4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 PMPS 355+3=308

Status
Not open for further replies.
tiffmaxee

tiffmaxee

Member Since 2013
:sad: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=117530

YESTERDAY'S #S
AMPS 312 +2=275 +5=189 +6=198
PMPS 261 +3=132 +4=67 +5=49 +6=57 +6.5=62 +7=70 +8=128

So the merry-go-round continues. He did go to 49 so I am supposed to reduce. He bounced which I suspected when he jumped from 70-128. He only had one dose of a short 2 and one dose of a straight 2.0. Do I need to go back to the 1.75, F1.75, or S2.0?

He will fail another reduction. He will never regulate. With numbers like his how will it effect his kidneys? I gave him F1.75.

The posts aren't going through well this morning either. I'm so depressed. At least he is peeing, pooping, and eating. I need to check in to trying B12 to see if he has neuropathy. I've been complaining for probably a year that he can't jump but my vet did nothing. I was thinking arthritis but this makes sense. Maybe he was pre-diabetic for years and his elevated glucose was not due to stress. He never had glucose in his urine though. I said for a few years he peed more than I thought he should but I thought it was possibly from an all wet food diet. He never drank water. His only fructosamine was normal. Oh well, it doesn't matter. What is happening now is what I need to learn to deal with now. :sad:
 
Re: 4/21Max Dose Help AMPS 352

I haven't visited Max's condo in a bit. I'm not sure I understand why the quick dose changes between the F1.75 and 2.0u.

I would probably go with the skinny 2.0u.
 
Re: 4/21Max Dose Help AMPS 352

Actually we went from a skinny 2 to a regular 2. We decided that he had bounced, cleared for a cycle and bounced again. My choice was a skinny 2 or regular 2. After discussion and high numbers I went to the regular 2 last night which of course led to his usual bounce.

It won't matter but I went with a F1.75 which will cause him to have high numbers and the whole merry-go-round will be repeated. I couldn't wait any longer to give him his shot.
 
Re: 4/21Max Dose Help AMPS 352

Actually we went from a skinny 2 to a regular 2. We decided that he had bounced, cleared for a cycle and bounced again. My choice was a skinny 2 or regular 2. After discussion and high numbers I went to the regular 2 last night which of course led to his usual bounce.

It won't matter but I went with a F1.75 which will cause him to have high numbers and the whole merry-go-round will be repeated. I couldn't wait any longer to give him his shot.
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 Reduction Taken

Good luck with the F1.75U dose. I hope he flattens out a bit this time. You may find that using the calipers will make dosing more consistent, and thus the BGs. I was amazed at how much a difference there was between BD syringes.

I've seen lots of cats here who like to dance around a particular dose until they finally get it. It's very frustrating for the beans. :YMHUG: Max will get there. In the mean time it looks like you can stop testing until PMPS. I call these "save a strip" days. :roll:
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 Reduction Taken

Hi Elise.

No advice from, me, just moral support. I know this is so frustrating, and you feel like you're never going to get a handle on it. Hang in there! you're doing a great job. We all feel that way from time to time. Just take a deep breath and enjoy today's pokey break. It will get better! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 Reduction Taken

The board is still being wonky so I don't know if you saw my question last night about the way you feed Max and that possibly influencing his numbers.

Are you able to start feeding Max on a regular timed-schedule?

Also, I see that you are feeding him baby food. How much baby food per day does he get vs. canned cat food? Is it about 1/2 and 1/2? Is it Stage 1 or Stage 2 baby food?

I know that you are concerned about the amount of calories that he is getting and you are worried that he is going to be overweight. I don't think that putting on weight causes pancreatitis. There is however some scientific evidence that what may trigger pancreatitis in a cat is chronic inflammation of the digestive system. The amount of fat that a cat consumes in calories apparently has nothing to do with it, but the extra fat is a problem for humans and dogs. A diet too low in fat can cause the gallbladder to stagnate and the inactivity may allow stones to form in it.

Gall stones are the most common reason for acute pancreatitis, but it cannot cause chronic pancreatitis...

Secondly, a connection between gall stones or cholelithiasis and chronic inflammation of the pancreas might exist, because pathological pancreatograms are more frequent in gallstone patients than in other persons, and chronic pancreatitis is frequently associated with cholangiographic evidence of biliary obstruction.
Click to expand...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579631/

I know the Fancy Feast Classic Chicken is pretty high in protein, which can be hard on the kidneys. The Beech Nut Stage 1 Chicken in Gravy is 55% protein but has very little of the other vitamins that a cat needs to stay healthy.

Have you considered introducing Max to any of the other LC canned cat foods (that aren't fish), other than the FF CC? :roll:

This one has a little bit lower protein, 9% compared to 11% in FF CC, and has a little bit higher fat content, which might be good. It also has a better list of ingredients:

http://drfoxvet.com/products/fresh-mix- ... key-giblet
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 Reduction Taken

Hi Tina. Max only gets a spoonful of the stage l Gerber's ham, beef, or chicken as a chaser to his gel capped med. A jar lasts about 3 days, sometimes 4. He's had chronic pancreatitis for 4+ years and nothing to suggest gall stones has ever come up. He's due for labs soon and it will be interesting to see if the food has caused any new issues. Prior he was eating the sliced ones which are lower protein and phosphorus. Everyone wondered if no grains would help but his problem is not food triggered. It's stress and just bad luck.

As for timing of his meals, he eats before his insulin and if he finishes the food I give him some more at +3-4. If he eats the food he gets a little more at +5-6. Then I feed him before his insulin. I used to put some food out at +8 and he ate it anywhere between then and +12. I stopped doing that since I was told it's best not to give much food between +6-12. He's always been a grazer and it's much better if he eats 4-6 small meals for his pancreatitis. I don't think he's had a full blown attack in several months. He just sometimes doesn't feel as good as others.

I'm thinking he might have nerve pain and will discuss it with my vet when we speak. That should be an easy fix since the pill can be mixed in his food.

I'm going to go work out my frustration in a spin class now. I hope Rocky has cleared the bounce.
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 Reduction Taken

I guess I just don't believe in food not being a trigger, or the cause of many of our beloved pets health problems.. :roll: For instance, we recognize that dry kibble diet in cats can cause diabetes. What's to say that not enough fat, too high of protein, and a lot of fish food would not cause chronic inflammation in the digestive systems of a cat that lead to pancreatitis? :roll: I will always blame food first. I'm not a person to believe in a condition with out a cause.

I just looked up the Artemis food I suggested to you and I am disappointed. They have now added fish to their Turkey and Giblets canned recipe. Fish is CHEAP for pet food companies to add to their pet foods because they use the drudges. The drudges are all of those stale fish parts that barely make the mark of being considered "fresh."

I was irritated to see that Rachel Ray now has her own cat food, of course it is fish flavored!! She's probably going to make a bundle on that. It probably costs her pennies to have it made for her and then slap her label (name) on it.

http://www.2ndchance.info/pancreatitiscat.htm

There is also evidence that stale fish oil can cause inflammation in the digestive system:
Will Pancreatitis Reoccur In My Cat?

Cats seem to be particularly sensitive to chronic inflammation.

Vaccinations that cause no tumors in dogs, cause fibrosarcomas in cats. (ref) Perplexing and unexplained chronic mouth inflammations are unique to cats. Inflammatory thyroiditis leading to hyperthyroidism is overly common in cats.

The mechanism for all of this is probably the release of inflammatory cytokines. (ref) There is a statistical connection between eating canned, fish-flavored cat foods and hyperthyroidism. (ref 1, ref 2 )

When I worked for SeaWord, I became quit familiar with the wholesale pet food fish industry. Fresh fish does not end up in the can or kibble you feed your cat. What does end up in the can and kibble are fish products that sat too long on the dock or stored, processed fish meal and fish-plant waste. (Ref) That’s why a 5.5 oz can of Friskies Ocean Whitefish cat food will costs you $0.44; but 5.5 oz of whiting fillets costs $3.78

Oxidative stress has also been associated with eating rancid fish oils. (ref) I suspect that many of the cats that develop pancreatitis and other triad diseases have just not been eating a healthy diet.

Give vitamin E and antioxidants to counteract peroxides in fish. -Ron Hines, DVM PhD
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 Reduction Taken

Lots of hugs to you, Elise, and lots of prayers for both you and Max! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

I know you're tired, overwhelmed, frustrated....you name it. Just take one day at a time......and take time to take care of you!

Shelly
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 PMPS 355

Well, an all stinky pink day.

Thanks for the moral support Tricia, Wendy, and Shelly. It's hard to take a step forward and then go backwards every time. I'm also worried that he isn't feeling well. I wish he could talk. All I know is he hasn't even come to me for cuddles in a couple of weeks now. If he would act like himself, I wouldn't feel as bad.

Tina, Max rarely gets fish, only once in a while as a treat. Many cats on the pancreatitis list have allergies to fish. The second most common protein allergy is to chicken. Max is a picky eater. I was lucky he took to the classics because he wouldn't eat them in the past. I've been searching for the perfect food for him ever since he blocked and I nearly lost him when the vet pierced his bladder. With him being 16 1/2 I worry about the protein too but if food doesn't have carbs it has more protein. The ff chicken contains salmon in it too but pretty low on the list. He gets the turkey, liver and chicken, and chicken with maybe a salmon every 2-3 weeks if his appetite is off.

The only good news for Max is he likely will only get one more poke tonight.

How long do I stay with the F1.75 before going back to the S2.0 or full 2.0 this time?
 
Re: 4/21Max AMPS 352 +3=372+6=334 PMPS 355

I'm sorry that Max has not been acting himself and has been hiding from you.. it does sound like he might not be feeling well, or might be having an 'episode.' Well, in a few or your condos you have mentioned that he has been trying to barf. Has he managed to barf up anything yet?

I can't say that this is what's happening with Max, but when my pancreatic kitty Jomo wouldn't eat well I also fed her cat foods with fish in them to coax her to eat. Her symptoms always got worse. Yes, Jomo ate the food, but then she felt worse a while later and would throw it up. I look back now and wonder if I was making her more sick and nauseous. :cry:

I'm kind of a lot worried about you and Max because Rachel's Chyna also lost her appy and started hiding from Rachel.. When Rachel took Chyna to the vet it turned out that Chyna was very sick and then she passed away that day...

I *think* you said Max won't eat enough cat food because he's a picky eater....How often lately have you been giving Max the medicine that you have for him to help him with his nauseous feelings?

I don't mean to depress you Elise, but have you considered taking Max to the vet pretty soon to see if the vet can figure out why Max doesn't want to eat? His hiding from you doesn't sound normal or like a positive development. I'm sorry that you're both having to go through this right now. :sad: Maybe the vet can help give some advice or guidance. :YMHUG:
 
Tina, he's eating and hasn't lost any weight. He just has some day s where his appetite is a little off. I've been giving him food later at night and chicken if he wants it in teh wee hours of the morning and he hasn't been dry heaving again. He is eating as I type this.When he has an episode he really becomes inappetent requiring ondansetron and sometimes cyproheptadine. He hasn't been trying to vomit this week. I do think he might have neuropathy though. I need to check in to getting zobaline. Where do you buy it? I think I'll give my vet a call tomorrow and ask if it's okay to try it.
 
Time for an attitude adjustment :-D :-D

A few things to remember:
--- Max is not Chyna
---the best advice I ever got was the hardest to follow and that is to not chase numbers; follow the protocol.
---don't let the numbers rule your life. Max is a sweet living, breathing soul and insulin is a hormone. Those are two things that you can't control. Do the best you can to help max with his diabetes but you can't control it. There are too many variables including dose inconsistencies, absorption issues, weather, scary things, etc.
---study SSs and learn how to see the difference between a bounce, a failed reduction, or not enough insulin on other SSs. Then see if you see those patterns on Max's. Be sure you can tell his onset, nadir, and duration.
---learn how to manage his curve with food the best you can. Try to find the patterns of when he drops and feed to slow them down or flatten them out.
---realize it's an ever changing situation. What worked three weeks ago, may not work now.

And did I say don't let the numbers rule your life? I promise...I know what it's like...we did it for a very long time. We've been at this 3.5 years and Gracie still bounces and we still have to go up and down around a dose. Same thing for Sienne with Gabby. Now, we say "she's bouncing...time to get out and have fun or (if it's at night) sleep".

Just do the best you can, love on him, find joy in every day. Don't let it get to you. :-D :-D :-D

One thing Tina mentioned on your condo last night was that I said it was ok to feed at +10.5. That advice was for Rocky only for that cycle only because he was coming down and I was hoping he'd surf. He didn't. ;-) generally, you do not sent to feed past nadir. If he's hungry, just a LC snack like boiled chicken breast can work.
 
I buy Zobaline online from the maker. It's made specifically for diabetic cats so it has no sugar in it whatsoever:

http://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_d ... blets.html

You can also buy it on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/ZobalineTM-Diabet ... B008G3LI2M

Some people say they see no improvement in their cats when they've fed their cat Zobaline. I think it probably depends on the condition of the cat's pancreas and digestive system, if they can utilize the oral form. I definitely think it's worth a try though.

It is tasteless. I've eaten one or two of them. They crush into a very fine powder and are super-duper small. I mix one into Rocky's AMPS and then another one into his PMPS meal although the maker says (1) 3mg pill is enough per day. I know that Rocky will pee out of his system any amount of it that he cannot use.

You can also buy injectable vitamin B12 online. I think most vets believe that this forms works better. I know that it's unpleasant and stings the cat at the injection site when it goes into his body. If it is Neuropathy it is methylcobalamin that Max needs.

The only injectable vitamin B12 that I have heard of is cyanocobalamin. "Cyno" means that it has the poison cyanide in it. This form of vitamin B12 is not natural and not found in nature:

http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/ind ... in?blog=27
 
I gave the injectable B12 to Tiffany. It doesn't sting. It's the B complex that stings. She never flinched but sure did with cerenia. I gave her B complex in pill form mixed in food.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top