4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334|PMPS 425|+2 347|+4 349

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linda and guinness

linda and guinness

Member Since 2009
I'm starting to get discouraged with these continual large numbers. I wish I knew what was going on with him, what pulled him out of remission and why he won't respond to the insulin. From my perspective, he's just not responding at all. Last time we were here, he responded beautifully. I'm starting to feel like this time I may not be able to fix it and that makes me sad. He's acting "crazy" hungry, gulping his food down in about 30 seconds and then meowing for more. I'm going to try and get his Prozac script filled today or tomorrow.
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

Hi Linda and Guinness.

What a great cat name...Guinness!

I am sorry you are getting discouraged as I know these kind of numbers going on for days is worrisome. I haven't been around much, but have seen on your SS there was a dental done. Did they do any other bloodwork as well?

Again, not a dosing expert, but I thought I recalled reading in the Tilly Protocol something about high numbers and raising dose...and I am only putting this out there as you've been here before and you are able to test and respond quickly if need be.

Phase Two

Most cats need to have their dose increased. Do it in 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU steps (0.25 IU if the cat is getting a low dose and/or relatively low BGs, 0.5 IU if the cat is getting a higher dose and/or relatively high BGs). Hold each dose for 5-7 days. However, if the cat is producing continuously high BGs (nadir always >=300 mg/dl), only hold the dose for 2-3 days before increasing it by 0.5 IU.

http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

I completely understand how you're feeling right now. I, too, wonder how come I'm seeing no improvements AT ALL. Champ's numbers aren't as high as your Guinness', but pretty close, and there never seems to be a "good day," I'm sure it has to be harder on you, though, because you had him off insulin altogether and then, wham, back on the juice. Keep your chin up. You put FD in its place once, you can do it again!! I'm going to check in every day to see how Guinesss is doing and I'll say a pray for both of you.
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

Thanks for the info. He had a full workup done prior to the dental. No infection, slightly elevated T4 and free T4 indicating possible, but not confirmed hyper-thyroid. Vet wanted me to start on 2.0u, but last time I was here I started him that high and his numbers went crazy. So I dropped it down to 1.0 and he responded quickly. I'm now wondering if that first time around, my crazy dosing in the beginning is what popped him out of insulin resistence and got him moving.

Thank you for the info on the Tilly Protocol, I hadn't seen that. I've been thinking I need to bump up his dose again and will go up to 2.0u tonight and then if there is no response in the next couple of days I will make a larger bump to 2.5u (unless I get some more feedback here about why I shouldn't). I can't believe I'm up to 2.0 already when last time it seems like such a huge amount of insulin.

I'm trying not to get discouraged, but having no definitive answer on why we are back and why he won't respond is so frustrating for me. I can't fix it if I don't know what it is. :sad:
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

linda and guinness said:
Thank you for the info on the Tilly Protocol, I hadn't seen that. I've been thinking I need to bump up his dose again and will go up to 2.0u tonight and then if there is no response in the next couple of days I will make a larger bump to 2.5u (unless I get some more feedback here about why I shouldn't). I can't believe I'm up to 2.0 already when last time it seems like such a huge amount of insulin.
Click to expand...

The caution using that section of the protocol is if Guinness drops down out of the 300's, then you will need to lower the dose increases back to 0.25 and hold them longer. It is not a widely used section of the protocol and for the most part isn't widely advocated. As my post to you though indicated...you've been through this before and have the experience.

I am sure some wiser voices will chime in here too with their thoughts.
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

Linda, Being here a long time, I have come to know that what we need to survive here is patience & consistancy..Please read the stickys again, there could be a message in there for you--I am sorry he is back on the juice. Moonie who has been pretty consistant, just had her numbers go up also--She has never been in remission, but I realize she is a lifer..and that's OK, as long as she is well.

What I wanted to say to you is that you need to hold the dose more than a couple of days for a good result.
I am around during the day, so I usually raise her dose in the am, but do whatever works for you...
I would try the 2.0U and see if that makes a difference, but be there to monitor..You know this
Sugar Dance is not easy, and at times so frustrating, but just have Hope, & Guiness will come down--Moonie also gulps down food & water, not like she used to..
Hope you get some success with a dose increase--We have several dose helpers here--Maybe consult with one?
Good luck today--Guinness-Please come down!!
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

((Linda))
Don't try to compare Guinness' experience the last time with this. It's like saying that the last time you had the flu you aren't as sick as you are this time. It's two separate things. If Guinness really needed that dental, it may have been what threw him out of remission. There's no way of knowing.

The other thing that may be even more important to remember is that you aren't leading this dance - Guinness is. We just get to follow along.

Beth (Blue) is correct. With nadirs over 300 you can be more aggressive with dosing. You can raise the dose as quickly as every 4 cycles and you can increase by as much as 0.5u.
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

I probably can't increase (.5u) his dose until the weekend. It's the only time, aside from Wednesdays that I'm around to monitor closely. I will bump it up .25u again tonight (I'll be home to take a +3 to +6) and then see what happens.

I know I have to be patient, but I feel like the clock is ticking and if I can't figure out what is happening, he's going to start to decline. Lose weight, get ketotacidosis, explode in front of my eyes like a Jack Bauer bomb I can't disarm. Plus, I'm a huge control freak and it's really hard for me to let go of control. I'm working on it, but when it's about something so close to my heart it's harder.

Thank you all for the kind thoughts. I will go back and re=read the stickies and see if there is something I'm missing. We have a follow up vet appointment next Wednesday so I want to be prepared with questions and possible treatment plans to move forward.
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396...getting discouraged.

no wisdom, just hugs. it's hard. at some point when you increase the dose you'll hit the sweet spot and he'll start to respond. his numbers will go down, he'll act more like himself. i'm amazed at what a difference a teeny tiny bit of insulin can make. hang in there!
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334

I know I have to be patient, but I feel like the clock is ticking and if I can't figure out what is happening, he's going to start to decline. Lose weight, get ketotacidosis, explode in front of my eyes like a Jack Bauer bomb I can't disarm. Plus, I'm a huge control freak and it's really hard for me to let go of control. I'm working on it, but when it's about something so close to my heart it's harder.
Click to expand...

OMG!!! I seriously think you're my identical twin!! I've always been a control freak and I think that's why it's so hard for people like us. We like to have everything in its place, doing what it's supposed to be doing at the time it's supposed to be doing it. FD completely messes that up!!! It's nice to know I have a kindred spirit here, though I feel for you!
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334|PMPS 425 Shot 2.0u

So he was flippin' high AGAIN at his PM shot. 425! ugh! I raised his dose to 2.0u and will monitor +2, +4, +5. I will better be able to monitor this weekend in case of another increase. Where or where is your sweet spot Guinness?

New freaky thing...he's clicking when he walks. I can't tell if it's a back leg/foot or front, but it's a definite "click". I stopped giving him his glucosumine about a week agao because I read online it can interfere with BG readings, maybe it has something to do with that...or maybe he's just falling apart like we all do as we age ;-)

Is there a prize for the highest number on the board today?
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334|PMPS 425 Shot 2.0u

hi linda. sorry about the high numbers.
hope you've had a chance to search cassandra and sasha's posts for hyper-t information. cassandra is one of the hyper-t experts on the board. wish she had time to post these days.

sounds to me like all of guiness' symptoms *could* be related to untreated hyper-t. glad you'll be following up with the vet.
in the mean time, all you can do is hang in there. increase the dose per the guidelines in the TR protocol. it's usually a lot more difficult to get a kitty back to the Falls the second time. we've been working on our third trip back to the Falls for a year now...
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334|PMPS 425 Shot 2.0u

Hi Linda,
Lots of people "click" when they walk, too!! I would make a list of all of your observations so that when you see your vet you will have them all in one place. I just want to second the remarks that have been made about patience, consistency, etc. I think you mentioned somewhere here the other day that you were using the same meter you used 3 years ago, before Guinness went Otj. Are you still using the same strips from that time? If so, they may be a factor in your bg readings. They do expire, especially if the box has been opened. Also, you should change the battery in the meter even if the "low battery" light isn't on. You never know! Just a thought.
Hang in there,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334|PMPS 425 Shot 2.0u

Thanks Ella, the battery thing in the meter did cross my mind. I will change it tonight. The strips I have been using are brand new (at least I just bought them from the store). I did double check my BG reading to see if the meter was accurate, also I checked the meter again my vets Alpha Trak and their blood test and all were high (300 to 400), so it's probably not the battery, but it doesn't hurt to change it.
 
Re: 4/14 Guinness AMPS 396|+2.5 334|PMPS 425|+2 347

I guess I really didn't want him to drop too low after the 2.0u, cause he'd probably just bounce tomorrow. I just wish we could see some yellow at least.
 
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