4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2 83 +3 39 +4 60 +5 65 + 8 122 +11 101

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Tina & Rocky

Tina & Rocky

Member Since 2013
Good morning,

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=117780

Rocky's BG is super high this morning. That is so sad to see. :cry: He was doing so great for two days there. I did give him only 1.0u last night to be on the safe side after we saw that 39 and I wasn't sure how many hours he had been at that number, or if he had gone even lower than that. I fed him LC and MC from AMPS +9 yesterday through PMPS +1 yesterday after that test of 39.

He was in mostly green numbers from 4/23 through 4/24 up until that 563 test at PMPS +11.

Here's a Rocky recap of yesterday:

AMPS 84 74 66 39 72 59 62 65
PMPS 68 66 75 109 563!!!

Can you please advise me on how much insulin to give him this morning? confused_cat His shot time is less than 1/2hr from now. Thank you! :YMHUG:

PS.. I'm thinking of feeding him his 0% carb foods for all 4 of his AMPS mini-meals today.
 
Re: SHOT DOSE HELP! 4/25 Rocky Bouncing badly-> 563 @ PMBG +

Good morning ~O) :cool:

Given we don't know how long Rocky was low, how fast he got there or how low he may have went I'm not surprised at the bounce.

My $0.02 is to proceed with the reduced dose of f1.50u (down .25u from the f1.75u that took him to the lowlands) feed as normal and wait out the bounce.

Others are sure to chime in. . .
 
Re: SHOT DOSE HELP! 4/25 Rocky Bouncing badly-> 563 @ PMBG +

I think I'd take the reduction like the bounce hadn't happened ...since it look like you're using calipers and can keep the dose consistent, a fat 1.5 is where to go from here

He earned the .25 reduction and we take those drops into the 30's seriously

Good luck Tina, and come on Rocky...break that bounce....but not in 3 hours or less!!
 
Re: (f)1.50 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490

Thank you Sandy and Chris. I fed him the 0% carb food and gave him the shot of (f)1.50u.
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452

A couple of things..

I think a lesson was learned here yesterday and today..

First, I think I need to give a *slight* reducie if I cannot be here to monitor Rocky all day long when he is on a dose that is really working excellent to keep his numbers tightly regulated.

Second, I need to shoot through the bounce with the last good dose that worked well for him, even if it was one that caused his BG to go below 50. I should not give a reducie when he is bouncing in the black or red numbers. Pretty consistently Rocky has shown us that he does not swiftly recover from those bounces that have him skyrocketing into the black hole magnet of outer space. :cry:

I'm not a diabetic so I have no idea what it feels like to go from one extremely in BG to the other.

This is a first.. Rocky is not eating any of his mini-meals this morning.

Oh and Chris, I don't have calipers and have not purchased any yet. But maybe Shelly wants to sell me hers since she never got to use them with Jersey. I bet she's really sad about that-- NOT! :lol:
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452

My $0.02 :cool:

Tina & Rocky said:
First, I think I need to give a *slight* reducie if I cannot be here to monitor Rocky all day long when he is on a dose that is really working excellent to keep his numbers tightly regulated.
Click to expand...
Remember, Lantus is a long acting insulin whose effects are cumulative, reducing 'slightly' is more likely to show an effect later rather than sooner.
As an example think about how after an actual reduction depot action is in play for a cycle or 2.

Tina & Rocky said:
Second, I need to shoot through the bounce with the last good dose that worked well for him, even if it was one that caused his BG to go below 50. I
Click to expand...
The "last good dose" is not the dose that just dropped kitty into the 20s or 30s.

Rocky was in the 30s for an unknown period of time and acting weird.
The rule of thumb, for safetys sake is that If your cat drops into the 30s, a full reduction of 0.25u is recommended.

I'm sure others will chime in. . .
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307

Sandy,
Remember, Lantus is a long acting insulin whose effects are cumulative, reducing 'slightly' is more likely to show an effect later rather than sooner.
As an example think about how after an actual reduction depot action is in play for a cycle or 2.
Click to expand...

Sure, that is the case. But if I had *slightly* reduced him to 1.75u instead of giving him the (f)1.75u before I left the house yesterday he might not have dropped into the 30s at all.

Do people give BCS when they know they won't be home to monitor/test? confused_cat

That's what I think I should have done yesterday morning. I understand shooting the greatly reduced dose of 1.0u last night for his safety. He did still surf A LOT in green and blue last night on that dose of 1.0u. I think it's highly possible I would have been feeding him all night long to keep his numbers above 50 *IF* I had given him a shot of (f)1.50u. I think it would have been too much insulin.

I actually tested him twice this morning. His very first reading at last night's PMPS +11 said "H-i" on my meter. I immediately retested and it was 563. It was likely he could have been into the 600s! It's not wonder he didn't want to eat anything all morning.

He is eating now, at 3pm, now that his BG is in the 300s. I'm glad he's back down into pinks but it's still too high.
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307

I have shot a BCS dose before when I had to go to work and wasn't sure how low Furball would go. But I also know that the reduced dose may not have an effect on the current cycle due to the depot. It may not make a difference until later on. Good luck with the new dose for Rocky. I hope he keeps sliding down.
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307

I think what Sandy is trying to tell you and which is usually my concern with shooting a reduced dose is that if the depot is very big (as it appears his was), you might not see any difference in the numbers the cycle you shoot the reduced dose. If you had shot a reduced dose yesterday morning, it is very likely that the cycle would have still looked the same. You would see the effects more likely in a subsequent cycle. But that also depends on the depot. I know when Gracie's depot is really big and she's dropped into the 20s or 30s, she might still run lower for the next four cycles after I reduced her dose.

If you had skipped, it "might" have drained his depot a little faster. He wouldn't have had any insulin to onset from. However, because of the cumulative nature of lantus and levemir, there are no guarantees. If he was getting really good duration, he might have still come down even without a new shot to onset from.
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307

for what it's worth, his bounces have been getting shorter in recent weeks. the longer that he spends in green numbers, the more his body gets used to those numbers. it appears that he's already come down some from his high point.

wrapping one's head around the depot idea takes some doing. just remember that a dose can influence as many as 6 subsequent cycles.

i think there were 2 clues yesterday morning that he was headed for a low cycle.

One was that there wasn't any food spike and the +1 was lower than the amps. The second was when your amps was 84 and less than 2 hrs later he was 66. that's a 20% drop from the amps, which would say "we're headed down!" at that point taking him with you, changing plans to leave, leaving high carb food, all might have been options. The best anybody can do in this dance is to look at yesterday's experience and decide what you might be able to do differently in the future to prevent it. I'm not saying any of that to make you feel in any way guilty, just pointing out what you could look for next time and options for handling it then.

hang in there tina!
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307

What I have seen people do and what I have done if I know I'm going to be away and am concerned about a cycle, is to shoot a slightly reduced dose for two cycles. In other words, the night before and the morning of the day you are going to be gone. If the PS the morning you are going away is a surprise, then absolutely people shoot a BCS, leave high carb food, get someone to stop in mid day for a feeding, set the autofeeder for nadir.

And I agree with Julie that Rocky's bounces are getting shorter. I've seen cats where there becomes a point where it's no longer a good idea to shoot through the bounce, especially if the depot is really full.

Good to see Rocky getting over his mega bounce so quickly this time! Looking forward to see where he is at PMPS.
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307

Hi Tina,

Sorry to see that Rocky decided to bounce, although I'm not surprised after yesterday's low! :YMSIGH: Let's hope he comes back down to some prettier (but less dramatic) numbers tonight.

Oh and Chris, I don't have calipers and have not purchased any yet. But maybe Shelly wants to sell me hers since she never got to use them with Jersey. I bet she's really sad about that-- NOT! :lol:
Click to expand...

I actually won't sell anything to anyone here. However, I will donate it. I'm just waiting another week or two to make sure that we're still headed in the right direction. Then I'm going to start donating all of our extra items to those who could use them. It's the only way I know to pay it forward. (The calipers might come too late for you by then - hopefully Rocky will be OTJ by that point! :-D)

Have a great night!
Shelly
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307 +9 359

It looks like Rocky is on his way back up and i have no idea why...he didn't even eat 4 meals today. He wouldn't. I think he didn't feel good until he got into the 300s. He ate the 1/4 can of food, zero percent carb, that was his +1 meal. He did, however, eat all of his PMPS meal yesterday a few hours early, and, it was a lot of HC.

I can't really wrap my head around the delayed onset of the insulin. It still doesn't make sense to me.

What I think I need to do next time this happens, when I know that I am going to be away for about 8 hours and cannot test, is to do what Wendy suggests. I need to do a BCS the night before and the day I'm gone. I don't like these black numbers at all.

Shelly, you are a LOT more hopeful about Rocky going OTJ than I am.. When I see bounces that send his BG numbers into hyper-orbit outer-space it's hard for me to believe that he will ever go into remission.
 
Re: ☹ YUCK! 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307 +9 359

Tina, Rocky is in the last half of the cycle. Until the depot is stable and he's done with his bounce, it's no surprise that he's headed up some.

Hopefully he won't go too much higher and will work on clearing this bounce more in the PM cycle (but not clear it TOO much, too fast)

Rocky has been clearing his bounces faster than he used to, so you just need to be patient and let it happen. Some kitties are bouncier than others, and although we all hate to see those high numbers, the highs from a bounce aren't supposed to be as hard on them as just being high (that's what I've read anyway in other condos)

This too shall pass...and the sooner the better for his mamabean!
 
Re: 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253

Hi Tina. I wasn't able to check in yesterday. It looks like you and Rocky have been quite busy. I hope the reduction works once the bounce clears.
 
Re: 4/25 Rocky AMPS 490 +2 452 +5 307 +9 359 +11 269

Hi there :cool:

A very nice float down to 253 there - go Rocky!

Wendy&Neko said:
And I agree with Julie that Rocky's bounces are getting shorter. I've seen cats where there becomes a point where it's no longer a good idea to shoot through the bounce, especially if the depot is really full.
Click to expand...
Very important points.

Tina & Rocky said:
He did, however, eat all of his PMPS meal yesterday a few hours early, and, it was a lot of HC.
Click to expand...
He may be developing a preferance for the HC ;-)
 
Re: 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253

Marje, Wendy, Sandy, Julie, Chris--

I've finally had a moment to sit down and re-read all of your comments in this condo. I think I might understand what you are saying about the delayed onset. You think his depot was too full yesterday morning when I gave him his morning shot. You believe there was a cumulative effect of too much insulin in him and maybe even if I had skipped that morning shot his BG still might have gone too low yesterday.. In other words, there might have been nothing I could do yesterday except for plan on feeding him small amount of HC to keep his BG above 50.

But about today-- I think I've shot the too high dose that brought him too low through one of his bounces before, and then not given him the reducie until the NEXT cycle.. Why didn't we want to do that for Rocky this morning? Am i wrong about that? confused_cat

Elise, you've been managing a lot lately.. I appreciate that you would stop by my condo to say 'hi.' But please, take care of yourself and your kitty first. I know that you are, but you know what I mean. Just really worried about you guys.. :cry:
 
Re: ☹ Holy CRUD! Another allnighter. 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2

I am feeding him the 3% carb Artemis Turkey tonight so he is getting carbs for these mini-meals and not the NVIV 0% carbs. I wonder why he is dropping so much tonight? :roll:
 
Re: ☹ Holy CRUD! Another allnighter. 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2

Surf it Rocky - no need to keep momma up again!

Sometimes when cat's are breaking a bounce, the cycle has a lot of downward momentum. I'd get a +2.5. If you haven't already, you might want to try a tsp or two of HC to slow him down a little. I hope he doesn't keep you up all night.
 
Re: ☹ Holy CRUD! Another allnighter. 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2

Tina & Rocky said:
But about today-- I think I've shot the too high dose that brought him too low through one of his bounces before, and then not given him the reducie until the NEXT cycle.. Why didn't we want to do that for Rocky this morning? Am i wrong about that?
Click to expand...

Then -
04/16/AM - BG 161 - you shot 2.25u . At AM+11 he tested 41 and earned a reduction.
04/16/PM - BG 52 - you skipped. PM+11 was 477
04/17/AM - BG 533 - Going up - you shot 2.25u, 'through the bounce'.
AM+2 - 432
AM+7 - 369
AM+11 - 375
04/17/PM - BG 356 - Going down - you shot f2.0u - partial reduction taken.
PM+2 - 277
PM+4 - 251
PM+9 - 122
PM+11 - 84 bounce cleared.
04/18/AM - working to hard to keep BG up -reduced to 2.0u

The skipped shot 04/16/PM drained the depot some.
BG was on the rise 04/16/ AM , 477-->356 in 1 hour prior to shot

Now -
Rockys insulin need is lower now than it was then. 1.75u vs 2.25u
You don't know how long he was in the 30s or if he was lower.
He was behaving strangely
Less depot drainage since you did not skip a shot - The BCS was greater than half of his dose.
BG was dropping this morning, 563-->490 in 1 hour prior to shot

ETA - I just saw the PM+2, which pretty much sums it up ;-) :cool:
Wendy is right about momentum. Trust us on that
He may be on a mission.. .
 
Re: Whew.. 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2 83 +3 39 +3.5 51

I should have got a +2.5 test for sure, Sandy. I really didn't think that he would be going any lower tonight. In fact, I thought he would go back up after that BG of 83. I'm not that used to him breaking a bounce in one cycle yet, I guess. :roll:

I fed him his last evening mini-meal and added (1)TBS of the MC to it. I didn't add any Karo but I probably should have. I will re-test him at +4.

I guess he's getting another reducie in the morning down to (f)1.25? I wouldn't know how to give that. There's mark for a that..I don't know how to shot a 1.25u. I feel like I'm ruining things for him by not keeping a closer eye on his BG.

He ate great. He ate everything. He is excited and wants to eat more if I would give him more food. :lol:

Is there a photo of a 1.25u dose somewhere in this FDMB? I need to see it before tomorrow if there is one, please!! :YMHUG:
 
Re: Whew.. 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2 83 +3 39 +3.5 51

Tina & Rocky said:
I really didn't think that he would be going any lower tonight. In fact, I thought he would go back up after that BG of 83. I'm not that used to him breaking a bounce in one cycle yet, I guess. :roll:
Click to expand...

Rocky has a different agenda. :cool:

You did fine. I don't think this was 'whip out the karo' time. Keep an eye on him though.

As a reminder -
• The general rule of thumb is we like to see 2 tests with rising numbers, without influence of food, before calling it a night.
• After +6, if Rocky 80's, you are OK with once an hour testing as long as he's not diving .

Regarding the next shot -
Make sure and ask for eyes and input around +11 OK?.

eta - It's getting early - I need some shut-eye .
 
Re: 4/25 Rocky PMPS 253 +2 83 +3 39 +3.5 51 +4 60 +5 65

Thank you for staying up with me Sandy! You ROCK! \M/ I'm glad you are finally getting some shut-eye.

I hadn't gone to bed yet. Had just turned the computer off 'cause it was running super hot. I've been cleaning up the cat room where the fosters live. Everything in my house looks like that cat room right now-- one gigantic mess. It's 3:20am.

It rained a lot here where I live and there was thunder today and it was really sort of peaceful and energizing to me at the same time. I had so much to do and I don't think I've slept for a few days now. I'm not sure how I'm still standing. Something else is taking over. Maybe I had a "walk-in." :? :lol: It's suppose to rain all weekend long and I'm happy for it. I hope I can catch up on some much needed sleep during the day light hours since I haven't seen my bed at night very much lately. I walk past it to use the bathroom and see my husband asleep with about 6 cats piled on next to him where I USED TO rest. It must be nice. :-D
 
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