4/12 & 4/13 Henry

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This is with night time feeding, right, Angela? I don't know. I am discouraged with the action of PZI in some kitties. We see high ps numbers and decent nadirs but with big drops. Other cats follow the normal curve perfectly. I would say raise the dose a little, but I hate to see a sharper drop. You might raise the am dose by .25?

You have been working with this awhile. Let's see if Lori or Joanna have ideas for you. If not, I think you might consider a change in insulin. Will your vet prescribe Levemir?
 
I'm so glad to see Henry getting some better #'s mid cycle. I know we've said it before... That high AMPS is just such a puzzle.
 
My first thought is ride this out...the nadir is not bad...and, well actually all that thought is based on is your post so I'm off to look at your SS. brb.
Lori
 
ok, well that is one interesting SS!
I realize how much I have changed in what I am about to say...but since Henry has gone thru so many different dose's and dose schedules I think it would do him some good to be on one steady dose for a time so his little body knows what it has to count on.
Between the one shot a day for some time and now the rather continuous dose hopping I don't think his body and what may be left on his litty bitty pancrease know what to expect. If you keep a habitual amount on insulin running thru the body and habitual times it may help and unless this is a ketone or dka kitty I would not yet be concerned with those numbers.
stay with the 2...or even 1.75. those night numbers too. I know you think he'll dip too low but not with the feeder and also those numbers can take it. stay with a dose and see if the cat is the one to even out.

IMHO

and does this go against everything i USED to say? Yes, but I've been learning from Lev (I KNOW apples and oranges butttt...same theory) that cats regulate themselves best with regular dosing.

AND ALL OF THIS FLIES OUT THE WINDOW WHEN A LOW BLUE OR GREEN IS YOUR PRE SHOT...THEN POST ...STALL DOSE....REDUCE ETC.
 
Ok, I will try sticking to 2 U for awhile.
The high AMPS is a total mystery to me.
I remember reading on a sticky or post somewhere that Gator? posted a few months ago about something called dawn syndrome? where in humans and cats? they rise considerably right at or before dawn and I can't remember what the theory for the rise was nor can I find the post again.

he is 147 at 3.75

I don't know what my vet would say about switching to Levimir, she's pretty open to most things but don't know how much experience she has dealing with prescribing it for cats. We are in a small town.
And personally I think I would like to give ProZinc a little more time, he has gradually improved on it upper 300's and low 400's in am are better than 500+ and his nadirs have been decent a better portion of the time.

Thanks for everyone's input; we appreciate it!
 
Angela you might try a trick i found helpful with tom. mornings i would test, feed...wait 1/2 and test again and tom invariably dropped ALOT all by hizzelf before his shot. it was his pancreas! so i would base his shot on the 2nd test.
try this...that could be the reason for the fast drop...both the insulin and pancreas working together.
 
Sue I heard backround noise and I think it was the pz kitties planning a meeting. It was it turns out....a group effort! :lol:
 
hey fwiw tom had a 'caught hypo' today. +2 39 which i treated somewhat aggresively as i needed to go to work. but i do think he was in on the 'let's go low and give our beans a break' day. only tom overdid it (so like him!) and instead of a break he gave me a :o


IF anyone of the pz peeps look at my chart PLEASE keep in mind i am shooting a completly different insulin which allows for very low numbers to be shot. I WOULD NEVER SHOOT PRO ZINC INTO THESE NUMBERS. just sayin ok?
 
i know.. :razz: anti jinx anit jinx....i think we are heading 'you know where'
 
9:00 pm is Henry's usual time for his shot.
I tested at 9:00 he was 120.
Tested again just now at 9:30 hes 124.
Should I keep testing and see if it comes up for a while or just skip his shot tonight?
Burnin' through the test strips today.
 
well not's not break the momentum by skipping the shot.
pzi offers a lot of space for change...what hour are you currently in? have you reached +13?
 
Almost at +13 in 10 min. Will recheck then, I just don't want to wait too long and get his schedule messed up in the morning.
I am scared to shoot a 120 0r 125.
 
Angela of all your choices messing up his schedule is the least concern. pz will allow for that. it's ok to shoot tomorow at +11.
If Henry is still on the rise but not at 150 I honestly think you should stall until he get's there. that choice is far better than skipping a rising number. kwim?
then the choice is how much to shoot.
i have to go back again to darn ss. brb.
 
your there angela...you've made the breakthru you've been waiting for. if you skip you'll be back in the reds. if you get 150 i would feel safe shooting 1u. yes 1u. he is clearly on the rise. he is not going to come back down for another hour or so after shot.
angela...don't know where you are but are you gonna be up for a few hours?
 
so i see you got a 125....how late will you be up..eastern time right?
 
holding off? does that mean skipping or stalling? really really really hate to see you lose this momentum. it's ok to break schdule.
if you want more opinions let's start a new thread and put a question mark thingy (up top) and subject 'stalling shot'
 
Really nice to see a green, yippee!!!

I am just so stumped by those high AMPSs. My only thought remains to shoot earlier in the AM, and try him on something like an 11/13 (13/11?) schedule rather than 12/12. 11 hours overnight (or 10, 10.5, whatever the #s dictate) and then 13 or whatever in the daytime cycle. You would probably need to do some data gathering to figure out what timing makes sense with the #s, and then it might take some experimenting to figure out what doses work (for instance it might turn out a different AM dose vs. PM dose gives him better #s given the varied timing).

It would be a bit of a challenge and a little extra work to get it figured out, but except for those AMPSs his #s are pretty good, so I think if you could head off those reds it might do him a lot of good. Looks like on a green nadir in the day he won't be shootable by +12 anyhow, soooooooo....

As far as other insulins, I don't have any insight into whether, given he has this funky high AM thing going on, another insulin might help that. Or if you'd see the same pattern regardless?

I worry a bit about trying to keep him at a steady dose given the PS contrasts. When their PSs are more even it makes more sense to me. I think it's ok for you to try sticking to one dose, but just be alert to changing it if it isn't working.

2u does make me nervous though on the lower PSs. That's quite a drop today... but since we don't have any solid explanation for the high AMPSs I think it's hard to know how that affects the dosing. If it were me I would probably still try a lowered dose a night, and try to get some middle-of-the-night :shock: nadirs here & there to try to gauge whether or not I've got the night dose right. I mean if you get red-green-blue-green-red-green, etc. it's not the end of the world, might just be his pattern. As long as the AM drop doesn't cause rebound or leave him seeming like he doesn't feel well, might just be how things are.

Dawn phenomenon is something I've seen mentioned more about people w/diabetes than cats. I've seen it mentioned a few times on the board, but not a huge amount. Although I haven't followed a huge # of cats, I don't recall seeing any with this dramatic a pattern like this. Might actually be worth a thread on Health to get thoughts. TT threads aren't supposed to be about specific cats, right? But you could still post on TT and ask about the dawn phenom if you wanted to. TT is only for the brave though :mrgreen: but there are some peeps around with an awesome amount of knowledge & insight.
 
hey angela, it's about 11 your time. i guess if your not 150 yet you might want to give a token dose just to not let him go dry for the night. by token dose i mean maybe .25U. a quarter of a unit you can judge by eye.
good luck angela...hopeing for a 150 but in a way it's great to never get there to! ;-)
 
at +14 he was 130.
going to check again at 12 at +15 if not up to 150 I suppose I will skip unless its a a drop.
 
Angela Henry is doing soooo good. At this point unless staying up till midnight is no big whop I'd say it's ok to skip...i mean he is hardle movin.
 
well you sure got some hang time with this cycle. will be very interesting what amps brings. might want to lower dose even on a red so you can shoot both amps and pmps...kwim? 1.5?
 
Thanks Joanna, I wonder if a 11/13 schedule would work better for him? And I think maybe consistent doses but maybe 2U AM and 1.75U PM when he tends to be much lower than AM?
I am going to search the board and see if I can find that reference to dawn phenom and read it again.
 
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