4/12 Guinness AM476, +1.5/340, PM/447, +4.5/362

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linda and guinness

linda and guinness

Member Since 2009
I have a few questions about stress. First off one of the reasons I'm so eager to get Guinness cured of his possible hyper-T (unconfirmed at this point) is because his constant waking us up at 2am, 3am, 4am is driving us insane. It's really affecting our waking hours (especially my husband who is getting more and more frustrated due to the lack of sleep). For the last couple of nights we decided to lock Guinness in a room far away from our room. He's decked out in there with a bed, cat tree, water, litter boxes, etc., but Guinness has never met a closed door that he liked. He scratches and meows and we still hear it all night.

I've mentioned this meowing issue to our vet who initially laughed it off, but finally came up with the Prozac suggestion. She gave me a script for 1/4 pill of Prozac (true human Prozac, not amitryptiline,or other cat version), but I have yet to get it filled. I don't necessarily want to cover up any hyper-t symptoms and I don't want to negatively affect his diabetes treatment (although, she says it's perfectly safe for diabetic cats, but she's also the vet who gave him the antibiotic with sugar in it).

Now I know this 476 number could be a bounce from his increased dose last night (from 1.5u to 1.75u), but I'm wondering if stress could be a factor as well. Does anyone have any opinions or experience with Prozac for diabetic cats and do you think it would help to reduce his stress? Should I get the script filled and move forward with it or wait and see if it's truly hyper-t (that might be a 3 month+ wait and we might kill Guinness before that because of the constant meowing - I'm only kidding here, just frustrated - we are not going to kill the cat, please don't flame me)

I can only get a +1.5 this morning and then I have to run off to work. I will check the board while at work, but really can't get a decent curve on him today (I work tonight too). I have tomorrow off, so might be able to see how the new dose is truly affecting him then.
 
Re: 4/12 AMPS 476! Stress questions

I don't have experience with Prozac in cats. It's typically used for behavioral problems such as inappropriate elimination or possibly aggressive behavior that has not responded to other efforts. You might want to try a non-pharmacological intervention such as Feliway or Rescue Remedy first. What is Guinness meowing about at night?

Stress will elevate BG. A true stressor will cause catecholamines or stress hormones, such as cortisol, to be released. These corticosteroids are what increase BG levels.

(You might want to put Guinness' name in your subject line.)
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476! Stress questions

Hi Sienne,

Of yes, I've tried EVERYTHING. Feliway, Rescue Remedy, etc. Guinness has always been somewhat of a neurotic cat since he adopted us with his brother 11 years ago. He's always been slightly skittish, stressed and vocal. Since he's been diabetic (including his first round 2 years ago) he's been super vocal and always acts hungry. He follows me around meowing, tries to climb in the fridge when it's open, tries to steal food off the sink, table, or plates and meows during the night so we will wake up and feed him. If we close our bedroom door to keep him out, he scratches and scratches like he has OCD until we open the door, then he starts meowing. We've tried squirting him with water, feeding more at night to keep him fuller and now, locking in the room.

I knew that stress would increase his BG, but found it interesting that his numbers went down when at the vet recently. It's possible last nights seclusion increased his number, but it could be a bounce too. I don't know what he fell too before the +12, so I can't say for sure. I really want something to work for him now because we are all stressed out.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

At least it's going down! Drank some water. Will try and test for Ketones today...always a crap shoot. Sometimes he will pee on command, other times I have to follow him around with one of those sticks for an hour.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

My Smokey was first placed on Prozac for inappropriate urination 2 years ago. It has worked wonderfully for us and has no effect what so ever on his BG. He actually went into Diabetic remission for 6 months while still on the Prozac (I always thought him being more relaxed had something to do with that) and only recently came out due to steriod ear drops. I would not worry about it's effect on BG at all. I use the pill pockets (Duck formula) ones and break them in half and place the pill inside!

What is your kittys T-4 score regarding the [possible] Hyperthyroid Disease?
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

Guinness also urinates inappropriately all over our house, but since I recently got the SSSt cat, he's stopped in certain places (but I'm sure that's adding to his stress too). Thank you for the info re: Prozac. I think I will move forward and get that script filled. Here is the link to yesterday's condo. The first post shows the results of his T4 and Free T4 tests. The vet told me he was borderline:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=40957
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

when you said you've tried the Feliway, did that include the one that gets plugged in to constantly dispense? i don't have experience with it but had bought one by accident. i've used the spray and i swear have had no reaction from it. punkin also doesn't seem phased by 7 drops of Rescue Remedy either, so i don't have a solution to suggest.

we shut our cats downstairs (daylight basement) so it's plenty big enough and there are 2 of them. they still scratch sometimes, but it's tolerable. is Guinness alone if he's not with you, or is his brother there? if you think it's hunger related, could you use one of the timed dispensers and water down the food so it seems like more?
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

Julie,

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I've used both the spray and Feliway infuser, both have not worked with the crazy meowing issue. He's locked in the room alone, from about 10:30pm to 4:30am. There is no meal served at that time (they eat 4 times a day, just not during that time), so the feeder is not an option, although I do use one for when I am at work during the day, and I do water down their food. He gets the run of the house during the day and his brother is locked in a room alone with his feeder because if I keep them together, Guinness will eat his meal really fast and then shove his brother out of the way and eat his brother's meal too. So they have to be separated during the weekdays too. When they do eat next to each other, my husband or I have to stand over them for the whole meal and run interference to keep Guinness from stealing Harp's meal.

They are back together, with the run of the house, from about 2:30 to 10:30pm. Seriously, I have tried every option out there and am really at the end of my rope with the waking up meowing issue. If he's hyper-T, I'm ready to spend the money to have it resolved so that he feels better and we can feel better about him. If he's not hyper-T or if the Prozac will at least calm him down, I'm willing to try that too. But, my number one priority is to get his BG's under control, so that's why I wanted to find out about the interaction of Prozac and diabetes.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

i have no idea, but you could call a pharmacy and ask. i have a good friend who works as a cashier in a pharmacy and she says there are an incredible number of pets on antidepressants. a pharmacist could advise you, even if it is about a cat.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

Could Guinness just be very hungry? We've had this with Sooty, for a long time he would eat anything we put in front of him, all day and all night if we'd let him. He'd eat a portion of food and then start meowing again almost right away, asking for more. We were getting through way more than 25oz of food per day easily. With the FD preventing the body cells from using the nutriotion properly some cats just really are starving - all the time. The only answer is to feed them - a lot ! Forgive me if I am way off here but just my $0.02..
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

You might want to think about a timed feeder especially overnight. At least that way, you could leave food for Guinness and see if it curtailed the meowing.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

would guinness be more content if his brother was with him overnight? i guess if it were me, i might try the cats together (see if that helps him not be as anxious) and feed him more at night. if you're worried about his weight could you cut back during the day? i have only had 1 cat who was decent all the way through the night - otherwise my cats always make me insane starting around 4:30 or 5am.

what if you set a timed feeder to open at 4am or so?
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

Smokey's T-4 just tested 4.3 (1 year ago it was 2.5). That was the bloodwork that confirmed his diabetes had returned and the doctor said that 4.3 is, "In the grey area", so now I'm concerned with how high my number seems to Guinness'! He also stated that his BG of 477 at that same time and not having the Diabetes under control could effect the T-4 numbers. Have you heard of this? He wants to re-check him in 3 weeks.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

Answers to ideas:

Right now I feed him and his brother 4 times during the day. 4:30am (this is his am shot meal), 10:30am (using a feeder), 4:30pm (this is his pm shot meal) and 10:30pm (right before bed). This system has worked out well for us. Currently, I feed both cats 1/4 can of Merrick Cowboy Cookout at each feeding (1 full can, about 160 calories + numerous dried chicken treats sprinkled on top). I also serve 1/8 of a can of Before Grain something at their nighttime meal (so they get a little more to sleep on).

Guinness has been 16lbs since his diagnosis two years ago and I've always been told to get weight off of him, but no matter how little I feed him (and I've been careful not to cut his calories too quickly or drastically), he won't drop weight. He ALWAYS acts hungry.

Do you just think I should be feeding him more? If so, should I just add more food to his regular meal times or give him an extra meal in the middle of the night? Will that mess up my AMPS numbers? I usually shoot him as he starts eating, since he is distracted. This works very well for us and I don't want to change it.

Maybe I should just be adding more food to each feeding. My other cat seems to be doing well on the current amount of food at 13 lbs, the vet is happy with his weight and he doesn't whine for food.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

linda, in regard to feeding...
please check out the thread I just bumped: *** DISCUSSION: "FEED KITTY AS MUCH AS THEY WANT?" ***.

there's also a lot of good information on feline obesity on Dr. Lisa's site: Feline Obesity: An Epidemic of Fat Cats

if you search Cassandra and Sasha's posts, you'll find a treasure trove of information about hyper-t kitties.

as i understand it, T4 levels should lower as the cat ages, but read through cassandra's hyper-t posts for confirmation.

hope this helps...
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

Hi Linda

Just throwing out an option for dealing w/stress in a kitty.

Recently had a Vet Behavorist come to my home to help w/intercat aggression issues. One of my kitties was very anxious and skiddish after being attacked by my diabetic kitty, Curry, ...no excessive meowing or urinating. The Vet gave me a box of Anxitane S.....its a natural subtance that helps w/anxiety in pets. I give her 1/2 pill twice daily that is crushed up in low sodium tuna juice w/water. I will heat it for about 5 secs in the microwave to help dissolve the crushed pill. I have noticed over time that Sidney is more relaxed. You don't need a prescription for it. I don't know if this an answer for you and your kitties issues, but I'm very impressive w/the stuff.

Here's a link to Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Virbac-Anxitane-3 ... 186&sr=8-3
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340 Stress questions

this may be in no way applicable to your situation, but when Binks and i relocated to boise, we inherited my sister's two cats who had basically been abandoned...

the skittish one, Annie...would whine, cry, scratch, door-drum..you name it, she did it at night.
i tried all sorts of things, but what finally turned her around was the night i was too tired to deal with it...
coaxed her up on the bed, and turns out sleeping next to me solved the problem.
She purrs in her sleep, and reaches out periodically in the night to make sure I'm still there...but she sleeps through the night now.
It means Binks won't sleep in the bedroom...but it's a tradeoff i was willing (barely) to make.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340, PMPS 447...ugh!

Wow, high again. I fed him a tad more food than normal tonight, but when I originally came up with his diet plan 2 years ago, I crunched number based on Dr. Lisa's advice and came up with what we were doing. He ALWAYS acted hungry, even while regulated, so I don't want to start feeding him a BUNCH more food.

Thank you all for the thoughts and advice about his waking and meowing problem. I seriously have tried just about everything I can think of, letting him sleep with me, feeding him later, feeding him more at night. I think I may have to try the Prozac and see if that helps calm him down any.
 
Re: 4/12 Guinness AMPS 476, +1.5 340, PMPS 447...ugh!

Hi Linda - I can't help with any of this, just haven't had to deal with it. But I did want to wish you luck, and really hope that maybe some of the solutions offered will help. Good Luck!
 
:-D :-D yeah, I think I can promise that. It may not be tomorrow, but soon. It sometimes takes a little bit of time to find the right dose. I often wondered if it would ever happen for us, but it did. Mannie sure isn't the perfect example, but wow - way back when we were 300-500 all the time.
 
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