4/11 Ella +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57+4=79,4.5=97 +6=167
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Dyana
Member Since 2009
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
A lot of times I don't when J.D. is high, but since you're still kind new to all this and gathering data, you can.
Although, that is a pretty big rise from +11 to +12. I would think she will still be in the red when and if you test at +1, especially after eating her breffis. It's up to you.
A lot of times I don't when J.D. is high, but since you're still kind new to all this and gathering data, you can.
Although, that is a pretty big rise from +11 to +12. I would think she will still be in the red when and if you test at +1, especially after eating her breffis. It's up to you.
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Good morning Tamara and Ella,
It looks like Ella has the "dawn syndrome" (high number at AMPS--very common). I know that you're at work now, but just to answer your question about lowering the dose to stop the bouncing. No, it doesn't work that way!! I used to speculate about that, too, but I was told by the experienced people here that lowering the dose would only make all the numbers rise. Ella's body needs insulin and you are following a protocol that will enable you to arrive at her optimal dose safely. So keep on doing what you're doing and wait for one of the experienced people to help you when they determine that it is time for an increase.
You are doing fine. You sound much less anxious today. Good! :smile:
Have a good day. Ella will be OK.
Ella & Rusty
Good morning Tamara and Ella,
It looks like Ella has the "dawn syndrome" (high number at AMPS--very common). I know that you're at work now, but just to answer your question about lowering the dose to stop the bouncing. No, it doesn't work that way!! I used to speculate about that, too, but I was told by the experienced people here that lowering the dose would only make all the numbers rise. Ella's body needs insulin and you are following a protocol that will enable you to arrive at her optimal dose safely. So keep on doing what you're doing and wait for one of the experienced people to help you when they determine that it is time for an increase.
You are doing fine. You sound much less anxious today. Good! :smile:
Have a good day. Ella will be OK.
Ella & Rusty
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
You forgot to link to your condo from yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68373
A couple of questions: Have you transitioned Ella to a fully canned food diet or are you still giving her some dry food? Are you feeding late in the cycle?
If you are feeding dry, especially if you are feeding dry late in the cycle, you can see these kind of numbers without it being a bounce. Dry takes longer to be metabolized and raise numbers and takes longer to work its way out of the system. There was a note on your SS about feeding at +9.5. It's helpful to keep in mind that if you are feeding after nadir, there's less insulin available to offset the effect of food and it may effect your pre-shot numbers.
With regard to a bounce, reducing the amount of insulin really doesn't help. Bouncing generally occurs because over the course of diabetes developing, your cat has become acclimated to being in higher BG numbers. Providing exogenous insulin is lowering BG levels. Unfortunately, the liver has "forgotten" what was the previously normal BG range. As a result, when Ella is in normal numbers, the liver panics, goes into survival mode, and releases a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones in order to get levels back to what is, at least according to Ella's liver, the new "normal" BG level. Ideally, you want Ella to be spending as much time as possible in truly normal numbers to help her liver get used to being back in that range and stop overreacting. The only way for this to occur is to not decrease the dose. Decreasing the amount of insulin you're providing will only prolong the time that Ella is spending in higher numbers and potentially prolong the bounciness.
You forgot to link to your condo from yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68373
A couple of questions: Have you transitioned Ella to a fully canned food diet or are you still giving her some dry food? Are you feeding late in the cycle?
If you are feeding dry, especially if you are feeding dry late in the cycle, you can see these kind of numbers without it being a bounce. Dry takes longer to be metabolized and raise numbers and takes longer to work its way out of the system. There was a note on your SS about feeding at +9.5. It's helpful to keep in mind that if you are feeding after nadir, there's less insulin available to offset the effect of food and it may effect your pre-shot numbers.
With regard to a bounce, reducing the amount of insulin really doesn't help. Bouncing generally occurs because over the course of diabetes developing, your cat has become acclimated to being in higher BG numbers. Providing exogenous insulin is lowering BG levels. Unfortunately, the liver has "forgotten" what was the previously normal BG range. As a result, when Ella is in normal numbers, the liver panics, goes into survival mode, and releases a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones in order to get levels back to what is, at least according to Ella's liver, the new "normal" BG level. Ideally, you want Ella to be spending as much time as possible in truly normal numbers to help her liver get used to being back in that range and stop overreacting. The only way for this to occur is to not decrease the dose. Decreasing the amount of insulin you're providing will only prolong the time that Ella is spending in higher numbers and potentially prolong the bounciness.
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Without knowing the reason for the bounce, you can't very well say the dose should not be reduced.
If your dose were too high, you would see many low numbers and then bounces higher.
It could just be Ella getting used to better, lower numbers.
If you stick your hand into ice cold water, it's a shock and you jerk your hand out fast. You will feel your hand warming, yes? Now, if you go back into the water again, the cold water won't feel as cold to your hand the 2nd time and the following times, yes?
Just imagine being used to the temperature in a hot tub, very nice and comfy. Then get out of the hot tub and jump into a lake or pool. Pretty shocking for sure and your body shivers and tries to warm up.
The lake or pool water would not have felt so cold if you had not gone right from the hot tub, yes?
Ella's got to get used to the temp of the pool or lake water, and in time, you will not see such bounces.
Without knowing the reason for the bounce, you can't very well say the dose should not be reduced.
If your dose were too high, you would see many low numbers and then bounces higher.
It could just be Ella getting used to better, lower numbers.
If you stick your hand into ice cold water, it's a shock and you jerk your hand out fast. You will feel your hand warming, yes? Now, if you go back into the water again, the cold water won't feel as cold to your hand the 2nd time and the following times, yes?
Just imagine being used to the temperature in a hot tub, very nice and comfy. Then get out of the hot tub and jump into a lake or pool. Pretty shocking for sure and your body shivers and tries to warm up.
The lake or pool water would not have felt so cold if you had not gone right from the hot tub, yes?
Ella's got to get used to the temp of the pool or lake water, and in time, you will not see such bounces.
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Just sending you hugs, Tamara. The bounces are tough to wait through but I agree with Sienne and Gayle....if you reduce the dose, it will make it worse. Hang in there.
Just sending you hugs, Tamara. The bounces are tough to wait through but I agree with Sienne and Gayle....if you reduce the dose, it will make it worse. Hang in there.
tpr
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Hello everyone
Thanks for your responses! I wasn't planning on reducing the dose I was just trying to attempt to 'figure' out how this all works
I have not been feeding her any dry since last Thursday morning. I admit, I did feed her at +9.5 or close to +10 yesterday and will try extrremly hard to ignore her pleas when I get home. I was under the impression that I could give a wee snack before +10 (like a tablespoon) but from what I'm hearing I should just atand firm!
Thanks!
Hello everyone
Thanks for your responses! I wasn't planning on reducing the dose I was just trying to attempt to 'figure' out how this all works
I have not been feeding her any dry since last Thursday morning. I admit, I did feed her at +9.5 or close to +10 yesterday and will try extrremly hard to ignore her pleas when I get home. I was under the impression that I could give a wee snack before +10 (like a tablespoon) but from what I'm hearing I should just atand firm!
Thanks!
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Oh I always gave some kind of snack at +10 or just before it; it was my way of cheating the rule in some way. And seriously, is a wee snack of low carb going to be bad for the ps number?
If you want to know for sure, you would need to test at the time you give the little snack and then at +11 and ps.
I don't see the harm at all, unless Ella was at 220 or something at that snack time and rose to 326 an hr later.
Oh I always gave some kind of snack at +10 or just before it; it was my way of cheating the rule in some way. And seriously, is a wee snack of low carb going to be bad for the ps number?
If you want to know for sure, you would need to test at the time you give the little snack and then at +11 and ps.
I don't see the harm at all, unless Ella was at 220 or something at that snack time and rose to 326 an hr later.
PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Hi guys .. no advice from me on the bouncing .. after the two years mocha was on insulin, we could never figure it out anyways .. we threw our hands up in the air so many times! Anyways, I hope ella comes down some for you today .. have a great day guys!
Hi guys .. no advice from me on the bouncing .. after the two years mocha was on insulin, we could never figure it out anyways .. we threw our hands up in the air so many times! Anyways, I hope ella comes down some for you today .. have a great day guys!
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
If you give a snack, a great deal depends on how carb sensitive your cat is. Some cats can have a substantial bump in numbers from even freeze dried chicken. If Ella knows how to wheedle a snack out of you, I'd suggest giving her something like cooked chicken. It has no carbs so unless Ella is exquisitely carb sensitive, it shouldn't effect her numbers -- but there's no guarantee.
If you give a snack, a great deal depends on how carb sensitive your cat is. Some cats can have a substantial bump in numbers from even freeze dried chicken. If Ella knows how to wheedle a snack out of you, I'd suggest giving her something like cooked chicken. It has no carbs so unless Ella is exquisitely carb sensitive, it shouldn't effect her numbers -- but there's no guarantee.
tpr
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Ella +11 326 AMPS 403
Just got back home a little while ago and she is STARVING but I'm standing firm. I'm curious to see if she will bounce again as her numbers are similar to yesterdays and she is in nervous purring mode.
When I look back at her ss on 04/07 she had a nice curve that day. Perhpas it's because I fed her up to +4. She may be one of those kitties that needs some food spaced out in the first four hours to help keep her numbers flat? Does that seem logical?
Just got back home a little while ago and she is STARVING but I'm standing firm. I'm curious to see if she will bounce again as her numbers are similar to yesterdays and she is in nervous purring mode.
When I look back at her ss on 04/07 she had a nice curve that day. Perhpas it's because I fed her up to +4. She may be one of those kitties that needs some food spaced out in the first four hours to help keep her numbers flat? Does that seem logical?
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 (please help)
I would feed 2 tsp of low carb food and test again in 30 minutes to see what that does.
Do you have high carb wet food in the house, in case you need it to steer the cycle later?
Eta: I see dyana has your back.
I would feed 2 tsp of low carb food and test again in 30 minutes to see what that does.
Do you have high carb wet food in the house, in case you need it to steer the cycle later?
Eta: I see dyana has your back.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 (please help)
It's not a horribly fast drop but it is great that you tested and are on top of things. I'd encourage you to follow Libby's suggestion. If Ella's numbers are continuing to drop you can always control the drop with HC food. There are lots of people around who can walk you through handling low numbers. (So, remember to breathe!)
It's not a horribly fast drop but it is great that you tested and are on top of things. I'd encourage you to follow Libby's suggestion. If Ella's numbers are continuing to drop you can always control the drop with HC food. There are lots of people around who can walk you through handling low numbers. (So, remember to breathe!)
tpr
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 (please help)
well i have mc at 12%. i also have dry at 15% and I bought some gravy whiskas but I'm not too sure what it is as it was named differently from the kinds off of janet and binky's. she's running around, a bit hyper right now!
well i have mc at 12%. i also have dry at 15% and I bought some gravy whiskas but I'm not too sure what it is as it was named differently from the kinds off of janet and binky's. she's running around, a bit hyper right now!
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 (please help)
no dry food; it will take the longest time to raise Ella's numbers and it will stay way too long in her system.
How much food in total are you feeding her in a day? Until she gets settled and regulated, you will need to feed her more than usual. Holding back food if she is starving is holding back nutrients from her. Her body is not able to extract the nutrients needed from the food right now, so that's why she may need more food.
The 88 is a wonderful number, but you may see her bounce from it as she may not yet be used to such a good number. One of my civies usually tests at around 42 and 48, so she is fine at that 88.
no dry food; it will take the longest time to raise Ella's numbers and it will stay way too long in her system.
How much food in total are you feeding her in a day? Until she gets settled and regulated, you will need to feed her more than usual. Holding back food if she is starving is holding back nutrients from her. Her body is not able to extract the nutrients needed from the food right now, so that's why she may need more food.
The 88 is a wonderful number, but you may see her bounce from it as she may not yet be used to such a good number. One of my civies usually tests at around 42 and 48, so she is fine at that 88.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.6 =64
Giving a bit of LC is fine. It should encourage surfing.
With cats, the fat content in food isn't important when it comes to managing pancreatitis.
Giving a bit of LC is fine. It should encourage surfing.
With cats, the fat content in food isn't important when it comes to managing pancreatitis.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57
How much are you feeding her? I generally give about a 1/2 t a teaspoon of food when I'm doing repeated tests.
How much are you feeding her? I generally give about a 1/2 t a teaspoon of food when I'm doing repeated tests.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57
If it were me, I would. It looks like the LC is encouraging her to surf. The more time Ella spends in this number range, the better it is for her pancreas.
Can you keep your subject line up to date? It makes it easier for those of us who are keeping an eye on your condo to know what's going on with Ella's numbers.
If it were me, I would. It looks like the LC is encouraging her to surf. The more time Ella spends in this number range, the better it is for her pancreas.
Can you keep your subject line up to date? It makes it easier for those of us who are keeping an eye on your condo to know what's going on with Ella's numbers.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57+4=79
Tamara
I'm just popping in so Dyana can go to bed and Sienne might need to as well. You are doing great!
You shouldn't worry about the extra food and her pancreas. Cats do. Not develop pancreatitis from fat in foods like dogs do. So breathe and just test agin at 4.5 so we can see if the LC will let her continue to surf.
Tamara
I'm just popping in so Dyana can go to bed and Sienne might need to as well. You are doing great!
You shouldn't worry about the extra food and her pancreas. Cats do. Not develop pancreatitis from fat in foods like dogs do. So breathe and just test agin at 4.5 so we can see if the LC will let her continue to surf.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57+4=79
I agree with Marje. Get the +4.5 and if numbers are still on the rise or if Ella is surfing, then I'd suggest re-testing in an hour.
I agree with Marje. Get the +4.5 and if numbers are still on the rise or if Ella is surfing, then I'd suggest re-testing in an hour.
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57+4=79
Don't worry about feeding her more if she is coming up.
Don't worry about feeding her more if she is coming up.
thebigfuzz
Member Since 2012
Re: 4/11 Ella ,pmps 207 +1=153 +2= 88 +2.5 =64 +3 +57+4=79
Hiyas!!!
You are doing great! I know these greens are a bit scary, especially with where your day started...green is where it's at! lol You are doing great managing this wild and crazy day!
Tanya
Hiyas!!!
You are doing great! I know these greens are a bit scary, especially with where your day started...green is where it's at! lol You are doing great managing this wild and crazy day!
Tanya
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