4/2 Hank- AMPS- 78, +9 -63, pMPS- 65

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bettyandhank

bettyandhank

Member Since 2010
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10827 Yesterday's condo


Purr-fect number!


We are a bit late on schedule from the last couple days. I went for a short walk straight out of bed this morning, and Hankie hung out by the big windows staying over there when i got back. I grabbed coffee & was having cereal when I hear him scratching on the shut door to come to this side where we were.
He comes in, walks in the kitchen and jumps on his testing table....Sits waiting while I nuke the rice sock. HE knew it was past our normal time ...so gets on the counter on his spot and assumes the position. Too cute! I LOVE this pumpkin boy!!!
 
Re: 4/2 Hank- AMPS- 78

Great AMPS for Hank! Yeah, these micro doses are a @%#&*@. I'm shooting right on the line, refilled the syringe after and got 2 drops out or maybe one big one @-)

thanks for the post. Really was surprised at the OK for the trial, so I'm not surprised at the result. We really shouldn't have started on April Fool's Day. :lol: Tess is coming back down and we just have to get the shed refilled. At this dose, that isn't much.
 
Re: 4/2 Hank- AMPS- 78, +9 -63

+9- 63 that part's good


I just fed him a little from a new can/brand we bought to try. Made a list early on after reading, going through the charts etc..
THOUGHT this one was ok and on the list, but now I am not so sure i got the correct one. I don't know that it's bad. But this may in fact not be the item from the list i intended...so just a little panicky.
He only ate maybe less than and oz...but he LOVED it.

On the OLD janet binky list is eagle pack chicken/lamb. THIS is what we intended.
I asked where the Eagle Pack cat food was, this is where they pointed...i checked for the correct flavor, but didn't examine beyond that.

The can label says 'Feline Holistic Select' chicken/lamb (wellpet LLC) NOT EAGLE PACK Chicken/Lamb, which is what meant to get. Didn't notice this at the time.

So googled to see what the deal is. The website is holisticselect.com.

Then I google the Eagle Pack site.
This site even references the cat formulas can benefit diabetic cats reducing the need for insulin.
BUT the label on the can I fed looks different than the one on the Eagle Pack site (the pink colored chicken/lamb recipe) ...though that one is also called Eagle Pack 'Holistic Select'

It appears Eagle Pack is also the maker of 'Holistic Select', in addition to their premium line ALSO called Holistic Select??? BOTH with a chicken lamb formula?

has potatoes, peas, and oatmeal in both..but they are down the line of ingredients.

It could be BOTH of these have the same content and protein/fat/carb ratio.
But now I'm not sure if I may have fed him something I shouldn't have??

i don't imagine this was even out when Janet/Binky's list was last updated.


Here's the link to the label:
http://holisticselect.com/product.aspx?pet=cat&cat=2&pid=29

then to eagle pack:
http://www.eaglepack.com/SP_CanCat.html


Could they make this any more confusing? It could be virtually the same formula with different vitamins ..or just different packaging??

But seems to be a sub-line of sorts. Is one holistic and the other isn't and that's the only difference?


To feed or not to feed????

To worry having already fed, or not to worry????????


Crap..what do i do? Should I feed him anymore?

Did I make a big boo-boo??
 
Re: 4/2 Hank- AMPS- 78, +9 -63

IIRC Cowboy Cookout and some other flavors have ingredients like spuds and fruits and veggies, yet they're on the OK-to-feed list. Must be because they're such small amounts. Hank should be fine. If he spikes, you can blame the food :razz:. If nothing else it will tell you if he can bring his BG down on his own without the invisible insulin dose.
 
Re: 4/2 Hank- AMPS- 78, +9 -63

He really liked it. I just don't know if it's on the OK or BAD list. The 'unknown' is the problem.

Did you look at those websites...how confusing! I can't tell if it's the same formula or different from what's on the Janet/binky list.

similar names, but not the same, same flavor, different labels,different websites. One makes the other..but IS IT THE SAME?

If it IS ok, then I'd like to keep feeding...cause he seemed to really like it.

How to KNOW??

HC or NOT?
 
PMPS- 65

guess it wasn't too HC...or if so, he didn't get enough to matter. All looks well. He's having a good day.
 
I was getting mentally geared up, then ran across this yesterday in another condo which had me thinking;

Normally you want to to keep giving some insulin until you absolutley can't anymore. That means either after giving just 1 drop the BG drops to low (<50 usually) or the dose is so small you can't even measure it anymore (less than a drop) and the numbers are staying mostly under 100 for a week or so. The dose below .25U is often called .1U or "some insulin" or a FAT 0, it is basically just a drop. In the sticky is a picture of this, you can just barely see a hirs width of light between the plunger and the 0 line on the syringe. With such a small amount there is almost no danger of any "hypo" episodes, even when the BG drops to 50 there is little danger of it going much lower and with so little insulin just a lick of food will bring it right back up and so little insulin will not have any prolonged working. It's best to try and keep giving this dose every 12 hours for at least a week or 2 and making sure the BG stays in the green. When that happens it's time to attempt an OTJ trial
Click to expand...

This now makes 1 week at this new dose. He was highish last night (25 pts extra)...today, beautiful. BUT on insulin (fumes)

Plus then saw Tess today, so feeling a bit tepid. I do think he is probably ready. Just nervous. I want his numbers to stay as they've been...all green.
Smokey is sure having a good run of it though.

Yikes. It's scary.
 
yeah, it would not load for me either.

Hank's not just green, he's 60s green. DO IT! Even if it's just for a few days, like this weekend. Let him sniff the insulin if it makes you feel better :mrgreen:
 
I haven't a clue in who's condo you read the note. You are also forgetting one of the cardinal rules: every cat is different. I think you are the first person I've run into that has had multiple people suggest your cat is ready for an OTJ trial and who continues to shoot insulin. It's certainly your choice to continue, but I'm dumbfounded.
 
Hi Sienne-
How are you? I guess if you read our condo back a few days it might be more understandable. It has only been a couple days now that that's been clear or any consensus. Libby and Jill only just suggested night before last in response to a low PS, but by the time she posted later, I'd shot already. Prior she'd suggested holding on a little longer. CD would have had me try a few days sooner than that when he pulled a funny one, but we'd only been on our reduced dose a day or so at that point, it felt too abrupt so we shaved the dose instead giving him a little more time and to get more comfortable with it.
He seemed a little off for a day or so this week, sleeping alot and drinking extra water until yesterday when he popped out of it. I was NOT going to do it yesterday on April Fools day. So was thinking toward the weekend.
It's a process and we wanted to be really certain. Sounds like you don't relate. There are lots of different opinions out there. Appreciate your concern...I think that's what that is. Funny that this also feels scary, but it does. I guess EBID, too.


off to bed...

G'nite.
 
I saw that post and if it the one I am thinking of, I believe it was stressed a bit harder to stay on the insulin because the person was doing large drops in doses after only a few cycles and skipping a lot of shots and looking to get off of the insulin with a spreadsheet that to me, indicated the cat should be moved back up the scale not OTJ'd. That is CLEARLY not the case here with Hank. He has consistantly, without fail, held good numbers, and on the lower side of the good range. No bumping blues or anything.

The bit in there about hypoing a cat on such a small dose has been proven wrong on this board, I've read the condos of cats who have bottomed out on a drop. The chances are slim, and there's no saying that Hank could go there - he's a pretty flat guy on this dose, but to me that is a risk you continue to take if you continue shooting any insulin. There is chance that we can go back up and need to start shooting a larger dose again. But we've learned to watch for that and we've learned what we need to do to try to avoid that.

It really is a balancing to not go to fast, but not keep on long after OTJ time. I could have stayed at the microdosing for a bit longer to try to work all those blues out of her system before we went off. But I am much more comfortable with watching and being ready to quickly deal with a number that starts to rise than to continue to put medicine into her that has the chance of sending into a life threatening situation suddenly. The consistant long string good low numbers are the sign that our kitties can handle it on their own.
 
I would agree that Hank is ready for a trial. I think I wrote that (perhaps to Amy & Pedro) and Pedro has been on insulin much longer (almost 1 year) Amy had gone from a dose of .5U to nothing (shooting a small dose when Pedro was higher). In addition he has some other health problems and is on cortisone. In most cases that is the procedure for reducing and starting an OTJ trial, but there are cats that go much quicker. I have seen cats that have gone from 1U to nothing overnight.

The bit in there about hypoing a cat on such a small dose has been proven wrong on this board, I've read the condos of cats who have bottomed out on a drop.
Click to expand...

It is practically impossible to have a symptomatic hypo on a drop of insulin. The cat may drop to numbers slightly lower than 50 but with such a small dose the calories in 1 bite of food are enough to offset the insulin and the effects of such a tiny dose will be of short duration. The main goal of these microdoses is to prevent food spikes. The cats own pancreas is working and able to keep the basal BG in the normal range, the drop of insulin simply assists in the processing of the food to keep the prehaps still fragile pancreas from being to overwhelmed.

I can understand not wanting to start on April fools :lol: but now I think it's safe, so call it "chewing GUM" or H*neym**n trial or *anti-jinx* or whatever makes you confortable. I have no doubts that Hank will "stay on the wagon" :mrgreen:

Good luck!
 
Yay! Thanks Monique! that's just what we needed to see this morning!

The cats own pancreas is working and able to keep the basal BG in the normal range, the drop of insulin simply assists in the processing of the food to keep the prehaps still fragile pancreas from being to overwhelmed.
Click to expand...

Good to know. This also really helps.
SAFE is key.

Thanks SO MUCH for the luck and encouraging words!


betty & Hank
 
I agree with Monique that it's next to impossible to have a symptomatic hypo on such a small amount of insulin. In the case that I suspect Melanie is thinking of, it was a kitty that didn't eat very much, especially at shot time.

I have been following your condo. I suspect you aren't seeing what some people post. For example, from last night (a few posts up this thread):
Libby & Lucy said:
so when are you going to stop shooting? Am I going to have to come take away your Lantus?
Click to expand...
 
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