4/25 Has anyone had problems with ReliOn syringes causing injection pain? .

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Glennie

Glennie

Member Since 2016
I'm using .31 gauge ReliOn syringes, 8mm length, and I'm not sticking it all the way in. I talked to my dentist about ordering me some topical anesthetic like they use for oral injections, and he was very willing but said it only works in the mouth so that's out. Has anyone ever gotten defective syringes? During one of the injections it felt like there was resistance (as if I had to puncture the skin) so I'm wondering about the needle itself.

I'm injecting in her tummy on her bald spot because she won't let me inject in her scruff. If I try while she's eating, she is done with her food. I have a helper (DH or DD) loving on her to get her to relax so I can inject. I use different areas of her stomach to inject. I thought her tummy would be super sensitive, but she's been fine until recently. I'm going in parallel to the skin with the slanted tip up. Her tummy is less fat since she has lost weight with the diabetes.

This morning she jumped and cried, and the needle came out along with a tiny bit of insulin. There was still .5U in the syringe so I was able to inject that much of the .75U dose. It seems like each shot is getting increasingly more difficult to administer.

Frustrating! At first I could give her shots, and she was fine, and the testing was the challenge. Now while she dislikes testing a lot, it's the easier part and the injection is the challenge.

I just changed my title so that probably seems confusing. The responses below were to my question about Callie's crying when I inject. I need to consider injection site change and maybe a muscle shot also. But wondering about syringes which I'm going to replace today.
 
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You may be hitting muscle or she's developed a bit of scar tissue in that area. Sometimes Lantus stings but usually at a much higher dose.

Have you tried the shoulder or flank area? Not sure if it's defective needles but to rule it out I'd open a new box.
 
Hey Glennie, it sounds like you are doing everything correctly but as Karen, if you are feeling some resistance and she is crying, you could be hitting muscle. Could you try another area to inject. I shot the shoulders mostly.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
You may be hitting muscle or she's developed a bit of scar tissue in that area. Sometimes Lantus stings but usually at a much higher dose.

Have you tried the shoulder or flank area? Not sure if it's defective needles but to rule it out I'd open a new box.
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Thanks, Karen. Yes, I have tried those areas. There is a picture of some different injection sites in one of the stickies, and I've tried those. I'll try again though as things may have changed. I could be hitting scar tissue, but I have alternated sites as much as possible on her tummy area. It's a fairly large area I'm injecting into.

I honestly think it's the needle sting and not the Lantus stinging as she reacts as soon as I break the skin and even before I inject.

I will buy a new box of syringes today. I hope that's the problem.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I inject Teasel anywhere along his side from about his "waist" to just in front of his hip.
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Does Teasel mind? I'll try those areas. I had shaved Callie along that area for more injection area, but she didn't like it.
How is Teasel feeling today after his vet appointment yesterday? Hope for good appy today for him.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Glennie, it sounds like you are doing everything correctly but as Karen, if you are feeling some resistance and she is crying, you could be hitting muscle. Could you try another area to inject. I shot the shoulders mostly.
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Thanks, Bobbie. I'll try some other areas as I said above, and we'll see, I guess, and I just added a stop to Walmart for new syringes to my list. I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with ReliOn syringes? I wonder if I should try syringes from Walgreens, although last time I tried them, they didn't have what I needed.

My DD did say it looked like I had the wrong angle a few times, but then even with correcting that, she cried. It felt like the resistance came at the skin level. Sorry for going on and on; just trying to figure this out. Thinking out loud through my fingers. LOL
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Are you "tenting" the skin when you shoot? Pulling it up to form a little pyramid, then shooting into the loose skin in the center?
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Yep, I'm doing that, although she doesn't have as much loose skin as she did since her weight loss with the diabetes diagnosis. Thanks so much for the idea though. I appreciate any and all input. I need to figure this out, because if she won't let me inject her, we have a problem.
 
We always shot in the shoulder or scruff area, which has the most loose skin. We never shot anywhere else, and Cinco was on insulin for almost 5 years, so I don't think shooting in the same area creates problems.

I know you think it's the needle, but could it be that the insulin is cold? Do you shoot pretty quickly after taking it out of the fridge? My husband always held the pen in his hand for a minute or two, to kind of take the chill off it. Just a thought.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
We always shot in the shoulder or scruff area, which has the most loose skin. We never shot anywhere else, and Cinco was on insulin for almost 5 years, so I don't think shooting in the same area creates problems.

I know you think it's the needle, but could it be that the insulin is cold? Do you shoot pretty quickly after taking it out of the fridge? My husband always held the pen in his hand for a minute or two, to kind of take the chill off it. Just a thought.
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Yep, the insulin is cold. I take it out just before filling and get it back in immediately. I could fill a little earlier and just warm the syringe in my hands. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

I can't get Callie to hold still for a scruff shot. She just walks off or rears her head back. The tummy area has worked because she's lying down getting loved on, and she relaxes a bit so I can shoot, or at least she did till a week ago. :banghead:

I really hope it's not the needle. It's just when I stuck one of the needles out of the new box in, my daughter and I almost heard it break the skin. We looked at each other, surprised. I asked her if she heard it and she said yes. Trying not to think about it...Maybe I did hit muscle. My poor cat! And she has reacted badly ever since.

Thanks for the thought! I appreciate you taking the time. :)
 
Glennie said:
And she has reacted badly ever since.
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You know, it might be that you did hit muscle one time, and now she associates getting her shot with the pain, so even though it isn't hurting anymore, she reacts as though it does. Like we all flinch when we get a shot, even though sometimes it doesn't hurt. Make sense?
 
I had to desensitize Chuck to the shot process. I shot in his flank by his hip and it hurt him more than his scruff area. So every time I would pinch and pull his skin he would pull away and squirm. So I started doing it over and over at random times with the syringe that had a cap on it. I would "poke" him with the cap on (pretending he was getting a shot) just so he would see that it doesn't hurt and he's ok. It seemed to help. He doesn't freak out every time now.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
You know, it might be that you did hit muscle one time, and now she associates getting her shot with the pain, so even though it isn't hurting anymore, she reacts as though it does. Like we all flinch when we get a shot, even though sometimes it doesn't hurt. Make sense?
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It makes perfect sense. Yes, thank you!
 
StephG said:
I had to desensitize Chuck to the shot process. I shot in his flank by his hip and it hurt him more than his scruff area. So every time I would pinch and pull his skin he would pull away and squirm. So I started doing it over and over at random times with the syringe that had a cap on it. I would "poke" him with the cap on (pretending he was getting a shot) just so he would see that it doesn't hurt and he's ok. It seemed to help. He doesn't freak out every time now.
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That's a really good idea. I'll give that a try. Thank you! So are you injecting at the hip now or the scruff?
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Where did you shoot the first time she cried out? Maybe avoid that area for sure. If you go with a completely different area for a while, maybe she'll learn it doesn't hurt there.
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The bald tummy area since for a reason that I haven't been able to figure out, no hair has grown there since about a month before she was diagnosed. It was just a good place to shoot because she didn't seem to mind it. Most of the time she didn't seem to realize she had had a shot. There was extra skin, no hair, and she just relaxed and received her cuddles. Voila, all done! Till recently...
 
Glennie said:
Does Teasel mind? I'll try those areas. I had shaved Callie along that area for more injection area, but she didn't like it.
How is Teasel feeling today after his vet appointment yesterday? Hope for good appy today for him.
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No, Teasel only reacts when my aim is off. He has a lot of loose skin there and I pull it well away to make a tall "tent", feel for the tent "door" and poke straight in. It's important for the tent door to be taut.
 
Thanks everyone for your ideas, your help, support, and encouragement. I really appreciate it. Something in all of these ideas has got to help us.
Kris & Teasel said:
No, Teasel only reacts when my aim is off. He has a lot of loose skin there and I pull it well away to make a tall "tent", feel for the tent "door" and poke straight in. It's important for the tent door to be taut.
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I'll check my technique to make sure I'm doing all of that, but I think I am. I don't poke straight in though. I do the angle thing. Thanks, Kris. And I just read your post about Teasel doing well today. Yay!
 
I know it may seem basic and obvious, but are you making sure that the needle's bevel is facing up? If it's not, that may be contributing to the discomfort.

Also, if the tenting isn't working for you, have you tried the pinch'n'roll technique? Pinch some of the skin between your thumb and forefinger (avoid grabbing muscle underneath) and then roll your hand sideways. If using the left hand, for instance, roll to the left so that the index finger is underneath the roll and the thumb is on top. This makes the cats skin much tighter than tenting it, which theoretically lets the needle penetrate much easier than it does trying to push it through a loose tent.
 
AZJenks said:
I know it may seem basic and obvious, but are you making sure that the needle's bevel is facing up? If it's not, that may be contributing to the discomfort.

Also, if the tenting isn't working for you, have you tried the pinch'n'roll technique? Pinch some of the skin between your thumb and forefinger (avoid grabbing muscle underneath) and then roll your hand sideways. If using the left hand, for instance, roll to the left so that the index finger is underneath the roll and the thumb is on top. This makes the cats skin much tighter than tenting it, which theoretically lets the needle penetrate much easier than it does trying to push it through a loose tent.
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I don't mind the basic and obvious at all, but yes, I am making sure the bevel is up. I've never tried the pinch 'n' roll technique, but I'll give it a shot. I'm going to try any of the suggestions that might work for her, and I appreciate all ideas. So when you pinch and roll, you still inject in the skin between the finger and thumb? Does that question make sense? Thank you so much.

I've already tried some of the ideas. I think I need to find some extra skin on her that she doesn't mind me messing with. Last night I tried (without a needle) some of the shooting areas mentioned, and she was not cooperative at all. I also did the pretend injection with the cap on the needle, while she rolled around and purred. I don't know...But at least we able to get her full dose in last night and this morning.
 
Glennie said:
I don't mind the basic and obvious at all, but yes, I am making sure the bevel is up. I've never tried the pinch 'n' roll technique, but I'll give it a shot. I'm going to try any of the suggestions that might work for her, and I appreciate all ideas. So when you pinch and roll, you still inject in the skin between the finger and thumb? Does that question make sense? Thank you so much.

I've already tried some of the ideas. I think I need to find some extra skin on her that she doesn't mind me messing with. Last night I tried (without a needle) some of the shooting areas mentioned, and she was not cooperative at all. I also did the pretend injection with the cap on the needle, while she rolled around and purred. I don't know...But at least we able to get her full dose in last night and this morning.
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Glennie, I've gone through spells where the injections seem to have bothered Teasel more even though I was sure that my technique was the same shot to shot. I'd make an extra effort to pay close attention to how tight I was holding the tent, and how taut the tent door depression was. I also learned that he has a few spots along his side "above" his waist closer to his elbow that are no go - too sensitive. He's a very splotchy cat so I use some of his markings to remember where the good spots are.
 
I wonder if there are big quality control issues with syringes and needles. My latest batch of BD 1/2 unit syringes have the 0 line in a different position on the tube than the previous batches.
 
the belly area may be a lot more sensitive....

maybe you could get some numbzit type cream....

if you have a good relationship with any of your doctors.... I know there is some topical numbing solution
because my ear dr puts it on my eardrum when he puts a tube in my eardrum every 3-4 months....
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Glennie, I've gone through spells where the injections seem to have bothered Teasel more even though I was sure that my technique was the same shot to shot. I'd make an extra effort to pay close attention to how tight I was holding the tent, and how taut the tent door depression was. I also learned that he has a few spots along his side "above" his waist closer to his elbow that are no go - too sensitive. He's a very splotchy cat so I use some of his markings to remember where the good spots are.
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I hope that it's just a spell she's going through. I'm paying closer attention to what I'm doing, but this morning she cried and pulled away again. I did get it all in though. She isn't letting me around any other areas that were suggested. I'm going to keep trying though without a needle just to try to get her used to me tenting new areas.

Now a new concern: she threw up for the 4th time in 13 days. A few of our cats vomit often, but not Callie and so this is unusual for her. :banghead: I'm probably being paranoid. Make that 5 times (2 today) I just found some vomit in the YA that I had out. The last 4 times were FF.

I'm not trying to be too needy or monopolizing time there are hypos happening. Just worried about her.
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
the belly area may be a lot more sensitive....

maybe you could get some numbzit type cream....

if you have a good relationship with any of your doctors.... I know there is some topical numbing solution
because my ear dr puts it on my eardrum when he puts a tube in my eardrum every 3-4 months....[/QUOTE
That's a thought. When I checked with my dentist about the topical they use before injecting in the mouth, he said it wouldn't work on skin. I'll try to find the regular topical. Thanks!
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MJW said:
I wonder if there are big quality control issues with syringes and needles. My latest batch of BD 1/2 unit syringes have the 0 line in a different position on the tube than the previous batches.
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I've found different 0 lines also on a few of the syringes--not this batch but previous ones. When you're using small doses, that's a big deal. I ended up throwing some syringes away since it seemed like such a difference. What did you decide to do about your syringes? Someone suggested using calipers for more accuracy with those small doses and needle variations. I was going to get new syringes today but got sidetracked and didn't. So we'll see how tonight goes. Thank you!
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
the belly area may be a lot more sensitive....

maybe you could get some numbzit type cream....

if you have a good relationship with any of your doctors.... I know there is some topical numbing solution
because my ear dr puts it on my eardrum when he puts a tube in my eardrum every 3-4 months....
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That's no fun--your eardrum needing a tube every 3-4 months. :eek: It's good though that it can be done without a general. Thanks again for the idea.
 
Glennie said:
I hope that it's just a spell she's going through. I'm paying closer attention to what I'm doing, but this morning she cried and pulled away again. I did get it all in though. She isn't letting me around any other areas that were suggested. I'm going to keep trying though without a needle just to try to get her used to me tenting new areas.

Now a new concern: she threw up for the 4th time in 13 days. A few of our cats vomit often, but not Callie and so this is unusual for her. :banghead: I'm probably being paranoid. Make that 5 times (2 today) I just found some vomit in the YA that I had out. The last 4 times were FF.

I'm not trying to be too needy or monopolizing time there are hypos happening. Just worried about her.
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Whenever I read "vomit" I think that daily ketone testing is in order for a while.
 
Glennie said:
That's no fun--your eardrum needing a tube every 3-4 months. :eek: It's good though that it can be done without a general. Thanks again for the idea.
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one of my eardrums is relocated over the eustachian tube.... and it collapses if we don't keep a tube in it.... it sucks itself inward.
I could have anesthesia but that would make it cost a whole bunch more...
i usually sit in the chair, squeeze my shoe hard trying to concentrate on being still.....

it does hurt... much as i imagine what an icepick to the eardrum would feel like....

just lucky, i am....:nailbiting:
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
one of my eardrums is relocated over the eustachian tube.... and it collapses if we don't keep a tube in it.... it sucks itself inward.
I could have anesthesia but that would make it cost a whole bunch more...
i usually sit in the chair, squeeze my shoe hard trying to concentrate on being still.....

it does hurt... much as i imagine what an icepick to the eardrum would feel like....

just lucky, i am....:nailbiting:
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Yikes!!!!
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
one of my eardrums is relocated over the eustachian tube.... and it collapses if we don't keep a tube in it.... it sucks itself inward.
I could have anesthesia but that would make it cost a whole bunch more...
i usually sit in the chair, squeeze my shoe hard trying to concentrate on being still.....

it does hurt... much as i imagine what an icepick to the eardrum would feel like....

just lucky, i am....:nailbiting:
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That's awful--having to dread having that done so often. I retract my statement about it being good that you don't have to have a general! You don't get to have general anesthesia! It's amazing you are able to hold still with that much pain, especially in your ear. :arghh: Feeling bad for you....
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Whenever I read "vomit" I think that daily ketone testing is in order for a while.
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I don't know anything about what that means other than a urine test. Catching her urine among 6 cats is going to be a challenge. I'll read up on it. I have been thinking maybe something more is going on, just didn't want to even think about it. I've seen it mentioned umpteen times, but I haven't read about it. Thanks though. Playing denial here isn't going to help if she's got something going on. :bighug:
 
Glennie said:
I don't know anything about what that means other than a urine test. Catching her urine among 6 cats is going to be a challenge. I'll read up on it. I have been thinking maybe something more is going on, just didn't want to even think about it. I've seen it mentioned umpteen times, but I haven't read about it. Thanks though. Playing denial here isn't going to help if she's got something going on. :bighug:
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It's done with urine ketone test strips from a human pharmacy. Yes, it's trickier with 6 cats because you have to catch her at it.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
It's done with urine ketone test strips from a human pharmacy. Yes, it's trickier with 6 cats because you have to catch her at it.
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You like how I go from problem to crisis? I'll pick up the strips tomorrow and read up on it tonight. Thanks again.
 
I was lucky catching a sample simply by taking the cat box and covering it with a trash bag. There was a puddle that I could get a sample from.
With more than one cat, you have to lock them in a room by themselves until you get a sample. Since you have several cats, you should have more than 1 cat box.
 
I was having issues with Samba and his shots, and one of the small changes that I made that seemed to help is that after I draw the insulin into the syringe, before I shoot, I hold it under my arm in my armpit like a thermometer to warm it up (with the cap back on over the needle) while I prepare his food.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I wasn't trying to alarm you. It's another valuable testing tool, especially when they seem to be exhibiting unusual behaviour.
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I just read about ketones. They mentioned fruity breath so I just smelled her breath. She really thinks I'm crazy now, but it smells good, not fruity or sweet. Please don't worry about alarming me though. I need to know. I read about the a blood test you can do for ketones instead of a urine test. I wonder if that's as effective as the urine test? Since I'm getting blood anyway, that might be easier if it works as well. I think they said the meter is $29.95 (probably more now). Or I guess I could try to get urine and if it looks like it's going to be an ongoing thing, I could get the ketone testing meter.
 
Glennie said:
I just read about ketones. They mentioned fruity breath so I just smelled her breath. She really thinks I'm crazy now, but it smells good, not fruity or sweet. Please don't worry about alarming me though. I need to know. I read about the a blood test you can do for ketones instead of a urine test. I wonder if that's as effective as the urine test? Since I'm getting blood anyway, that might be easier if it works as well. I think they said the meter is $29.95 (probably more now). Or I guess I could try to get urine and if it looks like it's going to be an ongoing thing, I could get the ketone testing meter.
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You can't rely on breath smell for ketones. Teasel didn't show that sign when he was in DKA. Yes, testing blood for ketones is a good way to do it because they show up there before the urine. The ketone meter strips are very expensive (I think I read something like $2.50 per strip) but it might be worth it if it's done only periodically or you have too many cats using the same litter box.
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
I was lucky catching a sample simply by taking the cat box and covering it with a trash bag. There was a puddle that I could get a sample from.
With more than one cat, you have to lock them in a room by themselves until you get a sample. Since you have several cats, you should have more than 1 cat box.
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Yep, we have 7 cat boxes! And now I am exposed as the crazy cat lady. It wasn't on purpose; it just happened somehow. Some of them are easy to get urine samples on and others not so much. I have never tried with Callie. Maybe she'll surprise me and cooperate.
 
Glennie said:
Thanks, Bobbie. I'll try some other areas as I said above, and we'll see, I guess, and I just added a stop to Walmart for new syringes to my list. I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with ReliOn syringes? I wonder if I should try syringes from Walgreens, although last time I tried them, they didn't have what I needed.

My DD did say it looked like I had the wrong angle a few times, but then even with correcting that, she cried. It felt like the resistance came at the skin level. Sorry for going on and on; just trying to figure this out. Thinking out loud through my fingers. LOL
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I've been using the Relion syringes for about 2 weeks now with no problem so far.
 
Glennie said:
That's a really good idea. I'll give that a try. Thank you! So are you injecting at the hip now or the scruff?
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Sorry I didn't get a notification for this...
I shoot on his shoulder area now. I shaved a little spot so I can see that the needle is in before pushing the insulin. DH still shoots in the scruff.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You can't rely on breath smell for ketones. Teasel didn't show that sign when he was in DKA. Yes, testing blood for ketones is a good way to do it because they show up there before the urine. The ketone meter strips are very expensive (I think I read something like $2.50 per strip) but it might be worth it if it's done only periodically or you have too many cats using the same litter box.
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Oh, I'm sure the breath smell test isn't definitive. That would be too easy! I'll check into stuff better tomorrow. I'm worried because if she has DKA, there is no way we can afford to treat her. The info on here says about $2000 to treat it here in the US, and there is no way we can do it. It breaks my heart! So I'll try to wait till tomorrow to fall apart. She may very well be fine. Scratch that, she just threw up for the 3rd time today. I'll read the symptoms again. I can only imagine how miserable she is feeling. One of the civvies had colitis. Maybe it's that.
 
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Okay, so she just threw up again. I think I've got a bigger problem than her crying about her shot. Her PMPS was 155, and she ate well so I injected .75U. She threw up a bit later, and wanted to eat again so I just fed her and she threw up. How do I keep her BG up tonight? If she can't eat and she goes low, what do I do?
 
StephG said:
Sorry I didn't get a notification for this...
I shoot on his shoulder area now. I shaved a little spot so I can see that the needle is in before pushing the insulin. DH still shoots in the scruff.
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That's okay, thank you. Bigger problem now though, but it was sweet of you to get back to me. And it's sweet of your DH to help you. Sorry that sounded short after you took the time to respond. Callie is vomiting a lot and has me really worried. I need to see the needle go in and where it is before I inject also. :bighug:
 
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