasonably sure you don't have ketones.

And yes, not eating can cause ketones to appear. (Think about the ketogenic diet -- you put your body in starvation mode and you start breaking down stored fat.)
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Just tested myself. 0.7. So the meter is ok.
 
Hi Juliet, I am so glad you will take Silver back to the vet tomorrow. He could have developed an infection in the extraction site which is causing him to not want to eat. Glad that the sardines got his interest.

The recipe for a DKA is : in appetence, a systemic stress or infection and not enough insulin. It's important that you get the insulin in him and then deal with the eating. Also, glad you had the sub q fluids so he stays hydrated, that helps to flush the ketones.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
If the meter is working and ketones are HI, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that this is a situation where getting your cat to the vet is the best course of action.
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The vet said I didn't need to bring him in. I was just there picking up meds. She said not to worry about the ketones not to get him eating and give him his insulin so she gave me appetite stimulant and pain meds. Not sure what other options I have.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Juliet, I am so glad you will take Silver back to the vet tomorrow. He could have developed an infection in the extraction site which is causing him to not want to eat. Glad that the sardines got his interest.

The recipe for a DKA is : in appetence, a systemic stress or infection and not enough insulin. It's important that you get the insulin in him and then deal with the eating. Also, glad you had the sub q fluids so he stays hydrated, that helps to flush the ketones.
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Ok he is definitely getting his insulin. I didn't skip or lessen the dose. Infection - hopefully we will find out tomorrow if the extraction site is causing problems. Eating - how much to be safe? He's had 1/2 can FF; 1/4 can Recovery and one sardine.
 
Juliet said:
Ok he is definitely getting his insulin. I didn't skip or lessen the dose. Infection - hopefully we will find out tomorrow if the extraction site is causing problems. Eating - how much to be safe? He's had 1/2 can FF; 1/4 can Recovery and one sardine.
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I think with his starting numbers you are good with him eating less. But, keep monitoring him and keep pushing small meals.
 
Does anyone with experience with bupe able to chime in? He seems a little bit sedated after it. The package did say that's a possibility. Did anyone else find that?
 
Juliet said:
Does anyone with experience with bupe able to chime in? He seems a little bit sedated after it. The package did say that's a possibility. Did anyone else find that?
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Yes, it always put Bubba into a stupor. It can also constipate them as well just so you know.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Yes, it always put Bubba into a stupor. It can also constipate them as well just so you know.
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He's not pooed since Friday night. He had diarrhea Thursday night; Friday morning and Friday night. Nothing since. Not from other cat either so that's just odd.

If he's in a stupor how do I get him to eat in a couple hrs do I can give his shot? When does it wear off?
 
What dose of bupe did you give? How much does Silver weigh? It is dosed in a range based on weight. Often vet's recommend doses on the high end.

What dose was the mirtazapine? Recent studies have shown it only lasts 9 hours in the cat, so dosing every day is fine. Next time, if there is one, see if the vet can give you transdermal mirtz. Then you just have to rub the gel in his ear. And the transdermal is much less likely to have side effects.

Paws crossed his ketones come down.
 
Juliet said:
He's not pooed since Friday night. He had diarrhea Thursday night; Friday morning and Friday night. Nothing since. Not from other cat either so that's just odd.

If he's in a stupor how do I get him to eat in a couple hrs do I can give his shot? When does it wear off?
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It's not uncommon after a bout of diarrhea that they could possibly skip a few days to go.

Not sure about how long the bupe will last. If I remember correctly it was dosed every 12 hours??
 
Wendy&Neko said:
What dose of bupe did you give? How much does Silver weigh? It is dosed in a range based on weight. Often vet's recommend doses on the high end.

What dose was the mirtazapine? Recent studies have shown it only lasts 9 hours in the cat, so dosing every day is fine. Next time, if there is one, see if the vet can give you transdermal mirtz. Then you just have to rub the gel in his ear. And the transdermal is much less likely to have side effects.

Paws crossed his ketones come down.
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I was only given three pills of the mirtazapine and told to give every two days. It's 3.75mg
The bupe - attaching pic. Don't understand it. I was given six syringes to give every 12 hrs as needed
 

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Bobbie And Bubba said:
It's not uncommon after a bout of diarrhea that they could possibly skip a few days to go.

Not sure about how long the bupe will last. If I remember correctly it was dosed every 12 hours??
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Yes thats what I was told to do. But will the sedation wear off enough that he'll be awake enough to eat?
 
Juliet said:
Yes thats what I was told to do. But will the sedation wear off enough that he'll be awake enough to eat?
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I guess it will depend on the dose they gave him. If I remember correctly with Bubba as the day wore on and he was further away from me administering the bup in his cheek, he got more interested to eat.
 
Bupe can be given more often than 12 hours, some will dose less but more often, every 8 hours. I found the worst of the dopiness wore off after a couple hours. Tomorrow I would double check the dose with your vet, or maybe give a bit less tonight. And maybe get more mirtz from the vet.

Thanks for the pic Juliet. Neko, at 14 lbs, took 0.22 ml bupe, but the concentration was only 0.3 mg/ml. The vet has given you a higher concentration version at 0.8 mg/ml but the total amount of bupe should still be less than what Neko was giving. On the other hand, my civie of about the same weight, usually just needed half the dose Neko did.
 
Juliet said:
I was only given three pills of the mirtazapine and told to give every two days. It's 3.75mg
The bupe - attaching pic. Don't understand it. I was given six syringes to give every 12 hrs as needed
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I give Asia .075-.1 mL of bupe, she’s about 10 pounds, however, I don’t know the concentration of the bupe my vet gives her, so it’s hard to compare to what you have. My vet initially prescribed .1 mL and it was too much, I could tell because she and saucer eyes (very dilated pupils). It can last 12 hours, it’s really a thing like the larger the dose, the longer it lasts. When Asia had acute problems, like her kidney infection, I gave it every 8 hours. It has never sedated her, which I know is unusual.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Bupe can be given more often than 12 hours, some will dose less but more often, every 8 hours. I found the worst of the dopiness wore off after a couple hours. Tomorrow I would double check the dose with your vet, or maybe give a bit less tonight. And maybe get more mirtz from the vet.

Thanks for the pic Juliet. Neko, at 14 lbs, took 0.22 ml bupe, but the concentration was only 0.3 mg/ml. The vet has given you a higher concentration version at 0.8 mg/ml but the total amount of bupe should still be less than what Neko was giving. On the other hand, my civie of about the same weight, usually just needed half the dose Neko did.
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Oh I think Silver is 12lb now. He lost some. I only got six doses of the pain med. I gave it at 1pm and so can I give another one at night or not? I hadn't planned to. Oh and he's worked up a bit now. Not so dopey. Purring in his blanket fort.
 
When Phoebe started on bupe she was given the every 12 hours, we now do half dose every 8 hours. The sedated affect wore off with phoebe, but rather have a sleepy kitty than one in pain. She would eat when needed after newness wore off. You are doing great, deep breaths. Head bumps and chin scritches for your boy.
 
Juliet said:
Oh and @Wendy&Neko he syringes are prefilled for the bupe. If I squeeze some out to give less it's gone. Can't reuse.
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I got the prefilled ones initially too, when I realized it was too much, I pulled the prefilled plunger back for one and used and insulin syringe to draw some out of another and add it to the syringe I pulled back. An annoying way to get how much you want, but I didn’t want Asia all loopy either, so it worked.
 
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