4/2 Mo - Doesn't seem to be feeling great today

katy and mo (GA)

katy and mo (GA)

Member Since 2020
Yesterday

The ketone sticks have arrived today. Is someone able to let me know how I can test him? He uses the litter tray for wees but I've googled and a lot of websites are saying to hold it under him as he wees. I don't think he would like me hovering around...

He doesn't seem to be feeling great today. The last couple of days he hasn't been interested in going outside at all and has just been laying around. This was since the specialist appointment. He hasn't finished all of his lunch which is unlike him as well. The reduced dose could also be doing that to him. I'm going to try have a play with him later, I have a few things to do today.

Have a great day everyone!
 
Hi Katy, you could try putting a small plastic container in the spot Mo likes to pee most to try and catch the wee.
Or you could try a long laddle spoon to put under his butt. Or crumple some plastic in the litter to try and catch a few drops. There are also marine stones you can buy to put LB in place of the litter.
When you get the urine, you dip the strip into the urine and read the result exactly 15 seconds late against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention but I think if you even saw a trace, I would be increasing the dose of insulin again.

He could be feeling a bit lousy because of higher numbers. Is he lethargic or off his food? If he is that is even more reason to get that ketone test done.
 
katy and mo said:
Yesterday

The ketone sticks have arrived today. Is someone able to let me know how I can test him? He uses the litter tray for wees but I've googled and a lot of websites are saying to hold it under him as he wees. I don't think he would like me hovering around...

He doesn't seem to be feeling great today. The last couple of days he hasn't been interested in going outside at all and has just been laying around. This was since the specialist appointment. He hasn't finished all of his lunch which is unlike him as well. The reduced dose could also be doing that to him. I'm going to try have a play with him later, I have a few things to do today.

Have a great day everyone!
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A little plastic/Saran wrap over the spot where he usually pees should do the trick unless Mo's a digger. :)
 
Katy,

Mo may have very high BG and that's why he's feeling so poorly and just lying around. That's the first, most obvious guess, since his insulin has been reduced by over 60%.

Really glad you got the ketostix. Maybe others can give tips, but yes, you need to hold under a urine stream. I've read of people holding a spoon under the stream and dipping the ketone strip in that. I sure hope you can get this done, even more so if you aren't going to test his BG. With his extra tiredness, it's possible you could get a BG test. I say that partially because when my kitty was diagnosed, she felt so poorly, she was super easy to test.
 
I'm sorry Katy, I hope you can catch a test. I'd try and follow him to the litter box, I've done that with Mav and he doesn't seem to mind. I've also picked him up and dropped him in, just to suggest to him that I'd like him to use it. Sometimes he steps out, and I have to try again a little later. You can also use a ladle (just be sure to remember which one so you don't end up cooking with it :p) and just slide it under as he pees.
 
Thanks for your suggestions! I'll be sure to get a ketone test done today. I just tested him at +8 and he's 382. To be expected really given the way he's acting. I gave him a piece of chicken afterwards and then he growled at me as he ate it. He really has it in for me right now. He used to be so loving :(
 
Good luck!

I may have mentioned this before, but I'm a fan of the blood ketone meters, if that's an option for you down the line. I'm usually able to test using the same blood drop I use for BG, so it doesn't add any stress and I don't have to try to catch pee. The blood meter and urine strips also test for different forms of ketones; the ones the blood meter detects are more associated with DKA. And it's more sensitive and gives a quantitative reading. Something to think about if you think you may need to test more often.
 
I hope the vet calls you back right away :bighug:. In the meantime, try and keep him well hydrated, extra water in his food, almost soupy if he will tolerate it. Ketones can build up quickly to where you may have a problem.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...cats-a-primer-on-ketones.239971/#post-2699111

With the reduced dose, I'm worried that part of the requirement has been met for DKA. The recipe for DKA is not enough insulin + inappetance + infection or other systemic stress
 
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Just called my normal vet as well so hopefully they call me back quicker. Apparently the specialist is too busy to give any advice right now o_O

He's hidden himself away in the spare room. Doesn't want to be near us. I'm really worried :(
 
Well done collecting the urine and getting the test done.
As Christie said, keep offering food...soupy if he will eat it.
Food and insulin are two things that are needed to combat ketones. We don’t want the ketones to increase. It’s much easier to manage them if caught early.
I hope one of the vets returns your call soon.....they should with ketones in the picture.
 
He has eaten just an hour or so ago. I will give him some soupy food just in case though. My normal vet is a bit dumb so I'm worried they will give me bad advice.
 
Sorry to hear Mo is feeling poorly today. Have you done the course of antibiotics now? Did it seem to help?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sorry to hear Mo is feeling poorly today. Have you done the course of antibiotics now? Did it seem to help?
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Yes we gave the last ones yesterday. His poos are now solid but he is doing at least 2 lots of poos a day now and a lot. That might be because we have increased the amount he is eating though. Still pretty smelly but improving for sure. Not runny anymore.
 
Just got off the phone with our normal vet. She said she honestly doesn't know much about this and she is sure that Prue wouldn't have suggested anything that would put him at risk :banghead: Our normal vet is going to be sending Prue an email with what I've told her (he's not happy within himself, trace ketones, etc etc) and she's hoping to get a response this evening. Otherwise, we won't hear back until Tuesday ugh. Soooooo I got no advice really, just that they are going to contact Prue. I tried contacting her first and they told me to contact my normal vet. This is all so frustrating.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I hate vet tag. :mad:
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Me too :( I also mentioned on the phone that I wanted to switch him to Levemir but she suggested to wait until the pancreatitis test came back to see if there are any underlying issues. I'm just so mad. Why pay so much money for a specialist and not being able to contact them when their advice is bad? I'm just so disappointed. Surely if he was being given too much insulin he would be feeling better by now right? Not feeling worse?
 
upload_2021-2-4_17-14-53.png

This is the ketone test
The brown on the left is for glucose, the right is the ketones.
 

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Looks like trace ketones for sure. A sign the dose is too low.

The choice of insulin has nothing to do with whether or not he has pancreatitis. Your post yesterday was enough to say he needs the switch to Levemir ASAP.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Looks like trace ketones for sure. A sign the dose is too low.

The choice of insulin has nothing to do with whether or not he has pancreatitis. Your post yesterday was enough to say he needs the switch to Levemir ASAP.
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That's exactly what I thought. I'm going to start pushing it now. It's getting ridiculous.

Mo is sleeping on the floor so I put myself next to him and was stroking his head. He didn't seem to mind that. Then he started twitching. He usually does that when he's in a deep sleep but I was terrified it was a seizure so I woke him up. He was unimpressed to say the least.
 
Aww. He's fine, you're just on worry overload at the moment. My kitties have little sleep dreams too. I woke up Maverick once from deep sleep because I was sure I couldn't see him breathing. Just keep up with the soupy food and keep testing for ketones when you can.
 
He had been eating and drinking so that's good. He has barely moved for the last 2 days and I'm just super worried.

Tim doesn't want to increase the dose back to 9.5u. Says maybe this is what is expected when we decrease and maybe he will level out soon. I just...........uuggghhhhhh
 
katy and mo said:
He had been eating and drinking so that's good. He has barely moved for the last 2 days and I'm just super worried.
Tim doesn't want to increase the dose back to 9.5u. Says maybe this is what is expected when we decrease and maybe he will level out soon. I just...........uuggghhhhhh
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Level out to what though? More hiding and more ketones and feeling rotten?
Wendy asked you to test for ketones because we were concerned they would appear if the dose was dropped... and they did appear.
You can’t ignore ketones.
Ask Tim if he has a spare $5000.00 for vet care if the ketones progress to DKA because that is what it can cost if the ketones got worse and progressed to DKA. And DKA is a life threatening illness.
Please tell him to come online so we can explain why it’s so important to get back to a good dose.

I’m just amazed that a feline specialist would not tell you to test for ketones when they said to drop the dose so drastically.
 
I was able to compromise with Tim and we gave him 6 units this evening and will give 6 units until we hear back from the specialist (which probably won't be till next week). I know he should be back on 9.5u. But I have to compromise with Tim. I'm sick of arguing, I'm exhausted and all I want to do is curl up in a ball and cry. I'm really struggling and not having the vet support that I need is really taking its toll.

I have noticed he's been sticking his tongue out more. His right fang looks to have moved or grown bigger recently to the point where he can't really keep his whole tongue in his mouth. She did mention the gap between his fang and other teeth could be a sign of acromegaly (jaw growing) but was unsure. Now I have put two and two together and he has been sticking his tongue out more and more lately, it all makes sense....
 
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katy and mo said:
I was able to compromise with Tim and we gave him 6 units this evening and will give 6 units until we hear back from the specialist (which probably won't be till next week). I know he should be back on 9.5u. But I have to compromise with Tim. I'm sick of arguing, I'm exhausted and all I want to do is curl up in a ball and cry. I'm really struggling and not having the vet support that I need is really taking its toll.
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So sorry you're having such a difficult time. It really sounds like you're caught in the middle. Pressure from all sides to do a certain thing and you're the one with the responsibility.
One needs to be in a peaceful state of mind to make good decisions and it's difficult when you're getting pressured and feeling torn up from seeing your kitty suffer.
All the best wishes for clarity for you and better days for Mo. :bighug:
 
:bighug::bighug::bighug:Hi Katy
I am so sorry you are in such a difficult position. You must be exhausted from the stress and I would want to curl up and cry as well.

I am glad you at least increased the dose to 6 units. Keep testing for ketones every day and popping the result into the remarks column of the SS so a track of them can be kept.
Keep up the food and fluids.

The gap between the teeth does sound like Acro. Wendy is the Acro expert here. If the specialist thought he might have Acro, all the more reason not to decrease the dose :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I hope you can get some sleep tonight and wake up feeling a bit better. Mo is a very lucky boy to have such a wonderful mum:cat:
 
Katy :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

Trust yourself and your instincts.
I came close to loosing George over a mouth infection, he got sick had convulsions, so I took him to our vet. She did a blood test, checked his temp (badly she was too quick). Said he probably had a virus and he would get over it, to watch him. George stopped eating (he is a glutton, never looses his appy).
Blood tests came back fine, she wouldn't give AB said he didn't have an infection. Said to carry on 'observing' him. He was getting worse. Not much choice of vets here either.
In the end, listening to the advice of many who have posted here I got a second opinion , I drove George one hour to another vet, I had used him before for surgery to another of my cats that had got shot.
It took him, I kid you not, 30seconds to diagnose the problem. His teeth, one was wobbly and his gums were inflamed. He was gobsmacked that something hadn't been done. I had addressed his teeth with the first vet, she didn't think I should put him through a dental, because of his age, ckd, diabetes. He appreciated that surgery was more risky given his age and other health issues but didn't understand why she had refused to give him AB.
George was put on ABs to clear up the infection prior to his surgery and had most of his teeth removed. He recovered and is well now.
I kicked myself for letting it get that bad, I 'observed' him for nearly two weeks, I knew something was wrong, I wished I'd taken him for a second opinion sooner.
It was months before I could go see the first vet again, do you know what she said when I told her that I had taken him for a second opinion, and that he'd had all his teeth out and was doing fine?
She said 'Well yes, his teeth were in a really bad way...'
I can understand her not feeling capable to deal with Georges surgery (she hasn't got a good track record with cat surgeries, I later found out), but what I can't forgive is her not having the B***s to say 'his teeth are bad, that's probably causing his problem, but I don't want to do the surgery because I don't have the experience'

Anyways just trust yourself. I hope Tim comes around, I know he wants to believe the vet is right we all feel that way. Sending you both lots of :bighug::bighug::bighug: and mo some gentle scritches.

I'm glad he's eating his soup, and getting a good amount of calories, that's a good sign.
 
Gill & George said:
Katy :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

Trust yourself and your instincts.
I came close to loosing George over a mouth infection, he got sick had convulsions, so I took him to our vet. She did a blood test, checked his temp (badly she was too quick). Said he probably had a virus and he would get over it, to watch him. George stopped eating (he is a glutton, never looses his appy).
Blood tests came back fine, she wouldn't give AB said he didn't have an infection. Said to carry on 'observing' him. He was getting worse. Not much choice of vets here either.
In the end, listening to the advice of many who have posted here I got a second opinion , I drove George one hour to another vet, I had used him before for surgery to another of my cats that had got shot.
It took him, I kid you not, 30seconds to diagnose the problem. His teeth, one was wobbly and his gums were inflamed. He was gobsmacked that something hadn't been done. I had addressed his teeth with the first vet, she didn't think I should put him through a dental, because of his age, ckd, diabetes. He appreciated that surgery was more risky given his age and other health issues but didn't understand why she had refused to give him AB.
George was put on ABs to clear up the infection prior to his surgery and had most of his teeth removed. He recovered and is well now.
I kicked myself for letting it get that bad, I 'observed' him for nearly two weeks, I knew something was wrong, I wished I'd taken him for a second opinion sooner.
It was months before I could go see the first vet again, do you know what she said when I told her that I had taken him for a second opinion, and that he'd had all his teeth out and was doing fine?
She said 'Well yes, his teeth were in a really bad way...'
I can understand her not feeling capable to deal with Georges surgery (she hasn't got a good track record with cat surgeries, I later found out), but what I can't forgive is her not having the B***s to say 'his teeth are bad, that's probably causing his problem, but I don't want to do the surgery because I don't have the experience'

Anyways just trust yourself. I hope Tim comes around, I know he wants to believe the vet is right we all feel that way. Sending you both lots of :bighug::bighug::bighug: and mo some gentle scritches.

I'm glad he's eating his soup, and getting a good amount of calories, that's a good sign.
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WOW, go you! I truly agree that we know when something isn't right and I'm soo soo happy that you took George for a second opinion. Poor guy was suffering when it was so unnecessary!

I will definitely trust myself. I'm glad we increased tonight. I am slowly convincing Tim more and more that Mo has acromegaly. I feel it right in my gut that it's what he is struggling with. It would just make so much sense.

On a positive note, he wanted to go outside this evening!!! He went outside for a stroll and came back inside about 10 minutes later but it's an improvement from the last 2 days! Maybe the 6 units is making him feel better already?! Oh he came in to have some water and has gone back out. EEEEE this makes me feel so much better. :D :D :D
 
katy and mo said:
On a positive note, he wanted to go outside this evening!!! He went outside for a stroll and came back inside about 10 minutes later but it's an improvement from the last 2 days! Maybe the 6 units is making him feel better already?! Oh he came in to have some water and has gone back out. EEEEE this makes me feel so much better. :D :D
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That is a good sign.
:D:D:D
 
Oh Katy! I've been so lost in my own head and fatigue that I've just (finally) spent the last while catching up on your last few condo's. I am so sorry you've been going through all of this with poor Mo!! :bighug: If I could cross the ditch and give you a hug, I would. I'm so glad Mo is feeling a bit better this evening and hopefully you are too.
 
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