4/18 Rocky PMPS 64 +1 64 +2 78 +3 99 +8 386

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tina & Rocky

Tina & Rocky

Member Since 2013
Good morning,

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=117384

Well, Rocky is starting the morning off at the races in British Green. I don't know what is going on. I think Rocky cleared yesterday's sky high bounce pretty fast. Unfortunately, his BG was still dropping at 8:00am this morning, one hour before his AM shot time. I fed him 1/2 can of the LC FF-CC and retested after 45 minutes. He had dropped another 10 points to 75. ohmygod_smile

Could it be that the "FAT" 2.0u is still too much insulin for Rocky? I'm not sure.

I then fed him another 1/2 can of the LC FF-CC. I'm going to stall the shot by 15 minutes to 1/2 hour.

At this point I'm not sure whether I should possibly even decrease his dose to a "straight" 2.0u.

Rocky's recap from yesterday:

AMPS 533 +2 432 +7 369 +11 375
PMPS 356 +2 277 +4 251 +9 122 +11 84 +11.75 75

Oh, and I am very sick.. I have true food allergies. I think there is something I am eating that is causing me to have these never ending migraine headaches and hives all over my face, but I'm sure that a sleep deprivation isn't helping me any either. But I also feel very flu-like.

***UPDATE***

I feel super uneasy about giving him any shot while his BG is still dropping 10 points every 15 minutes, even after I have fed him 1/2 can of LC FF-CC at every drop. I'm not even sure that delaying the shot by one hour will help ease my fears. I feel like if he gets too much insulin this time that I might not be able to get it to rise up again. nailbite_smile BUT-- I could be way off the mark on this.

When he was in the those 40s for those 3 hours the other day it seemed like the food was barely helping him to maintain the 40s.

I want to see that BG at LEAST to 80 by 10am, if I'm going to stall the shot until that time. That would set us back to a 10am shot time again.
 
Re: 4/18 Rocky AMBG ??- stalling shot

Tina,

I don't think you need to stall his shot. I might have had he been at 30 but 75 really isn't too concerning. You could still shoot him, and just make sure you are data ready to check him more often throughout the day. I also don't think that the previous night on 4/16 should be considered a "bounce." You didn't give him any insulin, so of course he reacted that way. Personally, I would have gone ahead and given the shot on 4/16 but just reduced it by .25 units. Especially once you notice just two hours later he was back up to 105. Not having that insulin just freaked his system out. He was still recovering the next morning and all through the rest of that day and it looks like the 84 this morning is him finally getting back to where he is happy, or tapping into his depo. If you prolong the shot much more today, or don't give it at all, he could go crazy again. I would shoot the 2.00 units and just monitor him. Make sure he's acting fine, and have plenty of test supplies to get some good readings.
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

How long ago did you last feed him? And do you feel up to monitoring him all day?
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

Hi Melanie,

The situation is that Rocky's BG is continuing to drop even with giving him the LC food intervention every 15 minutes. I was thinking that I might see at least a *slight* elevation in his BG. Instead, he continues to drop about 10 points every 15 minutes.

I'm not sure I should add more insulin to the fire.

I do agree with you though that his system was probably freaking out yesterday because he did not get that AM shot yesterday.

I definitely would have given him the shot if his BG had gone up even slightly after feeding him the LC food. If you look at his chart it appears that he might have been surfing some blue numbers overnight and now his system has decided to go into the greens. Rocky has a history of DIVING HARD once he hits the greens.
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

Have you tried more of a higher carb food, just a tablespoon, to see if that can't boost him back up? I understand your uneasiness with giving the insulin, and you know Rocky best, perhaps you could lower his dose even a bit more.
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

Nikki, yes, I can be home to feed him all day.. however, he stops eating when he is full.. I don't know how much more he is willing to eat after already devouring (1) + 1/2 can of the FF Classic Chicken. That's about 5 and 1/2 ounces of food. BTW- I have not added Karo to any of these food interventions. I wish I would have done that now.. :YMSIGH:
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

You don't need to add karo unless he is below 50. When stalling you don't want to feed as that can artificially elevate BGs. At this point I'd either skip or shoot a reduced dose and start fresh tonight. You need to find a dose you can shoot 2x per day. I started off shooting skinny/fat doses and was shown the error in my ways (Thanks Marje! :-D ). Unless you have calipers, it isn't easy to keep the dosing consistent. I'd suggest starting with the 2u tonight and then following the TR protocol by raising /lowering by .25u depending on where his numbers are.

Edited to add: I'm not encouraging you not to shoot low, but I'm at work and can't stay on to help, so in this case it might not be the best option.
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

Nikki, his BG is finally back up to 72.. Whew.. Yes, I think this number is food influenced. However, I don't want to skip his shot now that he has shown me he can go back up.

I'm going to give him a decreased dose this morning, reduced to 2.0u. He had a "fat" 2.0u last night.

It wasn't working for Rocky to do those straight shots. He was staying in pink numbers for too long. I am trying to fine tune his dose. This may not work either, of course. :roll: It may end up that 2.0u is not enough insulin, however, I'm not feeling well and I don't feel comfortable shooting a fat 2.0u this morning.

I will raise him back up to the "fat" 2.0u ASAP if he doesn't see and stay in greens with the straight 2.0u.

I will re-test right now, and then give him the shot.
 
Re: BG dropping fast! 4/18 Rocky AMBG ☛66- stall or SKIP sho

A couple of things to keep in mind...

There is a 20% variance in numbers in any test. So the difference between the 84 and the 66 is within that variance. Rather than feeding at the 84, stalling and not feeding may have been a better idea. Generally, unless your kitty's numbers are below 50, you don't feed prior to shooting. Many of us will routinely shoot numbers in the 50s but you must be data ready and able to monitor when you do so.

I would refer you to the section on shooting low in the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky. In most cases, you want to shoot. Right now, you're getting into a pattern of shooting, getting a lower number at pre-shot, skipping, and the cycle repeats. It's better to see flatter curves. If you feel like this is becoming too much of a pattern, rather than being in a position to routinely skip shots, it may be best to lower the dose. It may be that you'll see temporarily higher numbers and need to increase the dose but you won't be playing ping pong with Rocky's numbers.
 
Re: BG still going DOWN ☟ 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62

Well, I just gave Rocky a decreased dose of a "straight" 2.0u, even though his BG continues to go down. His shot was one hour late.

It would be awesome if his pancreas would suddenly recognize the LC food. I think everyone that reads my condo knows that he's on a strictly 0% carb diet right now eating almost exclusively Nature's Variety Instinct Canned Venison. He only gets the Fancy Feast Classic Chicken with 4% carbs if he gets between 55-50.

I should probably put my clothes on just in case I have to take him to the ER.

BTW-- I fed him the LC food at PMPS +9 last night when his BG was at 122. His BG STILL dropped to 84 by PMPS +11. I fed him at PMPS +9 because I wanted a blue number for his AM shot.
 
Re: BG still going DOWN ☟ 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62

I hope you don't need to go to the ER. The times I shot low Max surfed. I hope Rocky does too.
 
Re: BG still going DOWN ☟ 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62 +1 55

Elise I am probably just over reacting this morning because of the four hours that Rocky spent in the 40s the day before yesterday. I had to keep feeding him to help his BG go back up. However, we also have to remember that we are using BG monitors designed for humans, so IDK, maybe a 40 surf is not that bad IRL.

I don't like giving an insulin shot with a DROPPING BG though. I wouldn't have minded giving the shot so much if Rocky would have been at the tail-end of a string of blue or green numbers. I would have felt more like he was leveling out.

But at the beginning of his green number drops, I don't know how low his BG might drop. That's what scares me about shooting when Rocky is at the beginning of his green numbers.

Rocky has only surfed the green numbers 2x since January 2014-- once on 4/05 and once on 4/10.. All of the other times, at different insulin doses, he has always needed the LC or HC food intervention.

And, I'm feeling cruddy today.

***UPDATE***

At AMPS +1, just fed Rocky (1)tsp measured of LL FF-CC with (1) measured smidgen of Karo syrup.
 
Re: BG still going DOWN ☟ 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62 +1 55

I'm not surprised. Not getting sleep does make us crazy. I hope he surfs nicely for you today and doesn't bounce.
 
Re: BG still going DOWN ☟ 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62 +1 55

Ha!! Rocky is probably going to bounce. Bouncing is Rocky's second favorite pastime. ;-) His first is eating. haha_smiley

I have been feeding Rocky LC FF-CC food since PMPS +9 this morning (6am), in an attempt to elevate his BG. It is now almost 11:30am. So far the food intervention does not appear to be working. That's why I was leery about giving even the decreased dose, one hour late. :?

***UPDATE***

At AMPS +2 Rocky's BG has gone down to 42. Just fed him (1)TBS of Friskies Country Style Dinner w/ (1) measured tsp of Karo syrup. This Friskies flavor is 11% carbs. I poured nearly half the can of gravy onto the tablespoon of food.
 
Re: 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62 +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53

Paws crossed Rocky's gonna surf for the rest of the day. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: A little higher would be nice though, 90's are as healing as the 50's.

A couple comments on what you've said today Tina. We do not like 40's surfs. Although they may be within the range of normal numbers, there is NO room for him to drop. That's why we encourage people to keep feeding and testing to get kitty into the 50's.

As for Rocky's dose, remember a quote from Carl a couple nights ago:
Don't ever assume that what works today will work just as well a day or a week from now. More importantly, don't ever assume that what failed last time will fail again tomorrow. Cats are not machines, they change day-to-day. Rocky is not the same kitty he was last week. 2.0 might work better this time around.
Click to expand...
As for shooting a dropping BG, that's something I have to do a lot. Even when Neko was on Lantus she liked to drop right into PS and sometimes a little after. Provided you have the data and experience, it's a great way to take advantage of the overlap between cycles. However, shooting a dropping low 50's is a different matter. And delaying today was absolutely the right thing to do. Sending healing vines, I hope you feel better soon.
 
Re: 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62 +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53

It looks like you've done a really nice job helping Rocky surf so far. I was terrified shooting the low numbers (and ended up skipping a couple of doses because I couldn't monitor), and Jersey sometimes dropped too low, too. The great news is that I was always able to manage her numbers with food, just like you've done with Rocky today. It's just super stressful on the bean! nailbite_smile

Come on, Rocky, surf it! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 4/18 Rocky AMPS 62 +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53

Just to comment on your post from yesterday - you're talking about acromegaly. i seriously doubt that Rocky has it or he wouldn't be doing as well as he is on 2ish units of insulin. we don't even suggest cats have anything going on until they pass about 6u doses.

glad to see you shot and he's surfing now. go rocky!
 
Re: Reducie 2nite? 4/18 Rocky AMPS +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53 +

Rocky's BG dropped from about 4am this morning until 12pm this afternoon at AMPS +3.. I was feeding him LC FF-CC the entire time w/ no Karo syrup. That was until he dropped to 42 at AMPS +2. When he got to 42 I gave him (1)tbs of the HC 11% carb food w/ (1) smidgen of Karo syrup. He's been surfing the green numbers ever since then.

For tonight's PM shot, we're a long 5 and 1/2 hours away,I am wondering if I am suppose to decrease his insulin dose?

Should it be a "straight" 1.75 tonight? Or, should I try a "FAT" 1.75? Or, do I keep it at the 2.0u? :roll:

Thank you!
 
Re: Reducie 2nite? 4/18 Rocky AMPS +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53 +

I have a couple of thoughts/comments:

You may want to reconsider the number of carbs you're feeding Rocky. Some cats actually do better when there are some carbs in their diet. It may be that you're seeing these wide swings due to the lack of carbs.

FWIW, 11% is not HC. It's MC. LC = less than 10%; HC is over 15% and MC is in between. You may be struggling with getting the numbers up because you're not really giving Rocky HC food.

I think the numbers today are due to two things. First, it is likely due to the depot not yet having caught up with the dose reduction. More importantly though, given that you were so concerned about low numbers, shaving the dose may not have been the best strategy. Rocky is still new to FD. Given your concerns about the lows, it may have been best to stick with the protocol and reduce his dose by 0.25u (vs. shaving).
 
Re: Reducie 2nite? 4/18 Rocky AMPS +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53 +

well . . . tonight is a long ways off, as you said. perhaps he'll be HI by then.

my first thought is that you DID reduce him this morning, plus you delayed his shot, which drains the depot a little and acts like a small bit of a reduction. The change in dose this morning, however wouldn't have prevented the 40's today. With larger doses in the previous days, the depot from those past shots would still be influencing today's numbers.

He's also had a different dose for the past 5 shots. It's hard to say what to do with that in the picture.

i think the question is what do you want? i keep thinking of the mantra "shoot low to stay low." Yesterday's condo i went over the different reduction options. Why don't you reread them and see what you think? Ultimately, this is your choice.

my gut reaction at this point would be to give the shot you gave this morning and try to hold the dose steady for a while. If he's lower than usual and doesn't bounce, I'd shoot everything over 50ish. You've been hoping for him to stay in green numbers and if by chance, he's there tonight, that might be your opportunity.
 
Re: Reducie 2nite? 4/18 Rocky AMPS +1 55 +2 42 +3 50 +4 53 +

Thank you Sienna and Julie for your comments and suggestions. Let's see how high Rocky's BG goes by his PMPS. If he is in the 100s - 300s I will probably shoot the "straight" 2.0, again. I don't think he'll be in the 50s again, by his PMPS shot time.

Sienna, I searched my pantry and found a few cans of the Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health Formula. Dr. Lisa's chart says it has 15% carbs based on dry matter. Maybe next time he drops into the 40s I can give him just a tiny amount of that HC food.

Wendy I agree with you that surfing the 100s would be just great and I would feel safer with that than surfing the green numbers, right now anyway.
 
Re: shot a dropping BG 4/18 Rocky AMPS +11 94 --> PMPS 64

Pleasantly surprised that Rocky did not make it back to the 100s by his PMPS, however, I did not want to see that drop in BG from 94 to 64..

Wishing now that I would have fed him at least some LC or even MC for his first evening mini-meal instead of his regular 0% carb food. I'll re-test in a few minutes. If he's dropped even lower I might even consider giving him (1)tbs of MC Friskies.

***UPDATE***

At PMPS + 12.5 just fed Rocky (1)TBS MC Friskies Country Style Dinner + (1) smidgen Karo syrup as his BG went down 10 points to 53 in only 1/2 hour after his PMPS shot.
 
Re: 4/18 Rocky PMPS 64 +1 64 +2 78 +3 99

Do you think maybe you are working to hard to keep his BG up? Do you think maybe he needs less insulin? I think he might be turning the corner and need less and less. Of course what I think is usually wrong. Let's see what Julie or Marje say. I look at what happened with Freddie and Jersey and wonder if the same "MIGHT" be happening with Rocky. I hope I am right.

You are lucky he will eat Instinct. Max would not touch it in any flavor. He gets the junk food but at least he will eat it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top