4/19 Mooch AMPS 428, PMPS 216 + Raw questions

[Lisa & Mary]

Mooch's blood glucose was pretty high this morning. He hadn't eaten the raw chicken by midnight so I gave him some EVO kibble which he scarfed down immediately and then he also ate 85g (~3oz) of the chicken overnight so got a lot of food including kibble that sent his blood sugars high. He didn't touch the meaty chicken thigh bone but I'll keep offering them and sprinkle with some FortiFlora once I get that in the mail.

I kept his dose at 0.5 units this morning and gave more raw chciken chopped into smaller pieces which he seems to prefer and some chicken liver. He's already eaten some of the chicken liver and seems to like that. I tried sprinkling a bit of parmesan cheese onto the chicken to see if that will encourage him to eat.

I read Dr Lisa's site on making raw food and had a couple of questions that I hopet that some other members here who know about raw can help answer.

• The suppliments to provide a balanced diet (added to chicken, rabbit etc) include vitamin B-complex and taurine. These occur naturally in meat and liver in fairly high levels so why do you need to add them as supplements?
  
  I see that Dr Lisa recommends a ground raw diet including fine ground bones but I've seen other sites recommending feeding chunks of meat and raw meaty bones. I like the sound of the raw meaty bones as they really help keep cats teeth clean and it seems like it would be easier to just cut the food into pieces vs grinding everything up. My cats all like raw meat as a treat but only one, Sassy, likes bones and will gnaw on them and clean off the meat and eat some of the bone on small bones like chicken wings. Mooch ignored the chicken thigh bone last night and just ate the chopped up meat/skin. Any ideas how to encourage him to try the bones?

Link to yesterdays condo viewtopic.php?f=9&t=69014&p=751088&hilit=mooch#p750680

Mooch sends smooches to everyone!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 4/19 Mooch AMPS 428 + Raw questions

I would be very apprehensive about feeding anything except bones that are ground. A bone sliver that may be swallowed can easily pierce the intestines and cause peritonitis. (Think about why it would be dangerous if your cat swallowed a pin or a needle.) A sharp chunk of bone could do serious damage to Mooch's intestinal track.

Too much liver is NOT good. There is a limit to the amount of liver you should be feeding a cat. The liver is the organ that detoxifies pretty much anything that's eaten which is one reason that too much isn't good. There's another reason, but it's escaping me. While taurine may occur naturally in meat and liver, Without sufficient amounts of taurine, you risk retinal degeneration/blindness and cardiomyopathy. There are a number of variables which effect the viability of the amount of taurine in a raw diet. You have better control of the actual amount when using a supplement. The same would hold true for B-vitamins. In particular, with a diabetic cat, some B-vitamins (both methylcobalamin and cobalamin) are helpful with neuropathy. B-vitamins are water soluble and any excess will be excreted.

 

[squeem3]

Re: 4/19 Mooch AMPS 428 + Raw questions

Some people do feed raw whole poultry necks to their cats with no problem at all. Maybe a little FortiFlora on the raw bone will entice Mooch to give it a try? Raw gizzards is also supposed to help with dental health.

There are some cats who eat raw but just don't care for bones or gizzards. Like my Leroy but he is also a weird cat :roll: I just brush his teeth daily to keep them clean.

 

[MelanieAndRacci]

Re: 4/19 Mooch AMPS 428 + Raw questions

I agree with Sienne. I would never give a cat or dog for that matter, chicken bones or any tiny bones that could splinter. It's very dangerous. They should be ground or big thick bones for chewing on.

Melanie & Racci

 

[Ann & Tess GA]

Re: 4/19 Mooch AMPS 428 + Raw questions

I make raw for Tess and just chunk up the meat, it is good for their teeth. Is this just as a treat or are you using it as a primary food? If as their main diet you do need to add the supplements. The grinder that can handle bones is expensive, but I know from experience that smaller ones don't work. ohmygod_smile Dr. Lisa also has a recipe w/out bone, you add in food grade bonemeal. You can get all the supplements from iHerb, but I've found the same brands locally at a vitamin/health food shop. I even found a live probiotic for pets (Pet-dophillus) that my vet recommended, and we live in a small unincorporated town.

Sienne, someone in Health just posted a link on foods bad for cats. Liver is on it if you feed a lot:

Liver

Small amounts of liver are OK, but eating too much liver can cause vitamin A toxicity. This is a serious condition that can affect your cat's bones. Symptoms include deformed bones, bone growths on the elbows and spine, and osteoporosis. Vitamin A toxicity can also cause death.

There are premixed supplements too, where you just add meat. PM me if you have questions.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Re: 4/19 Mooch AMPS 428 + Raw questions

I've seen a lot of discussion on raw food web sites about whether raw food should be ground - some even say the muscle meat should be whole and loses value when ground. And I've seen papers by vets which argue both sides of the question so it doesn't look like there is a clear answer.

Cats safely eat raw bones of mice and small birds. Neko likes raw chicken necks, but I just give her about 1 inch at a time. Raw food places around here sell frozen them as "neck bites" but it would be easy enough to do them on your own. Wing tips are another possibility, although I haven't tried those yet. Cats prefer the smaller softer bones such as necks and wing tips. Necks are a lot of cartilage. Raw bones are a lot softer and safer than cooked bones which definitely splinter and should never be served. Warming can be done in water, but never in the microwave. Always supervise pets eating raw bones.

My civie doesn't know what to do with chicken necks. I was told I could cut them into smaller pieces and try him on those first. The problem is that while he is trying to figure out what to do, Neko has polished off hers and gone to his dish to finish his. I'll have to try him again when she isn't around but at the moment he is getting ground bone powder in addition to the small ground bones in his meal.

 

[Lisa & Mary]

Thanks for the info everyone. Mooch didn't like canned food so I'm trying raw which he seems to have more interest in. He ate 40g of chicken thigh/5g of liver today and I've given him more chicken thigh and a neck tonight. I'm still not sure whether he'll like raw or become bored with it like he did with the Wysong after a few days but if he does like it I'll feed it as his main diet. At the moment I'm just experimenting to see if he'll take to it.