4/27 Basil AMBG 112 Temp Condo for Update & Some Qs

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Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA

Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA

Very Active Member
Good morning Everyone,

We're back in this sublet for the day with some questions.

WCR: Basil is great. He's happy, purry, energetic (for Basil), playful (for Basil) and has a great appetite. He divides his day between two favored lounging spots indoors, a position on the sunny deck, and some walk-abouts in the back and front yard. He is also back to pouncing on his sister and picking fights with her. She's less than thrilled. But, he also walks up to her and sniffs her nose politely from time to time, so she tolerates him.

Recap of the Issue: Basil's BG levels seemed to be high after his dental on 3/31. Not terribly high, just a bit higher than they had been. He had one 219 at the vet's office, and we flipped out a bit when he tossed us a 155 on 4/11. However, at that point he was predictably vomiting from the clavamox (he always does from antibiotics) and was acting quite stressed because we were keeping him confined to the house and fenced yard and he was begging to be let out into his territory in the day time. We'd also had house guests--Basil's favorite thing! <<---sarcasm

We got him a probiotic and he stopped vomiting. We began letting him out in the day and the numbers looked pretty much like his normal range of numbers, but on his higher end.

We decided to do a curve and see what we got. It looks to be on the high side of normal, but that 149 was a little unexpected. We spent a LONG time (all three beans) discussing this last night, and we aren't sure what the thing is to do, but we did want to get one more look from LLers before we proceed. Would someone be kind enough to give a look over his SS and see what it says to you?

PS: About 4/16, I introduced a batch of new FF flavors, going above our old range of 0-3% carbs and allowing him to have up to 8%. He LOVES The variety in his diet and has become much less fussy.

We're wondering if anyone has an opinion about:
1) Does this look like trip-to-the-vet territory?
2) Should we be starting a low-low dose of insulin?
4) Could the food be having an effect?
3) Could this be normal for Basil? His dental wasn't very long after he went OTJ. Could he just be readjusting and this is what he will look like?

Sorry for such a long post, but this is pretty subtle and we go back and forth about what the right thing is to do. Basil gets SO stressed by vet trips, we try to minimize them. (I used to have a vet who came to the house long ago...)

Thanks SO much!
 
Hi Lydia, I'm not great at ss interpretation so I can't advise you on that issue, but it seems to me that your list of possible reasons for Basil's rise in bg could be narrowed down by going back to the really low-carb food (0-3%) and seeing if eliminating the higher lc food will help. That is one variable on your list that would be easy for you to control. If, after a week or so on the low lc his bg doesn't improve, then you might consider whether or not to add a drop of insulin, whether or not to go back to the vet for a blood test to make sure that the bad bacteria are out of his system (and make sure that the good, digestive bacteria are present). I hope that the experts will be along soon to advise you. In the meantime, Stu and I offer support. Stu, in particular, knows how important it is to get outdoors!

Ella & Stu
 
Hi Ella,
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering about that myself. This is all so confusing. Why can't Basil just be a good boy and hit a BG of, oh--say 75 and stay there? ;)
 
Oh you are such a silly one, Lydia; you know the answer to that question.

Cuz Basil is a cat! And everyone knows that cats do whatever they please!
Pats and scratches for silly Basil.
 
Lydia,

I really can't offer more advice than what was given here. Just wanted to say hi and give support. Glad he is feeling good [I can see that his sister might not feel the same] :-D

Good luck with figuring this out. And tell Basil not to get any of his nice suits dirty on any trips outside. ;-)

jan and sara
 
Jan, Thanks for the good wishes. And Basil is not permitted to wear any of his suits--except his genuine birthday suit--outside. If nothing else, given his taste in clothing, I fear the neighbors might mistake him for a pimp! LOL!

Jill, That may very well be what we do. But, I was hoping to understand a bit more of the why. At what point do we say "This is not normal." How does raised blood sugar from an infection manifest itself? Is there an adjustment period after going OTJ? I realize this may be something that is clear to you--and maybe I'm a slow learner!--but as Basil's beans, we would like to understand better what we are doing and why. I don't mean that to be offensive, but I hope you can understand our desire to know why as well as what. And to see what more experienced eyes than ours are seeing when they look at Basil's SS.
 
Lydia and Basil said:
Jill, That may very well be what we do. But, I was hoping to understand a bit more of the why. At what point do we say "This is not normal." How does raised blood sugar from an infection manifest itself? Is there an adjustment period after going OTJ? I realize this may be something that is clear to you--and maybe I'm a slow learner!--but as Basil's beans, we would like to understand better what we are doing and why. I don't mean that to be offensive, but I hope you can understand our desire to know why as well as what. And to see what more experienced eyes than ours are seeing when they look at Basil's SS.
Click to expand...

no offense taken. things became totally out of whack on basil's ss at the time of the dental... and extractions were involved. from all that i've read here, it's not uncommon for something to be missed... and that something could be causing a problem in his mouth... resulting in the higher numbers. alex had a dental last august. no extractions and yet post-dental x-rays were done to make sure nothing was missed.

*usually* infection will cause the numbers to rise. without a vet visit, whether basil has an infection or not is unknown. the rise in numbers could be as simple as an irritation from a piece of tooth which was left in there. i really don't know. jojo hasn't been posting for several months now, but as a vet tech, she used to perform numerous dentals. dentals were her specialty. she always recommends post-dental x-rays based on her experiences.

given what we see on basil's ss, post-dental x-rays is the first place i'd start looking for a problem. if no problem exists there, i'd probably be asking the vet about b/w and u/a, but that's just me. b/w and u/a's often provide clues as to what is going on.

i'm a unclear as to what you mean when you ask "Is there an adjustment period after going OTJ?"...
 
Hi Jill and thanks,

That makes it clearer for me.
By that "mystery question," I mean after a kitty goes OTJ, does he usually stay in the BG range he is in right after the insulin was stopped, or is there a rise up or a dip or what? I tried looking all this up but can't find anything quantitative.

Here's what my #1 concern is right now. If you look at Basil's SS, you'll see a couple of 120-ish numbers right BEFORE the dental. If the wonkiness started before the dental, should he be on any insulin, perhaps WHILE we get x-rays and blood work? I'm not saying I think we should do that. I just don't know how his situation would have been evaluated had he not had the dental. Would you guys be looking and saying that this is what falling out of remission looks like?

Thanks again!
 
Lydia and Basil said:
Hi Jill and thanks,

That makes it clearer for me.
By that "mystery question," I mean after a kitty goes OTJ, does he usually stay in the BG range he is in right after the insulin was stopped, or is there a rise up or a dip or what? I tried looking all this up but can't find anything quantitative.
Click to expand...
i'm not surprised you can't find anything quantitative. it all depends on the cat. we've seen newly otj kitties settle into a range lower than when they were on the juice. tracy's pumpkin was one of them: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=paYTMc3huIpx0jjh0Aol6Wg. lynda's scruffy bobbled up and down before he settled down: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pBgdSVyNeKmKs12gfFJjldg. my alex stayed pretty steady when she came off the juice in 2009: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tp4_00PBJiGT_3rP0dTMJ3g&output=html. ECID holds true through every phase of this process.

Here's what my #1 concern is right now. If you look at Basil's SS, you'll see a couple of 120-ish numbers right BEFORE the dental. If the wonkiness started before the dental, should he be on any insulin, perhaps WHILE we get x-rays and blood work? I'm not saying I think we should do that. I just don't know how his situation would have been evaluated had he not had the dental. Would you guys be looking and saying that this is what falling out of remission looks like?
Click to expand...
personally, i don't sweat numbers in the 120ish numbers. basil was pulling himself down. however, it appears the numbers have trended higher since the dental. i guess that's what makes me so suspicious about something as silly as something left behind that shouldn't have been.

let's say basil did not have the dental and we were strictly looking at numbers... if he were mine, i don't think i'd be filling the syringe just yet, but i would take him in for an exam including b/w and an u/a to see if something was brewing... only because i would want to catch the problem (if there was a problem) and nip it in the bud before it became full blown.

hope that helps...
 
This makes a whole lot of sense to me. I will call tomorrow and hope I can convince my vet that Basil needs to be seen because I KNOW that his numbers look pretty darn good in the vet's eyes. I will try to get him to look at the direction rather than the absolute numbers.

Thank you so much for taking the time to address this. I will definitely keep you posted!
 
hey, lydia... i was just re-reading your comments on basil's spreadsheet and had another thought...
he was on clavamox for 5 days after the dental. i wonder if he needs another round of abs. it's not unusual for kitties to need a second round of abs to clear any bad bugs out of the system.
 
Just getting here now!! Hope you can get post dental xrays soon & tests, as this is not the OTJ Basil I know & love!!--We are happy to have you for a few days, but want you to be in the Falls real soon!!
Hope you can clear up this mystery--Hugs to all of you from all of us!! Moonie :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: Basil!!!
 
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