4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, PMPS 408
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Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +1.33 151 - Dose Advice?
Hi Nancy, Pepper sure likes to make sure you are awake first thing in the morning. :shock:
I'm not sure if I could answer the dose question, but a little more info might help those that do. Did you give Pepper any food at that 47 this morning? I'm wondering whether it took any extra food to bring up his numbers or he did it on his own. When Neko was in higher doses, I always reduced if it was taking me extra HC to bring up the numbers. It's like she was telling me she was done with that dose. You'll learn to feel that from Pepper too when the time comes.
The thing I'm wondering about is the size of Pepper's shed. You only went up to 24.25 for one shot, so I'm not sure if it would still be impacting him this morning. If that 47 was the 24U dose talking, then that would indicate a deduction. Hopefully an expert can answer that.
Hi Nancy, Pepper sure likes to make sure you are awake first thing in the morning. :shock:
I'm not sure if I could answer the dose question, but a little more info might help those that do. Did you give Pepper any food at that 47 this morning? I'm wondering whether it took any extra food to bring up his numbers or he did it on his own. When Neko was in higher doses, I always reduced if it was taking me extra HC to bring up the numbers. It's like she was telling me she was done with that dose. You'll learn to feel that from Pepper too when the time comes.
The thing I'm wondering about is the size of Pepper's shed. You only went up to 24.25 for one shot, so I'm not sure if it would still be impacting him this morning. If that 47 was the 24U dose talking, then that would indicate a deduction. Hopefully an expert can answer that.
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +1.33 151 - Dose Advice?
Hi Wendy. I gave Pepper about a teaspoon of LC at the 48.
Hi Wendy. I gave Pepper about a teaspoon of LC at the 48.
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Hi Dyana. In the PM cycle, he usually doesn't eat much after +3 or +3.5. I can try feeding him a small meal around PM +8. How much constitutes a small meal?
Hi Dyana. In the PM cycle, he usually doesn't eat much after +3 or +3.5. I can try feeding him a small meal around PM +8. How much constitutes a small meal?
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Nancy --
I'd think about dropping Pepper's dose again. I'm thinking you may want to drop either by 0.25u or 0.5u. When a cat is on Pepper's kind of dose, you have to develop a "feel" for how much to increase or decrease. The protocol may not be the best guide. If you take a look at Mr. Grey's SS, you'll see there were some big reductions. The usual "rules" didn't apply.
Nancy --
I'd think about dropping Pepper's dose again. I'm thinking you may want to drop either by 0.25u or 0.5u. When a cat is on Pepper's kind of dose, you have to develop a "feel" for how much to increase or decrease. The protocol may not be the best guide. If you take a look at Mr. Grey's SS, you'll see there were some big reductions. The usual "rules" didn't apply.
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
OK, thanks, Sienne. I'll try dropping his dose. I'll try to decide by PMPS how much.
OK, thanks, Sienne. I'll try dropping his dose. I'll try to decide by PMPS how much.
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Nancy, when I was going down the scale, I was doing .5 units but Neko was on smaller dose than Pepper is. You can always take it back up a bit if that doesn't work. You do want to be careful of the large shed in case things are revving down. And I'm always fond of dosing on the line if I can.
Nancy, when I was going down the scale, I was doing .5 units but Neko was on smaller dose than Pepper is. You can always take it back up a bit if that doesn't work. You do want to be careful of the large shed in case things are revving down. And I'm always fond of dosing on the line if I can.
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Hi Wendy. I was going to try decreasing by 0.5u. I hate trying to measure 0.25 too. You aren't suggesting decreasing by more, are you?
Hi Wendy. I was going to try decreasing by 0.5u. I hate trying to measure 0.25 too. You aren't suggesting decreasing by more, are you?
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Hi Nancy,
I know we have talked before about different schools of thought with regards to high dose dosing. My question is, are you comfortable with him nadiring in the 40s, or not? There is no right or wrong answer, go with what you feel is right. There's also no major commitment - if you make a choice and it doesn't work out, then you can just make a different choice. No problem! You're having to stall shots often, so that should play into your decision too.
Most of us with long-term diabetics would not reduce for a nadir of 47, but with a high dose it is very important for you to understand Pepper's cycles, Pepper's response to food, etc. so you can choose whether you want to do reductions in the 40s, or if you want to reduce based on some other criteria.
Hi Nancy,
I know we have talked before about different schools of thought with regards to high dose dosing. My question is, are you comfortable with him nadiring in the 40s, or not? There is no right or wrong answer, go with what you feel is right. There's also no major commitment - if you make a choice and it doesn't work out, then you can just make a different choice. No problem! You're having to stall shots often, so that should play into your decision too.
Most of us with long-term diabetics would not reduce for a nadir of 47, but with a high dose it is very important for you to understand Pepper's cycles, Pepper's response to food, etc. so you can choose whether you want to do reductions in the 40s, or if you want to reduce based on some other criteria.
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Hi Libby. Why wouldn't most people with long-term diabetics reduce for a nadir of 47?
Hi Libby. Why wouldn't most people with long-term diabetics reduce for a nadir of 47?
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
Gabby is a long term diabetic. Most of the time, the point is to make the long term diabetic kitty work for the reduction so there's a greater chance that the reduction holds. As a result, for a cat that's a year past diagnosis we use drops below 40 as the criteria for a reduction. Alternatively, if I have to really work to keep Gabby's numbers from tanking, I may reduce her dose.
Gabby is a long term diabetic. Most of the time, the point is to make the long term diabetic kitty work for the reduction so there's a greater chance that the reduction holds. As a result, for a cat that's a year past diagnosis we use drops below 40 as the criteria for a reduction. Alternatively, if I have to really work to keep Gabby's numbers from tanking, I may reduce her dose.
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
the TR protocol calls for reductions if the cat goes under 40, or some will reduce if they go under 50 three times. The reason is that we usually see that cats who have been diabetic for longer tend to have a harder time holding reductions, so we are a bit more aggressive with long-term diabetics. However, with acro cats it is not necessarily a good thing to be more aggressive.
My best advice would be to try a reduction if you want, because you'll never know if you don't try. If it doesn't work then don't hesitate to increase again. If a reduction doesn't hold, don't sit on the dose for very long.
As far as how much to reduce, I agree with Wendy. For Jazzy, sometimes I reduced by 0.5u, and sometimes by 0.25u. I decided based on what her overall spreadsheet was looking like at the time as well as my availability to monitor. I was sick a lot of the time I had Jazzy, so I had to be conservative because I couldn't always monitor very well.
the TR protocol calls for reductions if the cat goes under 40, or some will reduce if they go under 50 three times. The reason is that we usually see that cats who have been diabetic for longer tend to have a harder time holding reductions, so we are a bit more aggressive with long-term diabetics. However, with acro cats it is not necessarily a good thing to be more aggressive.
My best advice would be to try a reduction if you want, because you'll never know if you don't try. If it doesn't work then don't hesitate to increase again. If a reduction doesn't hold, don't sit on the dose for very long.
As far as how much to reduce, I agree with Wendy. For Jazzy, sometimes I reduced by 0.5u, and sometimes by 0.25u. I decided based on what her overall spreadsheet was looking like at the time as well as my availability to monitor. I was sick a lot of the time I had Jazzy, so I had to be conservative because I couldn't always monitor very well.
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Pepper AMPS 59, +2.75 226, +5 271 - Dose Advice?
I should have re-read the protocol! All I remembered was reducing if they go under 50, but I remember the rest now. I could try a small meal at PM +8 to see if it keeps Pepper from dropping so much. Hmmm..
I should have re-read the protocol! All I remembered was reducing if they go under 50, but I remember the rest now. I could try a small meal at PM +8 to see if it keeps Pepper from dropping so much. Hmmm..
Nancy&Pepper (GA)
Member Since 2012
Decided not to decrease, try a small meal at PM +8, and see if that keeps him from dropping so much by tomorrow morning. I really haven't had much trouble bringing his numbers up with food, so we'll see how it goes tomorrow.
I think Pepper actually had an unplanned reduction this morning because I'm pretty sure I gave him the wrong dose this morning! I think I gave him 19u instead of 24u. I was rushing around this morning and didn't double-check the dose before I gave his shot. I almost did the same thing tonight, but I caught it when I double-checked before injecting!
I think Pepper actually had an unplanned reduction this morning because I'm pretty sure I gave him the wrong dose this morning! I think I gave him 19u instead of 24u. I was rushing around this morning and didn't double-check the dose before I gave his shot. I almost did the same thing tonight, but I caught it when I double-checked before injecting!
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