4/13 Rusty PMPS 209, +4.5 224

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Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Member Since 2010
yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68542

Good Morning Everyone,

Keeping Carolyn in our thoughts this morning and grieving with her.

Rusty slept well last night. He was so exhausted from his day at the vet's. He ate about 2/3rds of the large dish of food I put out for him when we went to bed, and I believe he ate most, if not all, of it then. This morning he looked tired. We had our test (bg 258 yikes! it must be a bounce from the 64 last night--this pancreatitis has put Rusty on a roller coaster). We had our shot. He didn't want to come to the kitchen for breakfast, so I made up a small dish of FF T&G, mixed a lot of water into it, and brought it to him while he was still on a cushion on the coffee table. He ate it all and then came into the kitchen for his breakfast (Wellness Turkey, By Nature Turkey, and FF T&G--whatever works!). He's eaten about half of it (all of the FF T&G), maybe a bit more. Now he's on his cushion by the radiator.

I will call the vet this morning and arrange to get a prescription for bupe. I want to make sure he isn't in pain. I joined the Yahoo feline pancreatitis group and will do some reading there this morning.

Thank you again, everyone, for your thoughts and your help.

Sending lots of healing vines today to the other kitties and beans not feeling well,

Ella & Rusty

BigMac--this is your pal Rusty writing and I just want to tell you how much you mean to me. I will always honor your memory. You are the best. Be well at the Bridge until we meet again,
Rusty
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Great to hear that you all got some rest last night! Pancreatitis does put them on a BG roller coaster. I hope you get some pain meds from the vet today. That should help the poor guy. I'm glad you joined the Yahoo group. It really helped us out last year when we went through it. Hugs to you Ella and scritches to Rusty! Healing vines and snowflakes sent for his tummy!!
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Ella, sending some healing vines for your sweet boy. I bet he will feel better when he gets some Bupe. Yay for the FF T&G and Rusty eating! I havn't tried the new one yet and hope the flavor isn't too much different.
Hugs and scritches from us to you and Rusty.
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

I hope Rusty is feeling better soon! Thank goodness for LL. The information you've gotten is amazing. :-D
Liz
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

I hope Rusty has a good day today, Ella, and that, with the vet's help, he will soon be feeling much better.
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Morning Ella! and Edward and Rusty!

Ouch on the amps, but with reason I think. He will come back down. Good idea on getting the bupe for Rusty - I have read that pancreatitis can be painful, even if it is a mile case. The bupe is very easy to administer. I had that for BJ when she was sick. I hope he feels better soon - sounds like he is. I am ever so glad that you got him to the vet before it became worse. Your instincts were good.

Enjoy your day today.

Rusty - we is coming!! I made you some chicken soup and stuff - hope that is OK. We will come ad stay with you today. It will be good, we can remember our departed friends. See you soon! ~ Mannie
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Is there a new FF T&G??? (you mentioned it in Rusty's condo this morning).
Click to expand...

Hi Ella, I remember something in Angela's condo on ingredients a while ago and you commenting on the ingredients being a little different. Angela was trying to get carbs, etc. However, I did buy some FF T&G at a grocery store recently, and it looks the same as far as ingredients.
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Morning y'all...hope Rusty will feel better and better as the day goes by....hugs to you all....
:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Hi there,

Rusty, please get better! I'm praying for you.

Thanks, Ella, for being so proactive with him.

Just a suggestion, you might want to mix the Merricks and the Wellness (maybe half and half). That will serve two purposes - he will probably like it and you will reduce the fat, but not increase the protein so rapidly. Then you can gradually increase the amount of Merricks.

Oh, a third benefit of mixing is that you can keep the calories up.

Keep me posted please.

Kisses to Rusty and hugs to Ella and Edward for the care you've given.

Claudia
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Claudia, so great to hear from you. I have been doing the mixing of his food all along, but I "mix" by putting them side-by-side in the same dish. Do you think it's better to really "mix" them together? Today he ate almost everything so far. I've been liberal with the Fancy Feast T&G because he loves it. (It tends to spike his bgs, so I usually serve it as a treat, but now, since he will always eat it with enthusiasm, I am letting him eat more of it).

Hi again, everyone, The vet has to be somewhere else this afternoon, but she left the Bupe in the office for us to pick up. I will be glad to get it. Rusty just ate some FF T&G for lunch and is lying on the crinkle sack his Auntie Linda gave him (it no longer "chirps"). He is all stretched out. Is that a pain reaction?

bbl,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258

Rusty...you have such wonderful beans :-D

It's interesting that you mention the "laying all stretched out".
Binks tends to do that when he feels bad...rather than curling up or meatloafing.
I wonder if Rusty is the same?

Hang in there Rusty- you'll get the best of care, and there is a Tsunami of healing coming your way from LL members!

celi & binks
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Hi again,
Rusty had a pretty good day today. He was more subdued than he usually is and slept a lot, but he ate, he used the lb, he went outside with me for about an hour this afternoon and we lounged in the sunshine, watching the birds, and he did some exploring of the chipmunk's doors. He ate FF T&G at every meal today, sometimes only T&G, sometimes along with one of the other foods. I just want him to eat and am happy that he loves T&G so much that he always eats all of it. I got the Bupe at the vet's office, but haven't had the courage to try it yet. The vet left instructions to give 2 cc (it's the liquid, to squirt into his cheek by syringe). Linda advised me yesterday to start low and go slow on the Bupe. What is low? I'm about to write to her, but would like to know what others of you have given your kitties. Also, how often do you give it?

I haven't been around the board much today because I've been busy reading about Pancreatitis and doing chores. Thanks to everyone for visiting.

Another question: Should I raise Rusty's dose to compensate for the higher bgs probably caused by Pancreatitis? Or should I hold it until the bounce from the 64 last night clears?

Sending thoughts of comfort to Carolyn and healing vines to Attie, DC, Sid, J.D., Rocket, and all kitties and beans who can use them,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Ella, you might want to put "bupe Q" in the subject line to get some attention. I'm glad to hear Rusty is doing better today. Hugs to you.
Liz
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
I got the Bupe at the vet's office, but haven't had the courage to try it yet. The vet left instructions to give 2 cc (it's the liquid, to squirt into his cheek by syringe). Linda advised me yesterday to start low and go slow on the Bupe. What is low? I'm about to write to her, but would like to know what others of you have given your kitties. Also, how often do you give it?
Ella & Rusty
Click to expand...

Bupe is dosed by weight and by duration of action. A higher dose will not give stronger pain control, but it will give a longer duration of pain control. A higher dose will, however, cause more sedation. In my experience, at the suggested dosage for his weight, Bear Man was a zombie. Bupe will typically be prescribed in 6 hour, 8 hour, or 12 hour dosages.

I think you said that Rusty was 17 pounds at the vet, and slightly under that at home. What is the concentration of your Bupe? A standard concentration is .3 mg/ml, but it does come in different strengths. Please check the label, as the concentration of your Bupe will affect the volume that you want to administer.

Your vet instructed you to give 2 cc (same as 2 ml). How often are you instructed to give it? In my opinion, that is way too high a dose, even for a heavy cat like Rusty. According to a chart my vet printed for me from VIN, if your Bupe is a concentration of .3 mg/ml, a 12 hour dose for a 17 pound cat would be .77 ml (that works out to 30 ug/kg). What often worked for me with my cats was to give a minimum (6 hour) dose and give it every 12 hours. For a 17 pound cat, at a Bupe concentration of .3 mg/ml, a 6 hour dose would be .26 ml (10 ug/kg) and an 8 hour dose would be .52 ml (20 ug/kg).

Since Rusty is not in severe pain, from your description of his demeanour, I would suggest that you consider starting with .5 ml, or even less than that, and observe his behaviour. You want to see him became more relaxed, but you do not want him so sedated that he is stumbling or sleeping too long and neglecting to eat. I think that even a dose like .25 ml would take the edge off. I would give it every 12 hours. See what others say, but I really would not give 2 ml, if the concentration is .3 mg/ml.
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi again,
The vet left instructions to give 2 cc (it's the liquid, to squirt into his cheek by syringe). Linda advised me yesterday to start low and go slow on the Bupe. What is low? I'm about to write to her, but would like to know what others of you have given your kitties. Also, how often do you give it?
Click to expand...

Do you mean 2cc (ml) or .2? Big difference!

I know there are different concentrations, but Latte received .2-.4ml. Hers was via injection.
Tippie had preloaded syringes for oral administration. Those were .1ml (she's a tiny thing).

With the oral, you aim slooooooowly squirt it inside their cheek, since it needs to be absorbed through the skin. Anything that is swallowed will not be effective.

I really preferred the shots, because I knew it was all getting in. But you take what you can get, and do your best.

Linda may be able to explain it better, but the difference in amount of bupe is not so much the pain relief, rather longevity.

So anyway, back to the clarification...2ml or .2ml?
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

edited to add:

I believe that there is now a sustained release formulation of Buprenorphine available (Buprenorphine SR). I don't have experience in using that, and my comments above pertain to standard Bupe, Not Bupe SR.
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

I hope that was .2ml as Carolyn suggested and not 2mls. .2 mls would be a nice, low end dose for him. 2 mls......I would be scared to think what would happen.

I've used the Bupe SR.....it is usually injected at the vet. I found the bupe that you give at home to be more effective especially because you can control when (every six hours or every 12) he gets it based on when he needs it.

Sending him many more healing vines today, Ella.
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Oh, thanks, guys, MY MISTAKE!! (the math cripple strikes again!). The Bupe concentration is 0.3 mg/ml. The vet's instructions were to give 1/2 cc once to twice a day. Is that the same as 0.2 ml? (The vet tech who gave me the Bupe because the vet wasn't in the office this afternoon must have said to give 0.2 ml and all I heard was the "2"! I really have a number phobia!) So I guess what I need to be absolutely sure of is: is 1/2 cc the same as 0.2 ml? The Monoject syringes the vet gave me hold 1 ml and are marked from 0.1 ml to 1.0.

THANK YOU THANK YOU!! Since Rusty sleeps all night through, I'm not going to start until tomorrow (if necessary).

Ella the math cripple (it's a good think I'm not studying medicine!)
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Oh, thanks, guys, MY MISTAKE!! (the math cripple strikes again!). The Bupe concentration is 0.3 mg/ml. The vet's instructions were to give 1/2 cc once to twice a day. Is that the same as 0.2 ml? (The vet tech who gave me the Bupe because the vet wasn't in the office this afternoon must have said to give 0.2 ml and all I heard was the "2"! I really have a number phobia!) So I guess what I need to be absolutely sure of is: is 1/2 cc the same as 0.2 ml? The Monoject syringes the vet gave me hold 1 ml and are marked from 0.1 ml to 1.0.

THANK YOU THANK YOU!! Since Rusty sleeps all night through, I'm not going to start until tomorrow (if necessary).

Ella the math cripple (it's a good think I'm not studying medicine!)
Click to expand...

1/2 cc = .5 cc = .5 ml.

.2 ml would be one fifth of 1 ml.

1 cc = 1 ml. A ml is the same as a cc.

I would suggest that you try .2 ml for the first dose. That would be one fifth of your 1 ml syringe. (Note .2 = 2/10ths = 1/5th).

Good idea to sleep on it and try it out in the morning.

Ella, I feel the same way about music that you feel about math :shock:
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

:lol: :lol:
I asked Binks..."what do you think, buddy- do you prefer math, or music?"

and he replied "Ummmm...I like meeting other cats." :roll:

Rest well, guys!
 
Re: 4/13 Rusty AMPS 258, +5.5 193, +9.5 143, PMPS 209

Hi Ella. Checkers has syringes, pre-filled with .1ML. I just looked. That would be for his spinal problem.
Only once did I have to give a consecutive dose, at 12 hours later
It works for Checkers within one hour. He kind of zones out, and sleeps for a couple of hours, then wakes and goes potty and looks for food.
The one instruction they are adamant about is keeping it in the dark. I store in a quilted cosmetic bag at room temp.

My doggie was quite sick with pancreatitis, but he recovered beautifully, and so will Rusty. :-D

I know yours isn't prefilled, but I found that the syringes stick, and then squirt, if not pulled back and 'worked' a bit, like the insulin syringes do. Then it goes smoothly into the cheek pouch, or sub lingual.


Hey Rusty, we're glad your mamabean is so alert to your feelings and got your diagnosis quickly. Yer gonna feel better mighty soon.
Don't tell your mom & dad I said this, but that medicine will make you feel reeeeeeal good. *wink* ;-)
Your Buddy, Checkers
 
I know I am late to the bupe math party, but I wanted to mention that Shadoe loved her bupe and it helped her a great deal. She was around 16lb.

Now Oliver was 33lb, and bupe was just too much for him; he became a drunken drooly sailor cat on even the smallest amount of bupe. ... funny, I could give Shadoe .2cc easy and she would be better and up and around, but Ollie could get as little as .02cc and be sprawled on the floor all loopy and glassy-eyed.
He may have been out to lunch but he was sure not feeling pain either.

I hope he's feeling alot better in the morn and the bupe gets rid of any pains he is having.
 
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