4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244 PMPS 349 +5 298
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rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244
Hope Jenks goes for some more blues tonight....
Hope Jenks goes for some more blues tonight....
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244
i saw your question just now about why you might hold the dose longer when it didn't seem like it was doing much. How handy that Zeke kinda answered it this morning! And WOOT that you got a blue preshot!!! I sure wish i knew where he was a couple of hours before then - not that any of us would automatically have gotten a middle of the night test like that. i'm just saying.
The general strategy with our newly diagnosed kitties is to increase the dose fairly quickly, using the shorter number of days in between increases until the cat starts seeing blue numbers. then we slow down. you don't want to miss a good dose by going too fast, and some cats seem to settle into doses.
The tricky thing is that you don't want to hold a dose too long either. Holding them too long if a cat isn't getting good numbers just allows the cat's body to get used to higher numbers, and then it takes even more insulin to bring their numbers down. So it's a balancing act.
When we make suggestions, like i did last night, you are always free to do what you want. the guidelines are based upon experience on this site with what has worked with most kitties over the years. they aren't written in stone. we have seen that sometimes once cats start hitting blues, they just need a little more time on that dose, which is why it's suggested like that.
there's something wrong on Jenks' spreadsheet - i think 4/26 is missing, and that might have thrown the the data off. The 4/28 on his ss data doesn't match what you've got here - an amps 197 and +5/244. Can you peek at it and see if you can fix it?
With that amps and the +5 higher, it looks like he might be starting a bounce. Was he even higher at pmps?
i saw your question just now about why you might hold the dose longer when it didn't seem like it was doing much. How handy that Zeke kinda answered it this morning! And WOOT that you got a blue preshot!!! I sure wish i knew where he was a couple of hours before then - not that any of us would automatically have gotten a middle of the night test like that. i'm just saying.
The general strategy with our newly diagnosed kitties is to increase the dose fairly quickly, using the shorter number of days in between increases until the cat starts seeing blue numbers. then we slow down. you don't want to miss a good dose by going too fast, and some cats seem to settle into doses.
The tricky thing is that you don't want to hold a dose too long either. Holding them too long if a cat isn't getting good numbers just allows the cat's body to get used to higher numbers, and then it takes even more insulin to bring their numbers down. So it's a balancing act.
When we make suggestions, like i did last night, you are always free to do what you want. the guidelines are based upon experience on this site with what has worked with most kitties over the years. they aren't written in stone. we have seen that sometimes once cats start hitting blues, they just need a little more time on that dose, which is why it's suggested like that.
there's something wrong on Jenks' spreadsheet - i think 4/26 is missing, and that might have thrown the the data off. The 4/28 on his ss data doesn't match what you've got here - an amps 197 and +5/244. Can you peek at it and see if you can fix it?
With that amps and the +5 higher, it looks like he might be starting a bounce. Was he even higher at pmps?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244 PMPS 349
bounce! let's hope he clears it soon.
bounce! let's hope he clears it soon.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244 PMPS 349
Thanks, by the way, for a more thorough explanation of what goes into deciding how long to hold a dose. It also appears that my spreadsheet was indeed off. It is now fixed
What does the general wisdom hold now? Two more cycles at 3.25U? Or move to 3.50U?
And how does this possible bounce off of the morning blue factor into that decision?
Thanks, by the way, for a more thorough explanation of what goes into deciding how long to hold a dose. It also appears that my spreadsheet was indeed off. It is now fixed
What does the general wisdom hold now? Two more cycles at 3.25U? Or move to 3.50U?
And how does this possible bounce off of the morning blue factor into that decision?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244 PMPS 349
If he were mine, i'd go up another 0.25u in the morning.
my thinking is that his blues are not low blues, if they were low, i would hold another couple of cycles. but the goal is greens, so with just the sprinkling of mid/high blues here and there, i think i wouldn't wait longer.
the bouncing will lessen as he gets used to being in better numbers.
btw, devon (petermocha) who posted to you yesterday - mocha did go OTJ after almost 2 years. it's very, very common for cats to have to go up in dose until they hit the "sweet spot" and once that happens if we can hold them in good numbers for a period of time, their pancreas can heal and begin putting out insulin itself. when that happens they start to go down the dosing scale.
don't worry at all about the size of Jenks' dose, it's not unusual at all and doesn't signify anything about his chances of going off.
If he were mine, i'd go up another 0.25u in the morning.
my thinking is that his blues are not low blues, if they were low, i would hold another couple of cycles. but the goal is greens, so with just the sprinkling of mid/high blues here and there, i think i wouldn't wait longer.
the bouncing will lessen as he gets used to being in better numbers.
btw, devon (petermocha) who posted to you yesterday - mocha did go OTJ after almost 2 years. it's very, very common for cats to have to go up in dose until they hit the "sweet spot" and once that happens if we can hold them in good numbers for a period of time, their pancreas can heal and begin putting out insulin itself. when that happens they start to go down the dosing scale.
don't worry at all about the size of Jenks' dose, it's not unusual at all and doesn't signify anything about his chances of going off.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244 PMPS 349
ah, i forgot to answer about the bounce.
in general, we say to hold a dose until a bounce clears so that you can see what a dose really does. you don't want to look at the highs in a bounce phase and think that those high numbers mean the cat needs more insulin. you want to dose based upon the low number that a dose will get a cat to.
in a cat that goes from one bounce to the next, i like to look at the numbers in between the bounces to see what the dose is doing. for a cat that's bouncy, if you wait to increase until the bounce clears, sometimes you are stuck in nowhere land and unable to increase.
however, if his in between the bounce numbers were lower, i'd say to hold the dose until the bounce clears. at this point, i don't think we have to worry that when he clears the bounce he's going below 50. so at THIS phase, i'd go ahead and increase now without worrying about the bounce. In the future when he's closer to low numbers, it would become important to wait for the bounce to clear before increasing.
and i also forgot to say you're welcome for the long explanation! the stuff can get kind of involved and it helps to have someone explain the reasoning behind the protocol!
ah, i forgot to answer about the bounce.
in general, we say to hold a dose until a bounce clears so that you can see what a dose really does. you don't want to look at the highs in a bounce phase and think that those high numbers mean the cat needs more insulin. you want to dose based upon the low number that a dose will get a cat to.
in a cat that goes from one bounce to the next, i like to look at the numbers in between the bounces to see what the dose is doing. for a cat that's bouncy, if you wait to increase until the bounce clears, sometimes you are stuck in nowhere land and unable to increase.
however, if his in between the bounce numbers were lower, i'd say to hold the dose until the bounce clears. at this point, i don't think we have to worry that when he clears the bounce he's going below 50. so at THIS phase, i'd go ahead and increase now without worrying about the bounce. In the future when he's closer to low numbers, it would become important to wait for the bounce to clear before increasing.
and i also forgot to say you're welcome for the long explanation! the stuff can get kind of involved and it helps to have someone explain the reasoning behind the protocol!
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 4/28 Jenks AMPS 197 +5 244 PMPS 349
It helps immensely to be able to learn the explanations underlying the protocol. And I'm extraordinarily grateful to have the benefit of the combined knowledge of all of these experienced caregivers and for all the kind souls like you who are so invested in helping to get Jenks regulated, whether it's by providing wonderful explanations or simply offering words of support. I honestly don't know where we'd be if we hadn't found this place.
Up we go to 3.5U tomorrow!
It helps immensely to be able to learn the explanations underlying the protocol. And I'm extraordinarily grateful to have the benefit of the combined knowledge of all of these experienced caregivers and for all the kind souls like you who are so invested in helping to get Jenks regulated, whether it's by providing wonderful explanations or simply offering words of support. I honestly don't know where we'd be if we hadn't found this place.
Up we go to 3.5U tomorrow!
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