4/20 Dave SLGS PMPS 338, +6 43, +8 77, +11 151, AMPS 204 - Dosing advice for newbie

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panda28

panda28

Member Since 2017
Hi, Jacqui here asking about something that happened with Dave that's left me clueless and scared. At his 7pm check, his glucose was 18.8 (340), and I gave him his normal dose of 1.25u. He seemed incredibly hungry almost straight after. When I tested him at 1am, it had dropped to 2.4 (43). I immediately retested him to see if it was the strips, and got the same response. What on earth happened? I'm 99% sure that I measured his insulin dose right, and the amount that was injected seemed no more than usual (according to my Dad, who did it tonight). He's partway through changing his food - could that have something to do with it? The method we used to inject him was different from normal , and involved coming in from above, instead of at a 90 degree angle (into his side). He seemed to be a bit hurt afterwards. Also, I had problems with his midday test, and it took a lot of pricks, which might have stressed him out. I also pricked his other ear for the first time.

This has only just happened, and I'll retest him in ten minutes to see if he's rising, and probably stay up with him all night. I'll update with anything else.

Update: For the first time in 2 weeks, he's drinking a massive amount of water.
 
Hi Jacqui,

You say changing his food - do you mean from a dry to a wet? Or from higher carb to lower carb? I can tell you, when you do these switches you really to need to check! Like more than normal, food can be a very big factor in BG. I am not sure what protocol you are on but I would say he has earned a reduction in dose.

That said, you need to watch him closely like you are doing. Do you have any MC (mid carb) or HC (high carb) food around. Anything with a gravy? I would give him a tsp of that and test again in 20 mins. You need to see him rising for about an hour to know he is clearing the low number.
 
Hi, I am very new to advice and hope that someone else will weigh in.
BUT
your cat earned a reduction by 0.25U. So lower the dose for next cycle.
Test often - and feed if he falls.
What carb % do you feed?
What is his current BG? It is not in the SS.
 
panda28 said:
Hi, Jacqui here asking about something that happened with Dave that's left me clueless and scared. At his 7pm check, his glucose was 18.8 (340), and I gave him his normal dose of 1.25u. He seemed incredibly hungry almost straight after. When I tested him at 1am, it had dropped to 2.4 (43). I immediately retested him to see if it was the strips, and got the same response. What on earth happened? I'm 99% sure that I measured his insulin dose right, and the amount that was injected seemed no more than usual (according to my Dad, who did it tonight). He's partway through changing his food - could that have something to do with it? The method we used to inject him was different from normal , and involved coming in from above, instead of at a 90 degree angle (into his side). He seemed to be a bit hurt afterwards. Also, I had problems with his midday test, and it took a lot of pricks, which might have stressed him out. I also pricked his other ear for the first time.

This has only just happened, and I'll retest him in ten minutes to see if he's rising, and probably stay up with him all night. I'll update with anything else.

Update: For the first time in 2 weeks, he's drinking a massive amount of water.
Click to expand...

Yes, this can happen, especially if there's a switch to low carb wet food going on at this dose. It's scary and the thing to do is immediately give him a little (a teaspoon or two)high carb food (gravy/sauce type) and retest in 20 minutes or so. If he's still low, give a bit more (1 -2 tsp) HC food, heavy on the gravy, wait 20 minutes and retest. You'll want to repeat this until his BG seems to be up above 50 and holding. At that point, give no food, wait 20 minutes and retest. Once he's up to a safe range (above 50 on your meter) and holding his BG without gravy food, reduce your testing to hourly intervals for a couple of readings.

Going forward, the SLGS method calls for a dose reduction to 1 u, held for a week, and then a full curve done at the end of that week. If he drops to 50 or below before the week is up you'd reduce again by 0.25 u. Extra testing while the food change is going on is essential.
 
Post here right away every time you test and tell us what you fed just before that test. Put all this info in the right hand notes section of your SS for future reference.

I'll be home for another hour or so. I strongly suggest you add the red 911 to your thread title to get immediate attention from other helpers. It's in the list of icons at the left end of the thread title bar. Once things are under control you can remove the 911.
 
Thanks for your quick responses. He's changing from Royal Canin Diabetic Wet (which I couldn't find the carb content of, but the American version was around 13%) to a new wet food with a carb content of 3%. I've been switching slowly, and at current time the new food is only making up 1/4 of his total food. The last time he was fed was 6 hours ago, just after the test of 18.8, and before his insulin. He gets insulin twice a day, and is tested four times, every six hours. I'm giving him some gravy cat food, but I don't know if it's high carb or not.
We're not currently following any protocol - after overdosing him in the first week (i.e. 3.5u), the advice I got was to consistently dose him 1.25u for one week, before doing a curve, and dosing according to whatever protocol I do - probably SLGS. From the rest of the week - i.e. 3 more days - I'll give him 1u instead of 1.25. Thanks again, I'm just going to do a test, and I'll share the results.
 
panda28 said:
Thanks for your quick responses. He's changing from Royal Canin Diabetic Wet (which I couldn't find the carb content of, but the American version was around 13%) to a new wet food with a carb content of 3%. I've been switching slowly, and at current time the new food is only making up 1/4 of his total food. The last time he was fed was 6 hours ago, just after the test of 18.8, and before his insulin. He gets insulin twice a day, and is tested four times, every six hours. I'm giving him some gravy cat food, but I don't know if it's high carb or not.
We're not currently following any protocol - after overdosing him in the first week (i.e. 3.5u), the advice I got was to consistently dose him 1.25u for one week, before doing a curve, and dosing according to whatever protocol I do - probably SLGS. From the rest of the week - i.e. 3 more days - I'll give him 1u instead of 1.25. Thanks again, I'm just going to do a test, and I'll share the results.
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Most gravy foods are higher in carbs. I know you're not following any FDMB protocol yet. I gave you the next steps as per the SLGS method so you'd have an idea of how to proceed.
 
panda28 said:
Okay, I just did the first test, 20 minutes after the 43. Between then, he ate his normal meal, 55g of Royal Canin, and 20g of Wellness. The result was 4.2 (75). I'll keep testing him and updating.
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Whew! No more food, test again in 20 - 30 minutes and post here. No need for the red 911 but I think the blue question mark icon should go on your thread title.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You've got a lot of experience with Ducia.
Click to expand...
TY!
I see that Jacqui and Dave are in Australia. What brands MC/HC gravy food might be available over there to recommend? DO you know anyone on the board from Australia with local market knowledge? I also think that a ketones testing is due.
 
It looks like I need to do some research and buy some high carb food for the future. I have about six different brands in the cupboard, and I'm pretty sure all of them are low-carb.
 
Jacqui, you did well feeding Dave right after his 43 reading. Just remember to lower his dose for the next cycle. To how low exactly – I’ll leave for someone else to advice. I am sure that someone will pop in later on. Please stay logged in. Lowering the dosage also depends on the method or protocol that you follow.

Would that be possible for you to update the Spread Sheet (SS)? It would be very helpful to know where Dave is in his cycle. I also list al of the food that I gave in the Remark section of the SS – it’s easy to see it all at a glimpse.

People use different sites and technic to inject. As long as the insulin got into him it is not very important how (me think). You can work on your technic later on. There are plenty tutorials on this board.

The idea is to keep Dave in safe number such 75 and 74 that you got the last time. Well done you!:bighug:

I am new myself but I will stay with you here and wait until someone with good experience show up.

I am sorry but you need to stay up for a while longer.:)
 
panda28 said:
It looks like I need to do some research and buy some high carb food for the future. I have about six different brands in the cupboard, and I'm pretty sure all of them are low-carb.
Click to expand...
I stock up on Fancy Feast (FF) 13% - 16%. I use only gravy from it, not the meat itself. Some kitties require higher % of carbs so just in case, get some MC 13% - 18% and some HC 20+%.
You may never need it but in case you do it's better to be prepared :).
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Jacqui, you did well feeding Dave right after his 43 reading. Just remember to lower his dose for the next cycle. To how low exactly – I’ll leave for someone else to advice. I am sure that someone will pop in later on. Please stay logged in. Lowering the dosage also depends on the method or protocol that you follow.

Would that be possible for you to update the Spread Sheet (SS)? It would be very helpful to know where Dave is in his cycle. I also list al of the food that I gave in the Remark section of the SS – it’s easy to see it all at a glimpse.

People use different sites and technic to inject. As long as the insulin got into him it is not very important how (me think). You can work on your technic later on. There are plenty tutorials on this board.

The idea is to keep Dave in safe number such 75 and 74 that you got the last time. Well done you!:bighug:

I am new myself but I will stay with you here and wait until someone with good experience show up.

I am sorry but you need to stay up for a while longer.:)
Click to expand...
I really appreciate everything you guys are doing for me! Will I need a reading closer to the morning to sort out his new dose (i.e. should I do some extra ones early in the morning so there is time for people to respond before his insulin is due)? Has the spreadsheet not updated? I added the new reading, and hopefully the template worked. It's really nice of you to stay here with me. As for staying up later, it's the school holidays so I was probably going to stay up till 5am anyways! I'm just about to do his next test now.

And thanks, for the Fancy Feast recommendation, I'll look into getting some.
 
panda28 said:
And thanks, for the Fancy Feast recommendation, I'll look into getting some.
Click to expand...
I've got something better HERE
There are "Sticky Notes", marked in Yellow at the beginning of the LL forum. It is extremely informative and helpful.
Good job testing for ketones. Record in the SS as well.
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
I've got something better HERE
There are "Sticky Notes", marked in Yellow at the beginning of the LL forum. It is extremely informative and helpful.
Good job testing for ketones. Record in the SS as well.
Click to expand...

This website keeps giving and giving! Thanks for showing me this, I have no clue what I'd be doing without the info here. With the ketones, I've been recording them in the mmol/l version of the spreadsheet, but they're not coming across onto the mg/dl version. I'll add them across manually, but it might take a minute.

Update: Okay, I can't figure out to add them manually... I think I have to ask someone who also uses the 'world' version.
 
Hey there Jacqui and good catch on that 43! Since Dave was at or near nadir with that number, he should start coming up for you. But you need 2 tests without food influence to make sure he doesn't dip down again until you are out of the woods.

Congrats on the reduction so you want to take him back to 1 unit. I see that you just increased this cycle but that is how it goes sometimes one day the dose isn't enough and a increase is too much. Sometimes kitties dance back and forth between doses.

@Tara & Ivana are in Central Coast Australia but Ivana is OTJ now so she isn't on the boards a lot but you could send her a private message about food choices available to you. I am sure she will check in at some point and see your message. There are a few others Aussie but my mind can't grab onto the names right now and when I remember I will post to you.
 
Good plan! Hold on food yet, and retest. Is it +8 or +8.5?
You will need to feed him LC if he falls again.
If not than his regular meal but no later than 2 hours before the pre shot time. this way you'll know his number without food influence.
 
This next test is +8. So if his numbers stay steady, I should just feed him his normal meal in the morning? Should I continue to increase the amount of LC and decrease the MC? My plan was originally to feed him half of his new (LC) food and half of his old (MC) food, but now I don't know if I should just continue feeding him 75% MC and 25% LC for at least another day.
 
panda28 said:
This next test is +8. So if his numbers stay steady, I should just feed him his normal meal in the morning? Should I continue to increase the amount of LC and decrease the MC? My plan was originally to feed him half of his new (LC) food and half of his old (MC) food, but now I don't know if I should just continue feeding him 75% MC and 25% LC for at least another day.
Click to expand...
If you follow the TR protocol
than it is LC.
I would post a question to that regard on the Main Forum.
 
panda28 said:
Oops, I should have said that I'm following SLGS. I'll add it to my signature too.
Click to expand...
Then go ahead change your post title listing all Dave readings and ask advice for dosing/feeding with SLGS.
Something like "04/20 Dave PMPS 338, +6 43, +8 77 Dosing/Feeding advise pls"
This way you can get answers before you go to bed.
 
panda28 said:
Brilliant! Thanks so much for helping us through this, I couldn't have done it without you!
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Nonsense:D, you did it all yourself, but thank you!

Well done Dave!

Any chance you update the SS before going to sleep? The ppl who can advice on food and dosage will need to see it. I am not familiar with SLGS.

Some kitties do dive late in cycle, like mine. So I would probably give a little of LC food now - 2 teaspoons with water added into it. Dave deserves some treats after putting up with the hourly ear poking!
 
I've updated the spreadsheet, and I'm getting Dave a little bit of food - something I'm sure he'll be ecstatic about! I'm assuming I should make another thread to ask about the dose?
 
panda28 said:
I've updated the spreadsheet, and I'm getting Dave a little bit of food - something I'm sure he'll be ecstatic about! I'm assuming I should make another thread to ask about the dose?
Click to expand...
No, I would just change the title (go to original post, upper right hand corner Thread tools, click on Edit title and type).
Mention that you are new here, Dave's PMPS, +6 43, +8 77 and then ask your question. Keep the ? as the prefix.
 
Hi Jacqui and Dave,
Please keep everything in the same thread. We open a new thread (we call them "condos") every day. If you open more than one a day, people will have a terrible time keeping things straight and important questions might get lost, or not answered promptly.
You are doing very well. It is very scary to get such a huge drop. I wonder if some of the insulin may have gotten into the bloodstream when you shot straight down. In any event, Dave is OK. Do try to angle the needle so that the insulin goes in just under the skin. If you go too deep, you will hit muscle and that is painful.
Here is some contact info. for other Aussies on the board. They might not be around as much as they used to be, but I think they will make a note to check in on you and Dave, and answer questions about foods available in Australia:
@Bron and Sheba ; @Vyktors Mum

Welcome to you and Dave!
 
Okay, thanks! I'm planning on watching some of the videos on how to give the injection to make sure I do it right in the future. I also really appreciate the list of the Aussies on the board, it should help a lot with things like food.
 
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Jacqui and Dave,
Please keep everything in the same thread. We open a new thread (we call them "condos") every day. If you open more than one a day, people will have a terrible time keeping things straight and important questions might get lost, or not answered promptly.
You are doing very well. It is very scary to get such a huge drop. I wonder if some of the insulin may have gotten into the bloodstream when you shot straight down. In any event, Dave is OK. Do try to angle the needle so that the insulin goes in just under the skin. If you go too deep, you will hit muscle and that is painful.
Here is some contact info. for other Aussies on the board. They might not be around as much as they used to be, but I think they will make a note to check in on you and Dave, and answer questions about foods available in Australia:
@Bron and Sheba ; @Vyktors Mum

Welcome to you and Dave!
Click to expand...
Thank you Ella, my brain would allow me those two other names. :bighug:
 
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