4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +9 341, +11 328, PMPS 323

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Patty & Champ

Patty & Champ

Member Since 2011
yesterday

Not thrilled with today's beginning number. And I know this was without food since 10 pm because he ate a really big dinner (ate 2 oz., wanted more, ate 1 oz., wanted more, ate 1 oz.). I put out less than 1 oz. at about 10 and it was untouched this morning. I guess I'll just have to see where this is going to lead us today.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

How much time must I wait from the time Champ eats his breakfast or dinner to when I shoot? His vet said to wait ten minutes, but there have been times (usually) when I just need to get back to work and I don't wait a full ten minutes. What's the rule here?
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

Good morning! Hope Champ gets out of the stinkus pinkus soon!!

You don't need to space the feeding and shot... many people here shoot while their cat is eating. Willie gets his meds on my lap and then immediately eats. :smile:

have a great day!
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

Thanks Christie! Good morning to you!

I have one more question, if anyone can answer... what does a "bounce" mean? What causes it, what do you do when it happens, how long does it last, etc.??
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

A bounce is when BG numbers go up after a cat has been lower than it is used too. The liver can produce glucose in times of stress and dump it in the bloodstream, part of the fight or flight response. Cats have a real tendency for this. Eventually the liver will start to recognize the lower levels as normal an stop panicking. We call this process Liver Training School (LTS). There are some cats (who shall remain nameless) who are in remedial classes! confused_cat
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

Thanks, Ann. I sure wish we could have some lower than usual numbers so we could worry about a bounce!!
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

Hi Patty. Just stopping in to say "hello". I also shoot immediately after Checks eats.....or when I can catch him. :lol:
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

Morning Patty! I too give Mannie his shot while he is eating. There is no need to wait. It works really well for us - he's preoccupied, never really realizes that he got his meds. And yes on what Ann wrote on bouncing... Mannie is a notorious bouncer and a diver.... he can produce a rather dramatic cycle. After all this time it is finally leveling out some... he is another on that is in remedial LTS. :lol: :lol: It just takes time -

Have a great day today - and I hope Champ's numbers come down today. :-D :-D
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

HI Patty, Gus is one that is a freshman in LTS, I think he met Mannie and have become good friends! There always seems to be a trade off in LL. For lower #s, you need to wait out the bounce. For a dosecrease, you expect a jump into the HIs. Seems you pay for every step forward. I believe the folks around here call it the 'Lantus Dance'. Sounds like you're hanging in there. It's hard when the vet gives you the instructions and says "Good luck." I don't know about you, but I felt kind of abandoned until I stumbled upon this great place. Keep up the good work with Champs and have a good day.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

Thanks everyone. Ya'll always make me smile!!! It's good to hear how everyone else is doing it. I've always given Champ his shot after he's eaten. Usually, he starts doing his face wash routine and I just kneel down next to him and voila. I don't think he knows yet that he's been getting a shot. He has never reacted at all. I think I'm going to check his +3 to see where he's going, but he did just eat some Wellness a minute ago (3 oz total since 5:45 am). I think he's gain a bit of weight back. If it was his BGs making him hungry, he wouldn't be gaining weight, would he? So I'm thinking he's just getting back to his piggy ways and I can't have that!! :lol: I'm going to try to not keep food out...make him ask me for it.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351

haha, pop over to punkin's condo - we're talking there about stabbing the babies while they eat. it's a good distraction. i think i may have more of a challenge because punkin's got a big amount of lantus going in - it stings some and it just takes longer to shoot. the short answer is you don't have to wait at all.

it helped me to hear last week that some of the cats going OTJ have been on it for 2 years. somehow i had the idea that it would be quick - and there was someone who started in Feb who is already off - but i don't think it's that quick for most cats.

according to the protocol, 100% of the cats who went on Lantus using the protocol within their first month of being diagnosed went OTJ. it didn't say how long that took, though.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246

Champ's had a pretty good drop, but I do hope it will have dropped a bit more at his +6.

I'm heading over Julie, just as soon as I get one more thing done at work so I don't get yelled at!! ;-)
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268

I'm really hating Champ's numbers right now. He found a secret spot to take a nap and I'm just going to let him be. Nothing I can do for him right now. I'll check his BG again at +9.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268

I hope so, Julie!! I've never been known for having patience. I had better develop some or I'm going to give myself an ulcer grr_red
 
Re: HELP PLEASE!! 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 34

Champ finally woke up, just about the time I wanted to check his BG anyway, and it's now 341!!! I still have three hours before giving him his next shot. What do I do? Just let it ride? He was hungry, but I didn't want to feed him anything because I didn't want his BG to shoot up even further, so I gave him freeze dried chicken, thinking it's pure protein and won't raise his BG. So...did I do the right thing and where do I go from here?
 
Re: HELP PLEASE!! 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 34

Patty...he's ok. I would not feed him..good decision. A few dried chicken treats ok. I would do a +11 and see if he gets a lantus second dip..some do and that's why you don't want to feed. If he doesn't get the dip he may be higher at PMPS. Just follow the protocol...it's a marathon..not a sprint! :lol:
 
Re: HELP PLEASE!! 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 34

Patty & Champ said:
Champ finally woke up, just about the time I wanted to check his BG anyway, and it's now 341!!! I still have three hours before giving him his next shot. What do I do? Just let it ride? He was hungry, but I didn't want to feed him anything because I didn't want his BG to shoot up even further, so I gave him freeze dried chicken, thinking it's pure protein and won't raise his BG. So...did I do the right thing and where do I go from here?
Click to expand...

"Many cats will occasionally react to an increased dose with increased BGs - within the first 2 to 3 days after an increase, usually lasting for less than 24 hours. Nobody really knows what the reason for this phenomenon is (perhaps a "panicky liver"?) - hold the dose and ignore the fluctuations."
http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

we call the above NDW (New Dose Wonkiness) in LL.


you have 2 options:

  • ignore what you're seeing now and shoot the same dose at champ's regular shot time
or
  • if the number continues to climb, occasionally you can shoot an hour or two early, BUT that now becomes your new shot time. in other words, tomorrow morning's shot should be 12 hours after whenever you shoot tonight. this method also comes with some strings attached. shooting early is pretty much like a dose increase. therefore, you MUST monitor carefully tonight.

considering champ has been diagnosed recently, i would ignore the numbers you're seeing now and simply shoot at your regularly scheduled shot time.
jmho...
 
Re: HELP PLEASE!! 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 34

Thank you Marjorie. I will now repeat this over and over.....I will not panic, I will not panic, I will not panic. uuggghhhh
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

binks did some silly NDW numbers when he first started...

c'mon, Champ...let's show the mom some better numbers!
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

Jill...how funny. I just printed out that thread about NDW!!! Of course, what I just read flew out of my freakin brain as soon as I saw his number. gaa. He's just so sleepy and, seriously, I really wish I could wake up and this was just a really bad dream.

I just read what I wrote. I'm sounding a bit like a drama queen. ewwww. When I see other kitties charts, like little Gus, I really should stop complaining. I'm a pain in my own behind :roll:
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

(((patty)))
hang in there, ok? each and every one of us has been in your shoes at one time or another. this WILL get easier!

ETA: have you had a chance to check for ketones today?
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

Jill, I did check for ketones and I'm having the hardest time telling the difference between negative and trace. My daughter is here and I had her look at it with me and she feels the same way...it doesn't really look like either, but more like negative than trace. When Champ was first diagnosed at the vet, his BG was 428 and he had negative ketones so I'm just going to keep checking it every time I can catch him peeing.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

ok, you'll think i'm being silly, but test yourself. then you'll have a better idea of what the color looks like when there aren't any ketones.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

Glad you have Jill here, Patty. I'm sure she laughed at my response because I am the QUEEN of impatience. So much so that I set Gracie back by increasing her dose when I should have waited. You can see it on her SS...lots of nice cycles..dose going down and then she bounced. I thought it was a failed reduction and took her up...then up more...two weeks of high numbers until she had a breakthrough and came back down. I have now learned patience..very hard when you see those pink numbers.
 
Re: 4/12 Champ AMPS 351, +3 246, +5 268, +9 341

Jill & Marjorie, you are now and forever my BFFs!!! First, he did have a dip at +11 to 328. and I never would have thought of testing the strip on myself!!! I will do that on my very next visit to the potty room. Here's hoping his strip and my strip look the same.
 
Champ dropped again for his PMPS!! yay!! Now here's the deal...his ketone stick and my ketone stick don't look alike. His tests negative and mine tests small. The reason I was comfortable testing Champ's BGs from the get-go is because I've checked mine off and on in the past. At one time, my numbers were in the 130-140s whenever I tested (fasting), but because I have no insurance I chose to try to deal with it myself. So I joined Weight Watcher's blah blah blah and now they're down to the 110's. Not so bad. Now I've got to wonder what it means for me to have a positive test on a ketone stick. hmmm
 
Majorie swears she found patience pants at Chicos, but they don't seem to have my size!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Take a look at Willie's spreadsheet from when he was first diagnosed. He also had a skin condition and his life partner of 12 years passed away (or, as we say here, went to the rainbow bridge) very, very suddenly after his diagnosis. We were fighting soooo many constant uphill battles that I just spent a lot of time wanting to cry. The week before his skin problems were definitively diagnosed in February, I was at wit's end, in tears alot because his numbers were terrible, his quality of life was severely diminished, and I knew it wasn't fair to him to force him to continue to live with that level of diminished quality of life. And then, everything started getting better. We aren't there yet... Willie definitely still needs somewhere around a unit of insulin twice a day, but he is happy and healthy as can be. Lots of running around playing, lots of good spirits... it's finally clicking for us.... and it will for you guys too. :) ((hug))

I actually think your drop to 1u BID was a wise one. You may work your way back up to 3u, and that is okay. but by going slowly along the way, you'll know that you didn't skip past the right dose. You are collecting extremely valuable data, so even if the numbers aren't perfect, they aren't worthless either. Taking the time to do this right will make you far more informed about what works and doesn't for Champ. And that will allow you to be the best possible advocate you can be for his care.

You're doing so great... and remember, we've all been there. This is the space where you CAN come and vent and be as much of a drama queen about your FD situation. :-D :-D :-D
 
You and Willie are truly inspirational, Christie. Reading his and others spreadsheets, and listening to you and other beans tell your stories, makes me realize that this is going to be a journey, sometimes a hard uphill one, and sometimes easy peasy, but always surrounded by people who care A LOT and know how to show it.
 
You posted in Gus's condo that I was so calm. I answered there but I'll repeat it here: you must be mistaking my hidden terror as calmness. I just study that protocol and every now and then, a light bulb will go off and I'll understand another point of it. I also look at questions from other people on the forum and read the answers. I've picked up a lot that way too. Nothing helps a newbie (like me) to learn quite like the hands on experience of working with your cat. The advice from the folks here is just priceless. I think my sweetie Gus would be dead if it weren't for them. Honestly, I didn't know enough about Lantus to keep him healthy for any amount of time. I do owe his life to them. Trusting people that you haven't met, haven't seen their faces, or heard their voices can be almost impossible. But, I know their experience and words of advice have gotten me this far and I'm now depending on them. I'll be keeping an eye on you and Champ and the 4 of us are going to do great!
 
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