4/13 Floyd AMPS 228, +4 228, +7 150, +9 145, PMPS 156, +1 224

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Hi Janine,

Wendy is on the west coast so she's asleep now.
I haven't used R myself, but I would say that today is possibly not the best day, he is flat coming into PS, normally folk will use it when kitty is starting a bounce, that doesn't appear to be the case this morning.
 
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
That is very much an ECID thing. For some kitties 0.1u can send them into the cellar .

So the first step is experimenting to find out how your kitty reacts to R (onset, nadir, duration) starting with 0.1u.
Timing is very important - you want to shoot it as the bounce is beginning, making sure you have a 4-5 hour window and you can monitor every hour. If it is a non event, at the next opportunity you try .25u.
Care must be taken so that the R and L nadirs do not coincide and that you don't shoot R as a bounce is breaking.

We also recommend that you coordinate with someone who has R experience to hang out with you while you conduct your first few experiments.
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I just found this recommendation Sandy gave you, she has a lot of experience using R and Lantus.
I've highlighted the point that is important in this instance.
As Floyd is flat coming into his PS, it doesn't look like he is starting a bounce, there is a good chance that when Lantus onsets, you may w find you have an active cycle Lantus cycle on your hands in any case.

ETA Also you have only just taken the dose up with Lantus (only third dose today) and as the depot has not yet filled you have not seen the full effect of this new dose. (remember it can take up to 6 cycles before you see the effect of that). So using R when you don't yet know how low this lantus dose is going to take him is risky, especially as I don't think you have much data for how Floyd is going to respond to R, some kitties respond more aggressively than others.

as Wendy suggested in another post you were to find he was bouncing (by that I mean if he was heading up to pink) at +8 say it might be possible to use R then, and Wendy and Sandy should be about to advise you then.
 
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Gill & George said:
I just found this recommendation Sandy gave you, she has a lot of experience using R and Lantus.
I've highlighted the point that is important in this instance.
As Floyd is flat coming into his PS, it doesn't look like he is starting a bounce, there is a good chance that when Lantus onsets, you may w find you have an active cycle Lantus cycle on your hands in any case.

ETA Also you have only just taken the dose up with Lantus (only third dose today) and as the depot has not yet filled you have not seen the full effect of this new dose. (remember it can take up to 6 cycles before you see the effect of that). So using R when you don't yet know how low this lantus dose is going to take him is risky, especially as I don't think you have much data for how Floyd is going to respond to R, some kitties respond more aggressively than others.

as Wendy suggested in another post you were to find he was bouncing (by that I mean if he was heading up to pink) at +8 say it might be possible to use R then, and Wendy and Sandy should be about to advise you then.
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Thanks for the input, Gill. Although Floyd is flat now, he has the tendency to bounce up in response to any number close to normal, so I just want to be prepared. Also, today is a good day for me because I will be with him all day and this evening (of course, that means nothing to Floyd!!). But, you may be correct in that this cycle is too close to his last increase.

Sigh. I just don't know how to tell the full effect of any dose with him because all he does is bounce!

And with a +2 of 315, he may not even go low enough to bounce, so we'll have to wait and see.
 
Hi Janine. That +2 looks like a bit more than a food spike. If you grab another test and he is higher yet, then this could be a bounce starting. Just remember that you need to be able to monitor tonight's cycle as well if you use the R today.
 
Janine & Floyd said:
Thanks for the input, Gill. Although Floyd is flat now, he has the tendency to bounce up in response to any number close to normal, so I just want to be prepared. Also, today is a good day for me because I will be with him all day and this evening (of course, that means nothing to Floyd!!). But, you may be correct in that this cycle is too close to his last increase.
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You're welcome, I'm just sorry I couldn't be of more help this morning. I haven't been following Floyd closely to know his patterns well, so I am always going to err on the side of caution.

Janine & Floyd said:
Sigh. I just don't know how to tell the full effect of any dose with him because all he does is bounce!
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Ignore the bounces and look for how low the dose takes him. You are monitoring closely and have lots of data, so you should be able to see that. After 6 to 8 cycles you should have a fairly good idea. If he isn't seeing greens then it may be time to reassess and take the dose up.


Janine & Floyd said:
he may not even go low enough to bounce,
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What we have seen here with our FD kitties, is that it's not just going low that makes them bounce.

A visit into numbers that they are not used to, can make some cats bounce up into red. So for example some cats may bounce when they see high blues or even yellows, just because their bodies are not used to it. The body sees these ranges as dangerous, and that results in the liver ultimately dumping glucose into the bloodstream in an attempt to protect the kitty from those perceived 'dangerous lows'

A fast drop (and Floyd with his dramatic flair has a good number of these) can also trigger a bounce. So for example that near 200pt drop in two hours last night from 480 to 280 (+2 to+4) would have been enough to trigger a bounce.
The pink +2 might be the start of said bounce. It just wasn't clear what his intentions were this morning.

Trying to slow his fast drops using carbs, may, as Wendy talked about yesterday be key into trying to minimize his bouncing.

I imagine
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Janine. That +2 looks like a bit more than a food spike. If you grab another test and he is higher yet, then this could be a bounce starting. Just remember that you need to be able to monitor tonight's cycle as well if you use the R today.
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He's back down to 228, so maybe not bouncing quite yet, but I'll keep checking.

He's at work with me until PM shot time, then I'm home all night with him, so if the opportunity presents itself, I can use the R and monitor.
 
Gill & George said:
Sandy is also west coast
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She's actually east coast, but often keeps west coast hours. :p

I see blue on the SS. :cool: Let's see where Floyd goes next. If after +7 you see a sharp uptick in the numbers, that would be the time to try R again. I would try the same amount as last time. That previous experiment wasn't a good one for data gathering.

I'll be on and off today (off to an island where my folks live, but they have wireless).
 
Wendy&Neko said:
She's actually east coast, but often keeps west coast hours. :p

I see blue on the SS. :cool: Let's see where Floyd goes next. If after +7 you see a sharp uptick in the numbers, that would be the time to try R again. I would try the same amount as last time. That previous experiment wasn't a good one for data gathering.

I'll be on and off today (off to an island where my folks live, but they have wireless).
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At what point would to be too late to try the R? For example, on 4/8, he didn't start to go up until +11. If I shot R then, the PM cycle might get a little dicey, correct? So would a window of +7 to +9 be reasonable to still shoot the R, if the stars are aligned?

Have fun on the island!
 
R is very often given at preshot, so anytime up to and including then is fair game. The idea is to take down the numbers so Lantus has a lower number to work with when it onsets but not drop the numbers so much you cause a bounce. However, you have to be ready to monitor closely, for at least four hours after shooting R.
Janine & Floyd said:
Have fun on the island!
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Replacing range hood and pulling blackberry vines in the rain. Not my idea of fun. :rolleyes:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
R is very often given at preshot, so anytime up to and including then is fair game. The idea is to take down the numbers so Lantus has a lower number to work with when it onsets but not drop the numbers so much you cause a bounce. However, you have to be ready to monitor closely, for at least four hours after shooting R.
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Thanks for all your help. :D

Wendy&Neko said:
Replacing range hood and pulling blackberry vines in the rain. Not my idea of fun. :rolleyes:
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Sorry, you're right, that doesn't sound like fun. :blackeye: Have a productive day, then. ;)
 
Beenie (GA) said:
Wow look at Floyd go!! Nice cycle:cool:

R, I don’t need no stinkin’ R:p
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I guess not!!! Only because I was prepared and available. :rolleyes:

But I am liking these numbers. Maybe we'll see some green tonight, and I'll keep testing.

I have to share this because you are the only people who would understand. I am picking up my daughter from karate on my way home from work. It's PM +1 and I really wanted to test because his PMPS was so low.... so here I am with Floyd testing his BG in my van in the dojo parking lot. He's a very laid back kitty and used to traveling back and forth to work with me, so no problem there! !:joyful::cat:
 
One of our members in England used to tell of how she would go out into her courtyard and while her kitty laid among her flowers, she would test him. Yes, we do understand! :smuggrin: Glad to see that he had a decent cycle today. I hope he will slide down for you some tonight without any drama.
 
Curious to see where Floyd goes tonight. :cool:

Neko was flexible about where she was tested too. I did test her in our back yard if it was time. Also in the car on our road trip to CSU, though I did like the car to be stopped. She also got tested and her shot in the ferry line up more than once. Have diabetic cat, will travel. :)
 
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