4/23 Tommy +7.5 398,+11 408, PMPS 395 Bladder Infection?

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Lauren&Tommy (GA)

Lauren&Tommy (GA)

Member Since 2010
Yesterday's condo
Good morning all of LL.. ~O) ~O) ~O)
+11~359
Not much really to report other than the 5p's are in place and he looks like he is starting to respond to the new dose. I know only time and patience will tell if we have finally found the right dose.
Another icky day here in the mid west with more thunderstorms to come
I hope the Sun is shining where you are and you and your furbabies are feeling well.
Sending out lots of healing vines to those beans and furbabies that i see aren't doing so well this morning.
I'll be thinking of you all :smile:
Squirrel & Tommy
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372

good morning!

Nice to see a little lower number. I'm thinking that if Tommy doesn't drop today, it might be a good time to start R after +6. It will depend on his number, of course. I won't be home late this afternoon to walk you through it, but you can look back at Gus's earlier threads to find the info on doing an R curve. Essentially you want to test at the R preshot, +1, +2, +3, and if +3 is still dropping, then +4. You will only want to shoot 0.1 units of R the first time, so get out your syringes and practice! Squeeze it out onto a piece of wax paper or the counter so you can be sure there is actually insulin coming out. The picture of what 0.1 units looks like is in the New to the Group sticky.

I should be home before your PMPS to help you interpret the results of the curve. Questions?
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372, +2 399

Libby, to be honest, i don't feel comfortable starting this without you around. I understand you have obligations and can't be around all the time to help us out, but i will wait until you can be here. Reading is one thing, having someone to actually be there is another. I do believe i can do this, but if something should go wrong in the beginning i would really like to have you here. I hope you understand.
I will be practicing with the droplet like you said. I have to go out for a bit today also to get Tommy more Lantus as my Prescription from Canada has yet to arrive.
Thank you for dropping in this morning to check up on us.
I'll keep praying for those lower numbers. :smile:
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372, +2 399, +4 343

Thank you for understanding.
I'm not sure if the +4 is because i gave him a different food after +2 and that's keeping him from dropping as much as he should or he's just being ornery. I should have kept with the same food
this close to a new dose. I went back to FF classic chicken feast to see if we can clear that +4 reading. Off to practice the droplet.
Take care all and a happy Saturday once again.
What number would you consider for Tommy to have to be at for us to try R? and are we waiting for the dreaded bounce to show it's ugly head
or catch it before it get's there. :?: Just curious
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372, +2 399, +4 343

Squirrel: I'd do the same thing and wait for when Libby can be around. New things are scary and it really helps to have someone like Libby walk you through something like this. I hope you will see the R bring Tommy much better numbers.
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372, +2 399, +4 343

I'm not Libby but I know the answer to your question!! Generally, you don't use R unless numbers are above 300. You don't use R to yank high numbers down. You use it to help lower the numbers so the Lantus has something to "grab" on to and can gently lower and/or flatten out the curve. It helps to boost the activity of Lantus vs. replace it.
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372, +2 399, +4 343

Thank you Sienne, Yeah i remember reading about the not yanking down part, i was just curious what number i should be on the look out for. I was thinking maybe i would go ahead and start R tonight if his numbers are high. Any thoughts? I'm a little nervous but I know Tommy is ready to get this started!!
I'm glad you had the answer to my question. Thank you, Thank you :smile: I've spent the last hour or so going over the last few days of Gus's posts again between Bev and Libby and i would really like to see Tommy get some relief from these numbers too so the Lantus can do it's thing. Tommy needs a bit of a boost and I know with the help of Libby and all of you, I can give him that!
Stay tuned LL!!
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy AMPS~372, +2 399, +4 343, +7.5 398

I didn't know what was the right word to put in my subject line but i have a question please. I believe Tommy might have a UTI . I just went to check his numbers and he had peed a rather large amt on a love sac footstool we have. He hasn't peed outside the LB for a few months at least. Happened maybe an hour ago. Libby, if you stop in could you please let me know if it's safe to proceed with R tonight or should we wait until i can get a urine sample to the vet on Monday? This could be one possibility to the numbers remaining where they are?
I won't start R until i hear from you.
Thank you,
Squirrel
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

i don't know the answer but just wanted to send a little support your way. if you decide to go to the vet, make sure they do a culture and don't just decide he has a UTI without being sure. in the meantime, lots of water mixed in food, clean litter box.
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

Any kind of infection can raise numbers and a UTI would be included. Some cats have telltale ways of letting their bean know they have a UTI -- like peeing outside of the box. Just to be sure there's not a blockage, Tommy isn't running to the box multiple times and straining or not being able to pee is he? )FWIW, boy cats are far more prone to plumbing problems.)

One member here would put a piece of white tissue or paper towel beneath the cat to see if there was any blood in the urine.

As for you getting a sample to the vet...not such a good idea. It won't be a sterile sample. The vet needs to do a cytocentesis (a needle is stuck into the bladder in order to get a sterile sample). The vet then does a culture & sensitivity (C & S) in order to see what bacteria grows and then an antibiotic specific to that bacteria can be prescribed.

You can still use R if an infection is driving the numbers. It will still help to bring them down. If you think a UTI is present, please test for ketones.
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

Thanks guys, 2 LB are cleaned at least twice a day, Only 2 cat's that use them. Understand about the sterile sample, I'll make an appt and take him in.
The reason i was going to take one in to them is that i have done that once before with Tommy with no objection from the Vet. That's not something that should (ever) be done? I do understand why! It won't happen again.
Is a culture always protocol when testing for UTI? When Tommy had his first infection a urinalysis was done, Thyroid Panel-T-4, mini profile/cbc/urinalysis while i was there and sent me home with antibiotics. A Urine MIC Culture was done 02/04/11 to pinpoint the culprit but no growth after 24,48 or 72 hrs and Tommy had not been on antibiotics within the safe time frame for the tests. We have tried Clavamox (12/29/10) and Orbax Oral Solution (01/05/11)
Tommy does not strain to pee, but he does pee a lot. He has been peeing a lot since about a month before he was DX.
I tested for ketones a couple of nights ago. Negative.
I will try to get another one tonight. Through reading i did find out that boy kitties are much more prone to those types of issues. Leave it up to a boy to cause problems :lol:
Tommy is very receptive to ketone tests so i will try the paper towel and see what we can see.
My vet did find trace amts of blood in Tommy's urine when they tested.
I will add some water to his food. Thanks Julie, Sienne.
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

punkin has had recurrent bladder infections - usually in the fall (which we all agreed was interesting) - but mostly what i was thinking of re: tommy is when i was looking online today about antibiotics i read an article about many cats getting AB's for UTI's when they don't have an infection.

ok, the miracles of searching your computer history turned up the page. it's by Dr. Lisa Pierson, who's linked here. Here ya go: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia Info is quoted below here. In the text on the webpage there's a link to her info on urinary health for more info: http://www.catinfo.org/urinarytracthealth.php
Let's jump to another topic that involves a significant pet peeve of mine and that is the over-use of antibiotics in cats that are showing urinary tract signs. (e.g. urinating small amounts frequently, blood in the urine, licking their genitals, urinating outside of the litter box due to a litter box aversion which developed secondary to pain, etc.)

Notice that I did not use the abbreviation "UTI" which is so often thrown around erroneously.

Most people know that "UTI" stands for Urinary Tract Infection but so many cats that are showing these UT signs do NOT have an infection yet they often leave the veterinary clinic with antibiotics and no culture and sensitivity to prove that an infection even exists.

It has been shown that when otherwise healthy cats (no kidney disease, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism) that are showing urinary tract signs have their urine cultured, only 1% will have a bladder infection. The other 99% are suffering from sterile cystitis. "Sterile" means that no infection is present. This means that a lot of cats are receiving unnecessary antibiotics!

Therefore, in ~99% of the cases when the abbreviation "UTI" is used, the "I" stands for "inflammation" not "infection".

This abuse of antibiotics leads to more resistant strains of bacteria ("super bugs") being produced which puts all living creatures (humans and animals) at risk. The pharmaceutical companies then need to keep coming up with new ways to fight life-threatening infections caused by these resistant bacterial populations.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

Very true about mistakenly assuming the cat has a UTI. That's how I came to trust my vet. Champ was straining to urinate, taking multiple trips to the LB and only peeing a little bit of bloody urine. I was sure he had a UTI, took him to the vet, and they did a cystocentesis, but couldn't obtain any urine. The vet still gave me antibiotics for him to take, which I had to refill twice. He still had the same symptoms. Took him to his present vet who informed me that he DID NOT have a UTI, but cystitis caused by stress (we had our house for sale with a lot of strangers coming in and out). She gave him an anti-inflammatory which cleared him right up in a matter of days. Champ has had one more episode of the cystitis due to stress (we moved) which cleared up in days with the anti-inflammatory. The symptoms of UTI and cystitis are so similar. You know you have a decent vet when they don't automatically assume UTI.
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

Thank you both for your personal input on the matter. What is my next step then? Do i say something to my vet? suggest that it could be something other than UTI or is that why you are saying do a culture Julie? I certainly don't want Tommy to be taking AB if he doesn't need them. Is there a different test that needs to be run or will the culture give the answers like when i had it done last time? Please, I need to know and i'm finding it harder and harder to find a vet that i feel comfortable with. I want Bev's (Robin Williams) lookalike :smile: I believe she is the one who struck gold with a good new vet.
Patty, how did the vet come to the conclusion that Champ had cystitis and not UTI?
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, UTI Question

Hiya, Squirrel.. no input on UTI, etc .. neither of mine have ever had that.. but I like when you said you would add water to the food, I always add water.. always, always, always.. very important to get that water intake ;-)
 
Re: 4/23 Tommy +4 343, +7.5 398, +11 408 UTI Question

Thanks Nicole, although i have done that periodically, that was Julies suggestion, I can not take the credit for that one :smile: I will try to start doing that regularly. I'm just scared.
Just tested negative for ketones and i was able to put a paper towel under him while he peed, no blood, just a looooooooooooong peeeeeee!!
 
Maybe tomorrow morning we can start with R. We're as ready as we're going to be. Been practicing the infinitesimal amt over and over again.
I know i can do this.. Good night LL.
Special prayers out to those having a difficult time right now with their furbabies.
Hold them tight and love them as you have from the beginning. They can feel that.. :YMHUG:
I BELIEVE A MIRACLE CAN HAPPEN AT ANYTIME!
 
i don't really have a solution to suggest, but if they do a culture and it doesn't turn up any bacteria, then an antibiotic won't help. i think my vet has always just given the antibiotic, no culture, but i didn't know better back then. now i would ask for a culture, and if nothing turned up in the culture, then don't put them on antibiotics. look for a different problem.

actually, i think what dr lisa was saying is that extra water and de-stressing would clear up many of the non-infection problems.

i also can't take credit for the water suggestion - maybe it was you that suggested it to me, nicole! :lol: somebody did - and i'm very glad. i think it's a good thing and punkin accepts it without problem.
 
Squirrel: Gracie had a history of chronic idiopathic interstitial cystitis. She would run to the box ALOT, strain, pee a little with blood in it. Never any infection at all. We eventually found out she had a high accumulation of aluminum in her system causing this and then our vet did an aluminum detox. Aluminum excess can come from over vaccinating but since we don't, her mother probably was and she got it in utero. Anyway, I've not heard of a cat with cystitis or UTI who pees alot MORE. They usually strain to pee and pee small amounts often. If he's peeing more and it started before he was dx, that is a sign of diabetes and it takes a while to resolve....once they start getting into lower, more normal numbers, it typically does.

Hope that helps. Sending Tommy healing vines. Good luck with the R.
 
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