? 4/18 Walter AMPS 85, +2 101, +3 93, +5 174, +8 274, PMPS 309 - need help with dosing

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Mandarin'sMom

Mandarin'sMom

Member Since 2014
Yesterday's condo

After a mostly pink day yesterday, Walter is starting today with a green pre-shot. And we are all going btb for a bit. I wasn't feeling well yesterday and woke up with a migraine early this morning. There's no way I can teach today... I am not even sure if I could safely drive myself to campus. And even though I wouldn't exactly say that there's ever a "good" time for a migraine, I am kind of glad that I can stay home with Walt today.

However, I am just not sure what to make of his numbers anymore. He's always liked the trampoline, but this back and forth is getting more and more extreme. I guess the good news is that his bounces (if that's indeed what's happening) don't last long at all anymore. But he also barely makes it into the lagoon before he goes right back up. I would really appreciate another set of eyes on his ss and some advice on whether his dose needs to be adjusted. ...and part of me is wondering if he would actually even out a bit more on a sightly lower dose.
 
I hope your migraine goes away soon. Sorry Walter is bouncing so much. I'm not really sure about the dose. Sometimes a dose increase helps flatten them out, but I'm not sure since Walter is getting some nice green numbers.
 
I'm not sure what to think about what Walter has been up to lately:confused: I don't know that less juice is the answer. Guess if it were me I'd hold the dose for a few more cycles and see if he gives you some direction. Sorry about the migraine....hopefully some rest will help you today.
 
It can be so hard to try to figure out what to do with a bouncy kitty! It may help to keep in mind that cats bounce until they don't. (I know, it's a small amount of solace.)

One option may be to do whatever you can to prevent Walter from earning a dose reduction. The idea is to maximize the amount of insulin and if it looks like he's dropping (e.g., 3/31 during the PM cycle) and looks like he's aiming to go low, intervene with food earlier rather than later. The idea is to prolong the amount of time that Walter is spending in normal numbers so his body stops overreacting to the blues and greens. I'd also try to get a +2 test since Walter seems to want to surprise you early in the cycle.

How are you feeding him? If you're not already doing so, spreading his food out into several small meals early in the cycle may help.
 
I sure hope you feel better .... bouncy kittys are challenging and so frustrating (DRE!) up down up down ugh-
no advice just hugs!:bighug::bighug:
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
How are you feeding him? If you're not already doing so, spreading his food out into several small meals early in the cycle may help.
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I feed smaller meals 6 times a day. Since my teaching schedule varies from day to day, the specific meal times are a bit different each day, but it is usually around +3 and +7 or 8 (both during the AM and PM cycle). If he is dropping fast, I usually feed more frequently... but, on a day like today, I am not really sure what to do. His +2 is a bit higher, so I haven't given him any more food just yet. I figured I would get the Insulin a chance to start working and then test again in an hour and feed then. Does that make sense? Or should I try to give him a snack now since this isn't exactly a big food spike?

...I sometimes feel that whatever I do makes things worse. If I shoot low, he for sure bounces. If I skip a shot, he also bounces. If I don't feed enough, he bounces. But too much food, especially something that's a bit higher in carbs, will also trigger high numbers.
 
Mandarin'sMom said:
I feed smaller meals 6 times a day. Since my teaching schedule varies from day to day, the specific meal times are a bit different each day, but it is usually around +3 and +7 or 8 (both during the AM and PM cycle). If he is dropping fast, I usually feed more frequently... but, on a day like today, I am not really sure what to do. His +2 is a bit higher, so I haven't given him any more food just yet. I figured I would get the Insulin a chance to start working and then test again in an hour and feed then. Does that make sense? Or should I try to give him a snack now since this isn't exactly a big food spike?

...I sometimes feel that whatever I do makes things worse. If I shoot low, he for sure bounces. If I skip a shot, he also bounces. If I don't feed enough, he bounces. But too much food, especially something that's a bit higher in carbs, will also trigger high numbers.
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I so understand this. It's like "damned if you do and damned if you don't."
 
Oh Walter....... come back down! Please.

ETA: I will be interested to see if anyone else has any ideas for you with the bouncing stuff as it seems like Bubs was doing that a bit before the vaca dose reduction.
 
Where do you want Walter's nadirs to be? He's been seeing the 70's, which is pretty good. I don't think I'd lower his dose - that might make him flatter, but higher and your goal should be to try to get him to spend more time in green so he gets used to it. It's only taken me 4 years to get Neko to slow down her bounces. :rolleyes: Yes, cat's do it in their own sweet time.

What %carb food is Walter getting? Another option is to give him slighly higher carbs (but still low carb, may 8% ish) and a hair more juice. I'd also try to move the +7 to +8 snack earlier, maybe +6 or change it to a no carb snack. Carbs after nadir can put the brakes on the insulin action, though I don't see a lot of that happening with Walter. It's just another variable to play with.

I hope your head is feeling better now.:bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It's only taken me 4 years to get Neko to slow down her bounces. :rolleyes: Yes, cat's do it in their own sweet time.
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Let's hope that Walter won't read that part! ;) I think I am extra impatient at the moment because he actually pulled of some really nice, flat blue/green cycles before I left town for two days. So I know he can do it... and I still feel like there must be something that I can do to gt him back there. Sigh...

As of right now, he is in the high yellows and it looks like my earlier prediction about making it into the pinks by tonight will indeed come true (for once, I had actually hoped that I was wrong). :(

His diet is a mix of Friskies Pates and FF Classic. I alternate flavors between meals because my civvie, Capone, is still not the biggest fan of canned food and won't eat the same flavor twice in a row. So there really is no rhyme or reason to whether I feed 3% or 8% carb food (it usually is a mix of both on any given day). Unless he has other plans, I might give him a dosecrease on Thursday and watch carb content more closely.

...and my head feels even worse after a three hour "nap" in a 75-degree room with two big, hairy dogs and a cat on top of me... Still hard to believe that it was snowing 8 days ago and it's above 80 today.
 
well, looking at his spreadsheet, here's what I'm thinking.

I would consider increasing his dose rather than decreasing it - I'm not sure if I'd go with 0.25u increase or a fattened dose. If you're up for it - and maybe with a migraine this isn't the time - but I might go with the 0.25u. Then I would use food to prevent him from earning a reduction for just a few cycles. Basically what you want to do is what Sienne is suggesting - getting as much insulin as is safe into him. Sometimes doing that for even a few days can be enough to bring down those higher numbers. I agree with Wendy as well - reducing the dose does work to lessen bouncing - because you've stopped pushing a cat into lower range and they end up staying higher than is ideal.

Take a look at this post that Jill wrote about Feeding the Curve. Ask questions if it doesn't make sense.

With the Tight Reg Protocol, even with green nadirs there can be reasons for increasing the dose. While I agreed at the time that when you got back from your trip that you could hold the 1.75u, now i'm thinking that bypassing the 2.0u might've been too big of a decrease. Hindsight is always more accurate than trying to predict the future, of course.

INCREASING THE DOSE:
  • Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
    • if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
    • when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.

You've got 20 cycles of 1.75u and my guess is that this is as good as it's going to get AT THIS TIME on this dose. A dose that worked before can stop working, and a dose that didn't work before can work when you try it again. I think I'd try a bit of an increase and see if that doesn't help.

Hope some of those musings help you a bit.
 
@julie & punkin (ga) @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko Since I am still feeling rather crappy, I didn't make any changes tonight - but it sounds like a dosecrease is the way to go. Now the question is about timing: I only teach a night class tomorrow (so I am home until +7 and back right before his PM shot), but I am gone from +1 until +7 on Wednesday and then more flexible the next 4 days.

Does it make more sense to increase tomorrow morning, figuring that he will have some NDW and most likely see higher numbers at first anyways? Or should I hold off until Wednesday night before I increase? I am terrified that he might drop too low while I am out... but I don't want his body to get used to high numbers either.
 
I think I wouldn't assume that he would always have NDW, so I'd want to increase when I could monitor. If it were me, I'd probably wait til Wednesday night.

See what Sienne and Wendy think about it.

Sure hope your migraine goes away.
 
Looking at his SS, the first cycle after a increase seems to be quiet/NDW, but in one case (Jan 28), he did show some action on his second cycle after an incrcease. I don't think it would hurt to wait - he does occasionally see green on this dose.
 
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