4/26 Luci AMPS 44 , 1/2+87,1+90,1.5+104,3+120,4+184,5+287

See what she is in 20 mins. Are you going to be around to monitor if you go ahead and shoot a low number? Do you have plenty of test strips and high carb?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
See what she is in 20 mins. Are you going to be around to monitor if you go ahead and shoot a low number? Do you have plenty of test strips and high carb?
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48 at 20 min / 64 on the Pet Meter - on her way up.
Just fed her LC FF pate.
Yes, plenty of all supplies and HC foods should they become necessary.

Yes, I work from home (key word there..work...of which not much might get done if Miss Luci here decides to get all tricky on me).

I'm going to go ahead with her usual ??? dose - we'll just be running a little behind schedule today...
 
Bron and Sheba said:
That’s pretty low to shoot. Are you sure you are happy with going ahead?
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I would agree if she were a picky eater or had any other issues - but Luci has eaten a hearty breakfast and I'm just getting suited up with my helicopter wings now. Timer is set to check her again in an hour and hourly or on the half after that if she stays below 100. I really hate to miss a shot altogether - it'll send her to the moon...we're here, we're armed and ready to do what needs to be done to keep her away from the sharks...
 
I never shot a number under 50. I would not encourage you to shoot lower than 50, either. There is no margin for safety. A shift from 44 to 48 is not reflective of numbers heading up -- they are the same number and I would not alternate between a pet and human meter. With numbers in this range, stick with one meter.

I would also not check every hour. I'd be checking Luci's numbers more often until you are sure where her numbers are going.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I never shot a number under 50. I would not encourage you to shoot lower than 50, either. There is no margin for safety. A shift from 44 to 48 is not reflective of numbers heading up -- they are the same number and I would not alternate between a pet and human meter. With numbers in this range, stick with one meter.

I would also not check every hour. I'd be checking Luci's numbers more often until you are sure where her numbers are going.
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How often would you recommend checking? I'm here.
 
Nice to see the green on her SS :D

Be a Good girl Lucy No diving ! Cat diving.jpg
 
I’m glad Luci is safe.

I’d like to make a few observations for your consideration.
  • As you said, you don’t know if she was headed up or down when you got a 44/48.
  • With meter variance, a 44/48 could have easily been in the 30s; even the pet meter BG was too low to shoot.
  • Two very experienced members told you more than once that we don’t shoot below 50 here.
  • You said you are there and work from home.
  • The sticky that deals with becoming data ready and dealing with low preshots lays out a safe plan when the PS is in the 40s:
    • stall 20 mins without food and retest to see if the number is rising on its own at the end of the cycle
    • if the BG is still in the 40s, feed a small tsp of LC food and retest in 20-30 minutes
    • shoot the rise but for newly dx cats, a drop into the 40s earns a dose reduction; for Luci it would have been a drop into the 30s.
You started out correctly but then veered off course when you shot a 48 after 20 mins stall and food but no retest after she ate. What was the hurry? My Gracie was a great eater, too. But that didn’t mean she didn’t give me cycles when she came right back down and I was struggling with keeping numbers up all cycle.

We have a lot of members here who never post but they read and they watch. Seeing someone shoot in the 40s and have it turn out ok could potentially give them the feeling it’s ok to do. It isn’t. Even using Levemir, which onsets at +4, and knowing that Gracie was on the way up, I was not comfortable shooting below 50.

There was no reason to not follow the guidelines to keep Luci safe. It’s not worth the risk. And frankly, if she hadn’t come out of the 40s, you shouldn’t have given insulin anyway. The one time in 5.5 years I skipped because of low numbers was when I followed the guidelines and Gracie hung around in the 40s so after 2 hours, I skipped, fed 10% and she was safe. So what if the numbers go up? They will come back down.

Sometimes we get way too caught up in the numbers here. I get it...I’m guilty. But now I can step back and see it differently. Please do not shoot below 50 again.
 
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Marje and Gracie said:
but then veered off course when you shot a 48 after 20 mins stall and food but no retest after she ate.
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Just to clarify: First test was 44
Stalled - NO FOOD was given.
Second test 48
Fed LC
Test after that was 87.

I figured you'd have something to say about all this. My cat, my choice. I know my cat and I felt that I made the right decision.
 
Sue and Luci said:
Just to clarify: First test was 44
Stalled - NO FOOD was given.
Second test 48
Fed LC
Test after that was 87.

I figured you'd have something to say about all this. My cat, my choice. I know my cat and I felt that I made the right decision.
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Yes, I understand that. Please reread my post. I said you did the first steps correctly. It was shooting right after you fed without waiting and testing again.

I’m not here to just tell members what they want to hear. I’m here to teach. Yes, she’s your cat. All of us very experienced members also knew our cats and we didn’t shoot below 50. I’m so glad it worked out well for Luci this time but there are times when insulin is going to surprise you.

And my other point was to think about the people who read but don’t post and don’t have the understanding of their cat. It is incumbent upon us here to be sure and let them know shooting below 50 is strongly discouraged.
 
FWIW, the one thing I never want to say to someone is, "I told you so." especially if it's at a time when a cat is in a hypoglycemic crisis. While this is by no means the case with Luci, it still breaks my heart that an experienced member here who was posting on FB thought it was just fine to shoot low and go out for the day and she came home to a dead cat. It does sometimes take someone who is looking at your spreadsheet and not immersed in the immediacy of the situation to give you a "wait a minute" because our perspective is different or maybe we've been here longer and have seen more. You are the person holding the syringe and you do know your cat better than anyone else. All we can do is offer information so you can make an informed decision. Personally, I'd far rather be wrong than say, "I told you so."


 
Sue and Luci said:
Just to clarify: First test was 44
Stalled - NO FOOD was given.
Second test 48
Fed LC
Test after that was 87.
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Sue, after reading thru the thread, could just be me, but I'm a little fuzzy on what number you actually shot and when. Do I have this right?

+12 44, 48
Fed
+12.25 64 (20 min later), waited until +12.5 to shoot?
+1.5 87, 90

I don't want to tick you off, I'm just curious...
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Sue, after reading thru the thread, could just be me, but I'm a little fuzzy on what number you actually shot and when. Do I have this right?

+12 44, 48
Fed
+12.25 64 (20 min later), waited until +12.5 to shoot?
+1.5 87, 90

I don't want to tick you off, I'm just curious...
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I’ll just toss in that the 64 was the AT. Sue can clarify but I believe she got a 44, retested in 20, got a 48 human meter/64 AT, fed and shot. I believe the 87 was at +0.5.
 
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Marje and Gracie said:
I’ll just toss in that the 64 was the AT. Sue can clarify but I believe she got a 44, retested in 20, got a 48 human meter/64 AT, fed and shot. I believe the 87 was at +0.5.
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Bron and Sheba said:
Yes, that is correct.
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I wish Sue has responded, but given the circumstances, I'm not sure I would have either.

I want to be very careful about what I'm about to say...

All experienced members who have replied on this thread are unequivocally correct... 100% correct... absolutely right. They're correct for every one and all the reasons they've mentioned.

At the same time, I understand Sue's reasoning... and make no mistake... she thought her actions out. As an experienced caregiver she attempted to get a better feel for where Luci was at by stalling and even checking her BG against a pet meter. Sue's not reckless. There's no doubt in my mind she gave serious thought to shooting low, her availability to monitor, the ramifications of her actions, and willingness to do whatever it took to keep Luci safe. Making independent decisions is a point some individual caregivers may come to on their own. It's their choice. They're not asking permission.

While I don't condone nor would suggest anyone shoot below 50 mg/dL/ 68 mmoL, I know it's been done (including by me), but not before the caregiver thought it out carefully, made a reasoned and careful decision, and committed to doing whatever was necessary for the cat.

I don't want anyone to think veering from the norm isn't risky, because it is. Most shouldn't chance that risk... EVER. It's a big risk and usually not necessary.

Truth be told, this is the point where caregivers who veer from the norm often stop posting. It's not hard to see why. On the other hand, it would be extremely irresponsible of experienced members to remain silent in a situation like this. I'd be very disappointed if they didn't speak up. They did... as they should.

That said and all-in-all, I hope to see another Luci condo tomorrow....
 
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