4/20 Gus ???? Lantus on 4/21

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bev5477

Member Since 2011
Gus seems to like 4.5U. But, I had greater hopes for the +3# . I'm hoping he'll drop at +6. To care for a kitty with FD is really a huge act of devotion and love. To see him jump up on the counters (not alowed) once again is a sight for sore eyes. He's doing very well and we owe it all to the help here. Gloomy day in Ct. More rain coming. Not looking good for the weekend. But you don't have to shovel rain :lol: . Have a great day LL.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +3=375

Hi guys ... wow gus! Last time I was in your condo your numbers were sky high .. what an improvement .. I'm so glad to read that gus is feeling better and even getting up on counters! I hope the nice numbers continue, try not to focus to much on that +3, it is just one spot check after all :-D Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +3=375

Oh Wow!!! :-D How awesome is Gus doing or what!! How nice to see to see that yellow, and a low yellow at that! I know you must be very relieved. I sure hope he stays no higher than the pinks and keeps dipping his toes in the yellow so he realizes how nice it is down there. :-D :-D
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Looks like this is the bounce I expected. Libby, should we do the R now?
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Sorry about the bounce, Bev. Please wait for Libby, she is at work so I'm not sure when she will be able to check in with you.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

I was afraid of that. Don't worry, I won't do anything without someone right here, helping me. It's not as if this will be his last bounce :roll:
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Bev, I do know that you need to shoot R at a certain point in the cycle anyway, so even if she were here, it might not be the right timing anyway.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Hi Bev, I see that your Lantus is 37 days old. Many people get more than the manufacturer-specified 28 days, but others find that it works best to start a new pen around 28 days. Do you keep it in the 'fridge?
In any event, I'm sorry to see the bounce after such a nice AMPS. By the way, you didn't give a fur shot this morning, did you?
Good luck with R if you and Libby decide to try it.

Ella

Hey Gus, party tonight for Choco. Are you going? I can pick you up later on my way down to Atlanta.
Rusty
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

I agree with Laurie. I think waiting until you've had a chance to talk through the steps with Libby and have her watching your back will help -- a lot. R is powerful stuff and can be a handful to work with if you aren't careful. We're all about you're becoming adept and knowledgeable and keeping Gus safe.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Hi Bev. Leave it to Gus to bounce off of yellow. :roll: But we can deal with this.

What + hour is it now, about +9? If so, how about giving him 0.1 units of R now? If it is currently +10 or later, let's wait until PMPS.

Here's what you do:
test and give 0.1u of R
test 1 hour after giving R (we'll call that +1R)
test at +2R
test at +3R - this will be your PMPS also, if you're giving the R dose at +9. If +3 is higher than +2, you don't need to test at +4R. If +3 is lower than +2, then you do need to test again at +4.

It's a little confusing starting at +9, but if he's at 600 now it is more than safe.

I'll check back in with you after work to see the results. 0.1 units may not do anything (then again, it might), but we have to start with the lowest possible dose so we'll know for a fact whether it works.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

No fur shot. Lantus is kept in the fridge other than to draw up. I believe that the Lantus is still good judging by Gus' reaction to it. He starts his 4th cycle with great #s and then immediately follows with a big bounce. This is a familiar pattern with Gus. I know that insulin is delicate and can become contaminated easily but if the solution is perfectly clear and a dose yields expected results, why would it be suspect? Does it lose its effectiveness over time? It's not a topic on which I'm clear.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

It's a;little past +9, so I'll test and shoot .1R now. I'll follow your instructions and post each result here. :shock: OMG!
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Very excited for you & Gus.. anxious to see the results.. you are in amazing hands with Libby as your lead ;-)
Good Luck!!
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R+1=Hi

I guess I didn't draw up/deliver the dose correctly.or he would have lowered his #s. Right?
 
Re: 4/20 Gus AMPS 233 +6=573 +8=HI ??R

Libby and Lucy said:
0.1 units may not do anything (then again, it might), but we have to start with the lowest possible dose so we'll know for a fact whether it works.
See what Libby said to you earlier? Doubt you did anything incorrectly.. just might need more but safety first.. start low.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R+1=Hi R+2=Hi

I remember feeling exactly like this when I first started giving Gus his Lantus. Just very anxious and hopeful with each BG. Things I've learned tell me that there are quite a number of factors that could result in a +R HI. The actual administration is just one possibility.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R+1=Hi

Not necessarily, Bev. From what I understand Libby to be saying is that the starting dose may not be enough, but you have to start there because the stuff is so powerful. Better to shoot .1u and know it doesn't work than to learn the hard way that .25 was too much, kwim?

And yes, Lantus can degrade over time without showing visible signs of doing so. My experience has been that when it begins doing so it starts acting erratically... it doesn't all poop out at once, but rather once dose will be fine, but then the next will have nothing, resulting in numbers all over the place.

Very excited to see how this works for Gus!!
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R+1=Hi R+2=Hi

Very good info. When I bought the R a couple days ago, I re-filled the Lantus. So on good advice, out goes the old stuff. Why chance it? Absolutely about the dose. Slow and safe.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R+1=Hi R+2=Hi

Hi Bev!! Anxious stuff, this. I'm going to be right here watching this unfold for as long as you're posting. I'm hoping this helps Gus out! nailbite_smile
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R+1=Hi R+2=Hi

Also, just for reference - Lantus is pretty fragile so make sure you store it somewhere other than the door of your fridge!

Hope the R helps with these sky bounces Gus likes to pull!
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R1,R2 Both HI (R3 ???)

Libby, If Gus is still HI at R+3 (PMPS), can I feed him? Does he get his Lantus as usual, since the R won't be bringing him down at this point.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R1,R2 Both HI (R3 ???)

Are you up for another round of hourly tests for the next few hours?

First, yes, test/feed/shoot Lantus as usual at PMPS.

If he is still HI, we can do another R shot if you're up for more testing.

I'm writing a longer post with more info, but wanted to go ahead and send this one first. Be right back with more.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R1,R2 Both HI (R3 ???)

ps - you won't always have to test every hour when you give R. Right now we're just trying to collect data on how he does with it (which would be easier if there were actual numbers instead of just HI!). Once you know his response you'll be able to use it without so much testing.

Essentially what we are trying to do is find Gus's onset, nadir, and duration for the R. Once you get to doses that do more for him, you have to be very careful to not give R at a time in the cycle when the nadirs for R and Lantus might overlap, or when both insulins are working hard at the same time. If you have R pulling him down at the same time the Lantus joins in and starts pulling down even harder, then you can get into a situation where it is hard to control the drop. Until we have more data, you don't want to give any R between about +2 and +7 in your Lantus cycle. Don't give R within 4 hours of the last time you shot it. That means that you will mostly use it at PS and +7 or +8. You also don't want to give R at a time when a bounce might be clearing. For right now, I would say that we're safe to use R in the first 2 (maybe 3) cycles of a bounce, but after that we'll want to back off and see if the Lantus takes over. We'll be able to refine those guidelines as we go along.

Just for perspective, our goal is not really to give enough R to bring his number down to a better range. Making him drop too fast or too far would just set up another round of even harder bouncing. He is still going to bounce, but we're trying to keep him from bouncing as high. With Jazzy, when I hae used R my purpose is to try to hold her flat at a time when her numbers would otherwise go to the moon.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R1,R2 Both HI (R3 ???)

Since this is the 2nd cycle in his bounce, we're still safe using R. Do you think he'd benefit from another round? Right now, it is PS+.25. I'll do whatever is best for Gus.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus R1,R2 Both HI (R3 ???)

If he is still HI, then I would give his regular Lantus dose if you haven't already, and 0.25 units of R (separate syringes, so two separate shots). Then get a +1. Normally it is not ok to give another R shot only 3.5 hours after the first one, but since he is that high and since his bounce has just started he'll be fine.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583

Come on, Gus...keep it going sweetie.

I just had a pity party with myself in Champ's condo. Then I come over here and see how brave you are and I seriously wonder how you do it. Really makes me want to smack myself upside the head!! ;-) Seriously, it's not often I wish I were married, but this is one of those times. It would be nice to have someone else here to worry so I didn't have to do it all by myself. I really admire how well you're handling this. You should be proud of yourself :-D :-D

And Libby is a godsend :lol:
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483

I am soooo sorry. I washed the bathroom floor ( I clean when I'm nervous) and totally forgot to postt 2R HI 3R 483.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483

Bev: you are doing so fantastic and I'm so proud of you!!! Look at Gus coming down now!!! I hope this helps him out and you got the best "R" person helping you on it. Great job.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483

Libby, I've been reading over some R guidelines. I think that because 3R was less than 2R, I should do a 4R. Is that right? In this last R trial, can the 2 HI counts be probably low 600s because 583 isn't that big of a shift. Is a +5 ever done on a cat who may have an extremely slow metabolism or is it the actual action of R where it's out of the system in 4hours? I'll do a 4R unless I hear from you. No more distractions.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483 4R=511

He still is bouncing but its not in the 600s! That's an improvement.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483 4R=511

Gus has actual numbers!! How awesome is that?!! :-D

I wish I cleaned when I'm nervous...my house would be sparkling by now. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483 4R=511

Hi bev - just wanted to pop in and say how great this all is. You're doing fantastic. Go Gus!! I hope the R works for him.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483 4R=511

sorry, I fell asleep.

Cool! What dose of R did he get tonight? Because it looks like that dose dropped him a little more than 100 points. For now I think that is enough (I'll study his SS more tomorrow). If he's 500+ in the morning, it would be ok to give the same dose at AMPS tomorrow.
 
Re: 4/20 Gus +1R=583 2R=HI 3R=483 4R=511

Sleep is good. Gus got .25R tonight. I'll give him .25R tomorrow AM if >500. Does he get Lantus then too?
 
wait for Libby, but i'm pretty sure she said early that you are adding the R to the Lantus, didn't she?

good job on managing things today! well done!
 
Bev, I looked at Jazzy's SS and it looks like Libby gives the R along with the Lantus.

So how much gray hair did you get today?? Whew, you made it through with flying colors!!
 
yes, Lantus and R in the morning.

Since he got 0.25 tonight, how about this as a rough draft of an R scale?
0.25 units of R if over 500
0.10 units of R if 450-500

I think this is very conservative, but should be ok as a starting point. Feel free to make suggestions or adjustments, or to skip it altogether if it doesn't feel right to give it in the morning. I won't be around when you shoot in the morning.

I would do an R curve (testing at +1, +2, +3) again tomorrow if you can. Hopefully he won't be quite so high and we can collect some more real numbers.

When he was bouncing on 4/15 and 4/16, it looks like the bounce was starting to clear out on its own on the 3rd cycle (the PM cycle on 4/16 he dropped from 600 to 412 on his own) so I'm comfortable suggesting R if he is high in tomorrow morning's cycle and if you are able to test, but not in the evening cycle tomorrow because I think there is a chance the bounce will clear tomorrow evening and we don't want to add R on top of that.
 
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