? 4/21 Yum AMPS always red or black; BIG BOUNCE TODAY

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MJW

MJW

Member Since 2017
Yum's AMPS numbers are almost always red or black.
This means what?

a. She is going really low overnight and bouncing. She has become quite cagey about me sneaking up on her in the middle of the night for a blood test. Probably won't happen. She is deeply suspicious of unusual behavior. Treats are refused.

b. Her bg just rises at night ECID. Is this a possibility? I don't think she grazes on her food as often at night. She is less active. Maybe she eats more all at once before going to sleep.

I increased her dose this morning since I have no evidence that she is going blue overnight. I hope that was the right decision.

I have an earlier post out there today with a "glucose toxicity" title where I ask questions about how to prevent the damage that is happening to her during our frustratingly slow march to blues and greens.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...icity-insulin-resistance-antioxidants.176712/
 
If you can monitor in my opinion that was a good call to up the dose. Could she have another health issue? Infection , teeth or ?
Have you tried to cradle over the top of her and get a test that way? Some place them in a towel burrito style....
With the free feeding maybe she is eating before you test her. We say withhold food two hours before the AMPS & PMPS that way the food isn't influencing the numbers. Is there any way you could feed her meals without free feeding? I feed Fritz mini meals 4-5 times. Just as long as your feeding the same amount you would have free fed.
She most likely has another health issue or needs more insulin. You don't want glucose toxicity...
Hopefully others will have some ideas!
 
Looking at the ss I see a number of shots given without testing first - what we refer to as "shooting blind". Safety first - getting an AMPS and PMPS before every shot is the best practice. Insulin is powerful. Shooting blind is risky - like Russian roulette.
MJW said:
Yum's AMPS numbers are almost always red or black.
This means what?
Click to expand...
When I see a black AMPS the first thing I do is look to the previous cycle for lows. Many kitties run lowest on the overnights. Data is needed for the PM+5 through PM+11 range. Without it you are missing more than 1/4 of the picture. Try and sprinkle a few tests in that range...a PM+6 one night, a PM+10 another night etc. so that when you step back an look at the ss there are not any wide open white areas with no data.

MJW said:
She has become quite cagey about me sneaking up on her in the middle of the night for a blood test. Probably won't happen. She is deeply suspicious of unusual behavior. Treats are refused.
Click to expand...
Keep trying. Persistence and perseverance will prevail.

MJW said:
I have an earlier post out there today with a "glucose toxicity" title where I ask questions about how to prevent the damage that is happening to her during our frustratingly slow march to blues and greens.
Click to expand...
Although there are kitties who after a change in diet head right into remission, for the most part achieving regulation is a marathon, not a sprint. So along with persistence and perseverance, a good deal of patience is required.

Hang in there and hang in here.
 
Her WBC is often very slightly elevated. We put her on antibiotics briefly twice (convenia, zeniquin). They might have helped, but we can't find an infection site. It's been 2 weeks since I had her at the vet. I will take her in next week for more blood work. She had an exploratory ultrasound about 3 weeks ago. Looked normal. No smoking gun.
Since her numbers are coming down, I thought we had put the infection question behind us. Maybe not? Maybe we need to see a specialist?

I can always test her if I can catch her. I just can't always catch her. And if there is a chase, our relationship is damaged for days.

She probably eats within an hour of all her tests. Her food is low carb. She is not a fast eater. She is a frequent eater during the day. Not sure about overnight. I have 3 cats.

Thanks.
 
As mentioned befor you don't have PMPS on your SS and his numbers at + 11 weren't that high with the previous dose , so I would suggest that you monitor her closely.

Her AM today was 518 and by +4 she is 285 that's a big drop and in only a few hours ( even if is not a blue or green) so she may bounce tonight, which means she will be high again as a result of the lower numbers, a bounce takes a few cycles to clear so be patient. This may have happened some previous days.
 
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Looking at the ss I see a number of shots given without testing first - what we refer to as "shooting blind". Safety first - getting an AMPS and PMPS before every shot is the best practice. Insulin is powerful. Shooting blind is risky - like Russian roulette.

When I see a black AMPS the first thing I do is look to the previous cycle for lows. Many kitties run lowest on the overnights. Data is needed for the PM+5 through PM+11 range. Without it you are missing more than 1/4 of the picture. Try and sprinkle a few tests in that range...a PM+6 one night, a PM+10 another night etc. so that when you step back an look at the ss there are not any wide open white areas with no data.

Keep trying. Persistence and perseverance will prevail.

Although there are kitties who after a change in diet head right into remission, for the most part achieving regulation is a marathon, not a sprint. So along with persistence and perseverance, a good deal of patience is required.

Hang in there and hang in here.
Click to expand...
I know it's Russian roulette to skip the AMPS, although maybe not so much yet with such high numbers. It's a tough choice. Do I do a wild chase for a test and jeopardize delivering the insulin shot? I grabbed her this morning as she was supervising my preparation of her meal. Yesterday she was careful to not supervise me too closely. She is an extremely intelligent and focused ex-feral cat. Good thing I love her.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
As mentioned befor you don't have PMPS on your SS and his numbers at + 11 weren't that high with the previous dose , so I would suggest that you monitor her closely.

Her AM today was 518 and by +4 she is 285 that's a big drop and in only a few hours ( even if is not a blue or green) so she may bounce tonight, which means she will be high again as a result of the lower numbers, a bounce takes a few cycles to clear so be patient. This may have happened some previous days.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should slow down and hold the doses for longer or admit SLGS. I am just so afraid she has had high numbers for too long.
 
MJW said:
She is an extremely intelligent and focused ex-feral cat. Good thing I love her.
Click to expand...
You are an angel to take her in. That explains everything!!!!!
Boy lady you have your work cut out with her. Lots of trial and error to find out what will work.
Is there anyone else that can help you with her? My DH has to help me from time to time.
Once your close to her does she trust you enough to let you cradle over the top of her?
 
Data is our best friend when it comes to managing the FD.
You don't want to leave her in those high numbers as glucose toxicity.
Hopefully you can get her and test more she could just need more insulin but we need data.
Your doing a great job this FD isn't easy.
 
DebG said:
You are an angel to take her in. That explains everything!!!!!
Boy lady you have your work cut out with her. Lots of trial and error to find out what will work.
Is there anyone else that can help you with her? My DH has to help me from time to time.
Once your close to her does she trust you enough to let you cradle over the top of her?
Click to expand...
Yes, I cradle over her and she purrs. She sometimes shakes her ears but she never tries to get away. I test her easily when she comes to me for affection---it's just those visits don't always align with the TR schedule.
 
May i suggest that you might want to explore for a better treat..... if the one she has isn't important to her......
then you need to find one that is.
I often hear that "my cat doesn't care about this treat..." from caretakers.

the most common one is freeze dried chicken. My Shadow had no interest in chicken....
but when I tried turkey, that got her attention. You would think they are basically the same, but turkey has a higher fat ratio.
But her real passion was shrimp - freeze dried or raw.
There are a lot of different protein only treats out there now.... and if you find one that one of us has..... just ask...
we can send a sample before you buy.

I have freeze dried chicken hearts in my fridge. I do have to crumble them up as they are kind of on the tough side but my dog quivers for them.
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
May i suggest that you might want to explore for a better treat..... if the one she has isn't important to her......
then you need to find one that is.
I often hear that "my cat doesn't care about this treat..." from caretakers.

the most common one is freeze dried chicken. My Shadow had no interest in chicken....
but when I tried turkey, that got her attention. You would think they are basically the same, but turkey has a higher fat ratio.
But her real passion was shrimp - freeze dried or raw.
There are a lot of different protein only treats out there now.... and if you find one that one of us has..... just ask...
we can send a sample before you buy.

I have freeze dried chicken hearts in my fridge. I do have to crumble them up as they are kind of on the tough side but my dog quivers for them.
Click to expand...
Her favorite cheese is out of stock. Still, that was never enough to even convince her to step on a scale for a simple weigh-in. Yum would rather be in control than be happy. It's who she is. I am careful now to follow each test with a sardine treat, gladly accepted. I will search for other treats, but I'm sure she can resist them all if she suspects they are a trap. Where do you buy freeze dried chicken and shrimp and turkey?
 
MJW said:
Where do you buy freeze dried chicken and shrimp and turkey?
Click to expand...
You can buy bags of these at pet food stores. One brand is Pure Bites. I buy Orijen brand freeze dried meat treats in the "original" flavour (mostly chicken and turkey) and "wild boar".
 
DebG said:
If you can monitor in my opinion that was a good call to up the dose. Could she have another health issue? Infection , teeth or ?
Have you tried to cradle over the top of her and get a test that way? Some place them in a towel burrito style....
With the free feeding maybe she is eating before you test her. We say withhold food two hours before the AMPS & PMPS that way the food isn't influencing the numbers. Is there any way you could feed her meals without free feeding? I feed Fritz mini meals 4-5 times. Just as long as your feeding the same amount you would have free fed.
She most likely has another health issue or needs more insulin. You don't want glucose toxicity...
Hopefully others will have some ideas!
Click to expand...
Actually, I haven't seen the instructions about food timing and bg test times. Withhold food 2 hours before AMPS and PMPS? In the intro sticky there is a link to manipulating curves with food, but no discussion of a 2 hour rule. I have not run an experiment to determine the relationship between her nibbling and her numbers. I was hoping it all just averaged out.
 
The two hour before AMPS & PMPS is so that the food doesn't effect the number. I learned to use the food to an advantage to help control his .
Example say his AMPS is 98 I give a bit more food to help raise the number if his number is high I give a bit less. I then save the food he could have had and use it somewhere else in his cycle.
I buy a lot of F
MJW said:
Where do you buy freeze dried chicken and shrimp and turkey
Click to expand...
Fritz freeze dried treats from Chewy.com he likes the Whole Life Brand and Life essentials chicken, turkey, salmon cod
 
MJW said:
Actually, I haven't seen the instructions about food timing and bg test times. Withhold food 2 hours before AMPS and PMPS? In the intro sticky there is a link to manipulating curves with food, but no discussion of a 2 hour rule. I have not run an experiment to determine the relationship between her nibbling and her numbers. I was hoping it all just averaged out.
Click to expand...

Food is always going to influence the numbers, and during the day is ok ( she needs to eat ) and if she likes to just eat a few bites every now and then is ok sometimes even better ( depends on the kitty) as long as is Low carb food, it won't harm her but when she eats her numbers will go up a little so the two hours is just to make sure that the number you are getting is her real number and not high because of food that could mislead you to think her BG is higher and a think is ok to shoot when it may be dangerous or if that's your only test during the day that she needs a bigger dose.

If she eats before the shooting, it has happened to me a few times with Babu, since I'm out at work during the day, and he is a real manipulator so my sister that sometimes keeps an eye on him can't resist him, just keep in mind that her real number may be a little bit lower but is better to hold the food .

A plus is since they get hungry, food after testing and shooting is a treat which always helps ;).
 
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