4/14/11

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Angela&Henry

Angela&Henry

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Henry is in the 300's this morning after yesterday's low numbers and no PM shot. However, it is probably not going to be a good day; I just gave him his shot and the needle did not go through the skin to other side but either the needle slipped out some while I was injecting or it was defective, insulin on fur on side I shot, think he got some but not sure how much..sigh. What a morning for this to happen, never have done a "fur shot".
AMPS was 368.
 
Darn! Join the club everyone belongs to, Angela. The nice thing about PZI is that it shouldn't put you back too far. Breathe, Angela, breathe.
 
Darn on the shot!

Don't feel too bad-- I shot my first fur shot two weeks ago on a 540 reading!
 
Thanks for the support it just is frustrating.
I won't be here for his +4 maybe for +6 but DH will check him.
Hope his numbers won't be too horrible.
 
Dang about the shot, but, like you're hearing, we've all done it. Paws crossed today is ok for you.
 
hey angela...has the idea already come and gone to lower the amps dose so you can have a shootable pmps? last night was great in it's own way...but not shootable.
 
No it hasn't come and gone. I think I had it a** backwards in my brain, so the 1.75 would be in the AM? to try to keep him shootable in the PM? I had it in my brain it would be 2U in AM and 1.75 U at PM because hes always lower for PM shot. No, I will try whatever it takes to see if his AM number will go down and able to get his shots BID.

Just refresh my brain, I hear different approaches from different people and get mixed up sometimes. (fibro fog)

Tonight I am sure he will be plenty high enough for 2U since no shot last night and fur shot this morning.
I expected him to be much higher than 368 this morning since he had no insulin last night, but thanks to me, he got a fur shot for the first time ever.

Again, his AMPS was 3.68 2U (fur shot think he got none)
+4 398
+6 376
+8 335
 
i don't think your mixed up angela...i think joanna and i are maybe approaching it differently. there's more than one way to...OH MY GOD! DID I JUST ALMOST SAY THAT! all kidding aside...i 'think' that joanna meant what you said...and i mean something else.
 
Yeah, no fog. Or if there's fog, we're foggy too! :lol:

Interesting the AMPS was better than usual and no shot last night. Hmmmm.

If you want to stick with 12/12 and have shootable #s you would want to lower the dose in the AM shot. Then in theory you would want a higher dose in the PM shot to give you better duration going into the AMPS. HOWEVER I am not advocating that: lower doses in the AM won't give you a good enough nadir IMO and higher doses in the PM you need more night-time data to know if that is safe.

That's where I was thinking the timing change might help. I don't know what the doses would be on that, I think you would have to try some things and see how it goes. A variation would be to make your PMPS time later, rather than giving the AM shot earlier. Still would achieve shortening up that PM cycle so hopefully that would leave your AMPS a more manageable number.

B/c I'm thinking pretty much everything you've done thus far is keeping the AM dose on the low side to get a shootable PMPS? That's what we originally suggested to get you off SID and onto BID, only I think we all have gotten thrown for a loop by the difference in his AM & PM PSs. So I guess that's where I balk at lowering the AM dose, I am worried that will just leave him sitting a little on the high side like he has been so far.

Anyhow, yes, there are different approaches, so just my foggy 2c :-D Lori & I agreed long ago to disagree every now & then, so no worries!
 
agreeable diasagement! the world would be a better place!
well, the fact that the lower amps after no shot plus the long duration last night indicated sputtering pancreas soooooo, while the nadir may not be low enough with a lower dose to even out the day....the lack of bounce and the bodies ability to count of a steady dose of just enuf but not too much is the longer way to the goal. but to me the gentler way.
does ANY of that make sense?
 
Ooooh oooh I think I hear "Lev speak"! :mrgreen:

I hear you, but that was not my experience on PZI. Whenever I let Bix ride gently in moderate #s his insulin needs tended to go up, and he tended to have lingering symptoms. When I kept him in high green #s, his insulin needs tended to go down and symptoms diminish. I'm pretty much a fan of the quick route, being as aggressive as one can tolerate to get them surfing in greens as much of the time as possible (without crossing over into the borderline hypo zone, I'm not a fan of those rides in the 40s!!!). One's lifestyle and stress level permitting.
 
Yes what both of you said makes sense.
I tend to be a little afraid of the 2U dose for PM shot when hes barely 200 or a little below usually thats when I back off say .25 on the dose, however I know it possibly would make the AM BG lower.
I am kind of wondering if the idea of holding off on the PM shot say until an hour later would give some more downward movement in the AM by keeping AM shot time the same and maybe allow him to get a higher PM pre shot thats shootable for a consistent dose?
I was really surprised with no shot last night he was 368 this morning and I really thought he would shoot up even higher than he did today.
I think both approaches could work for him. I don't think its good for him to drop to 76 at +4 from low 400's and a more even keel is better but I don't like it when he sits in 300's all day.
Like I said before, when I first started giving him insulin when we started at BID he never saw a lot of movement and seemed increasing his dose after several cycles on vets advice resulted in him being in upper 300's and 400's at nadir and mid to high 500's at AM pre shot and upper 400's to 500's PM pre shot. He didn't move and then seemed each increase made it worse. It totally makes no sense to me that when vet had me switch to SID dosing he got better nadirs and pre shots and when checked at +11 or +12 he still was lower than when we first started BID.
After the fur shot disaster today, his PMPS was 355. and since he's been without insulin for over 24 hours I gave 2U at usual time.
 
I haven't noticed any increase of symptoms of excessive peeing or drinking today and hes eaten normally and played.
I really don't know what happened this morning if syringe slipped out slightly before I injected or what I'm very careful usually.
I think I may have to take him in to vet for them to shave a little spot on him, his hair is long, hes also gained back a little of the weight of the 5 lbs he had lost at diagnosis so its not as easy to get as much loose skin to "tent".
 
FWIW, I like Joanna's idea of shooting later at night when he moves up enough to shoot, making your amps earlier and we would hope, lower. (the only caveat being sure it is definitely heading up). Guess you could be looking at a +14 and then +10 or something
like that?

Has anyone tried that before? We have a couple people with this issue - high amps and low pmps. Would be great if it works.
 
i for one am very interested in how well he's doing with no insulin for 24 hours (or nearly none) and the long duration last night.
suppose you decided to not lower dose..we still did not find a comfortable shootable number last night even at +14...
i think his entire regimen needs to be adjusted to the latest turn of events and i remain in favor of lowering dose...
however i shall happily go along with my 'collegues' if there opinion as a group differs. which it does :mrgreen:
 
i think your +14 was like 132 right?
and i jsut went to SS...were is today?
 
:lol: Joanna I just read your post to me. Your so right! I have drunk the koolaide...I do sound soooo Lev. And that is such a 180 from the aggressive approach I always liked before.
OH NO>....what has happened to me? Is it not possible to shoot one insulin and think another? Can an english speaking person think in english and speak french????
 
Sorry, I was in such a dither yesterday about the fur shot and was out in the afternoon that I forgot to update his SS.
He was 355 last night at PMPS and had 2U. I just wanted to get some insulin in him without fiddling with adjusting dose.
Starting a new thread for today (Friday).
 
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