4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303,+3 243

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Patty & Champ

Patty & Champ

Member Since 2011
Yesterday

He was so hungry this morning. He ate about 1 ounce at about 10 last night and I didn't leave any food out so I could get a sure no-food reading this morning. But man, he was desperate for some food. I won't do that again. I'll leave out about an ounce from now on to nosh on overnight. He looks soo good this morning; chipper, crying for his food, drinking, purring, cleaning himself after his breakfast. I had a poster yesterday (can't remember who!) who said his body is probably just trying to get used to all that's going on with it and I think I have to agree. Let's hope today is a good day. At least I'll be working so I won't have as much time to hover over Champ.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Hi Patty,
It sounds like a good start for Champ today. I'm so glad that he is acting normally again. I always leave some food out overnight for Rusty. Sometimes he eats it all at once, at bedtime, but most of the time he saves some and grazes. I don't use an auto feeder with Rusty because he is used to free feeding. But if you want to make sure Champ gets food at certain hours, you might buy an auto feeder. I really like the Cat Mate C 20, two-compartment feeder (I used it successfully with my GA diabetic, Stu). The compartments are separately timed, and once the lids are open, they stay open, so the cat doesn't have to eat everything in the compartment at once (the rotary feeders whisk uneaten food away under the lid when the next compartment swings into the opening; also, I had a lot of trouble with my rotary feeder stopping midway between compartments, making it impossible for the kitty to get his head into the tray! Other people, however, really like the 5-compartment rotary feeders). With Stu I would put out a bedtime snack in one of the trays and leave that compartment open for immediate consumption. Then I would set the timer in the other compartment for +9 or thereabouts and another snack would be available later.

286 is a nice AMPS for Champ. I think that you will be glad that you went down in dose and are following the protocol. If you're worried about what your vet will say about the dose reduction, just don't tell him/her. Many people here, myself included, have found that it is not necessary to involve your vet in your cat's day-to-day diabetes care unless there are significant other complicating factors.

Hoping you will have a good day. Don't worry too much!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Good morning Ella!! Today is off to a great start. Champ is acting completely normal so if he decides later to be a lazy lump and sleep all day, I'm not going to worry too much. I just checked his ketones and they were negative so another happy event!! I hope your Monday is awesome!!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

YAY!!! Things are good again, Champ is being Champ, and he has a great amps! AWESOME!

and I agree with Ella - autofeeders can be so great when one is gone all day. You can program servings so they can eat when you want them too.

Have a great day today. I am so glad tings are better today.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Thanks Sienne!

Michelle, since I'm home all day (I work from home) I've always let Champ free feed. With only wet food, I'm having a hard time determining how much is too much. He's always been a bit of a piggie; hence, him weighing 21 pounds at one time. He used to have dry out all the time and wet twice a day. Since I no longer put out any dry, I don't know how much to feed him. Usually I put out 2 oz. in the morning, but today I put out 2.5 because he was so hungry. He licked his plate clean! Before I started working, I put another 1.5 oz. in his bowl, thinking he would eat that later. Nope. He ate it right then. So now he has an empty plate and I don't know when and how much I should feed him again. He should only be eating 6 oz. a day according to Dr. Lisa's website, but is that true when I'm still trying to regulate his BGs? I'm sure I'll put out some lunch for him later on and he can eat it when he wants. I just don't want him to regain any of his weight.

I hope your Monday is wonderful!!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Hi patty - gotcha. And I know on the food thing. I think too as he gets more used to the insulin, and becomes more regulated his food demands will start to decrease. It did with Mannie. I know per Lisa's site that Mannie should also be getting about 6oz per day, and for the most part that is what I feed. He has for the most part now accepted what he is fed. There are times however when he simply is just hungry. If it's not his usual food time I will give him a snack or two: a couple of freeze dried chicken pieces. I still try to feed this amount (the 6 oz over the course of the day), even when regulating his BG - he dos have a weight issue, being about 2 pounds over what he should be. There are times however when his numbers are too low, that I have to feed more, just to get his numbers up. When this happens it is difficult to maintain the set food amount.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Michelle, Mannie looks like he's more hair than anything else!!! Even though Champ is a shorthair, his undercoat is so thick and he sheds microfine hairs all over which get in my eyes, I have him shaved in the summer. I can't WAIT until it's warm enough for me to get him shaved. hahaha. He looks so cute with his lion cut, though he tends to look a little embarrassed at first, like he feels too girly. On the food subject, I think I may just feed him 2 oz. three times a day so at least he knows he has something to look forward to. He has about another two pounds to lose also. And, boy, do I wish I had known about the freeze dried chicken a long time ago. Champ was a Temptations junkie, but now LOVES the freeze dried chicken!!! yay. Too bad it's so expensive. Of course, looking at the pet stores, they sell the stuff in the cat aisle for $3 for 0.4 oz., but you can get 6.6 oz. in the dog aisle for $13. Makes no sense. Just because the pieces are smaller, you're going to charge that much more? I don't think so. I know how to break it into little pieces myself, thankyouverymuch.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Hi guys .. I don't think I have posted in your condo before .. so welcome from us! I'm glad to hear that champ is starting to act like his old self again .. that's such a reward in itself .. I hope you guys have a great day!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286

Thanks for the welcome!! Congrats on the OTJ!! I'm hoping for that one day and praying it will come sooner rather than later or I may die from the stress! I looked at Mocha's SS and hope to hell I don't have to go through those kind of numbers with my cat. Must have been a very hard time for you. Thank goodness you've had such a good outcome.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

Champ's BG looks really good right now! The 1.25 must be agreeing with him. And he's been playing all morning so he must have had a turnaround sometime last night. Let's keep our fingers crossed that this is the beginning of great things!! :-D
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

Go Champ!! So glad you decided to decrease the dose and start over, Patty. Maybe save that chat for the vet after you've got great numbers to show for your decision. :) We ultimately had to breakup with the vet who diagnosed Willie because they demanded to be very hands on with dosing decisions, and the advice they were giving was HORRIBLE (roll the lantus, it's okay to shoot air bubbles into it, refused to prescribe the pens, demanded I drop him to once a day dosing... all kinds of nonsense!). Hopefully, your vet will respect your decisions and choose to learn from you.

So glad you found the dog food aisle!! Soooo much more economical, and for the exact same product! FYI, I took the bag and sifted out all the bits at the bottom and put them in a separate baggie. I use that to sprinkle on top of Willie's food when he's not as enthusiastic as I'd like him to be. That or bonito flakes work every time!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

morning patty! so glad that champ is doing better today - it does make the mama feel better to have the kitter acting normally, doesn't it?!?

i really like my vet - he totally screwed up when he switched punkin from ProZinc to Lantus but didn't tell us to get different needles - resulting in the dosage you see now for punkin - 7 units BID. But punkin hasn't suffered from it, the vet apologized like 100 times, and we've stayed with him. vets aren't perfect, but you want them to be teachable! :lol: i gave the vet the link to the protocol & punkin's spreadsheet and every time i take him in, i take the past couple of weeks of SS. I tried to hit the tactful medium of saying "these folks do feline diabetes 24/7 and are helping me with the dosing" and he accepted it.

we mix about 50% water with punkin's food as well - he's 14.3 pounds and his weight is stable on 3-3oz cans of FF every day. every dish of FF gets 1/2 the volume again of water added to it and fork-mushed in. punkin always had bladder issues (dry food, sigh) and i just think he seems really healthy with the canned food. my civvie had constant diarrhea problems with dry food that are now gone with the canned food with water mixed in. who knew canned food + water would solve so many problems?

the best way for you to know if you're giving champ the right amount of food is to keep weighing him.

so glad today's been better for champ!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

So much good advice!!! btw...I was told to roll the Lantus also and I'VE BEEN DOING IT. What do I do instead to make sure it's mixed? Also, because I bought the Lantus before I joined this board, I bought a vial of the insulin which my vet said would last about three months for Champ, though for humans you throw it out after 28 days. I've read about the pens, but I don't understand the concept. I even went on the Solostar website to see if I could get more information. My question is this...if a vial of insulin (1000 units in it) only has a shelf life of possibly three months (for kitties), how come you can get five pens and have them last for up to a year (if you have a small dosage)? How come the insulin doesn't go bad in a pen when it will in a vial? And how many units are in each pen? And my vet did instruct me to not put air into the vial. She also told me to go with wet food, high protein/lo carb was a good choice, etc. I think she probably put him on the 3 units (and told me to check a curve at home after three weeks!!) because she's not used to someone who's willing to go through all this trouble to do BGs every few hours and be so hands-on. She's really a great vet. She diagnosed my Champ with cystitis caused by stress when another vet had been keeping him on antibiotics for three prescriptions worth ($23 each prescription) after not even being able to get any urine to check for bacteria...just put him on antibiotics anyway. And I love the way my vet loves my cat. I just hope she doesn't get upset with me! Though it won't matter...I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

ah, yes, i was rolling the lantus at the beginning too. no rolling it - it's fragile and because it's clear, the med is already suspended in the liquid. don't roll it.

the length of time they last is dependent on when you start using it. so the pens remain good for longer because you haven't begun using them. once you start using them, you get something over a month - regardless of whether it's the pen or the vial.

i've bought 2 pens now- the vial before that. the vial cost me $111 and i threw away quite a bit of it. the pens hold about 1/3 of the vial, i think, but for most cat's doses, the pen even has more than a month worth. at 7ish units punkin's pen lasted less than a month, but at least i used it all up. a local sav-on pharmacy here will sell me one pen for $41, but both pens they've used the $25 lantus website coupon and i've only had to pay $16.

i think some people just switch out at 28 days and some people use the insulin until they see that it seems like the insulin isn't working like it was - they decide that by the testing numbers.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

I had no idea that Lantus had online coupons. I'll certain look for those for next time!! I'll also talk to my vet about giving me a prescription for the pens instead of the vial...anything to save money. I'm just a poor single mom with a kid in college. :roll:
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

Boy, I'm getting a late start this morning. I'm so glad to hear that Champ is feeling better today. Good shooting on the dosecrease.

The manufacturer has tested for a life span of 28 day once the seal on a vial has been breached. They also had the insulin at room temp for these tests. When people used insulin they often carry it with them and since they use much larger amounts, if it is refrigerated it can be uncomfortable. So Sanofri set 28 days as the expected life of the insulin once opened and kept at room temperature. Many people get confused by this and think you have to keep the insulin at room temp once opened. Not true, and the insulin can last longer than the 28 days if kept refrigerated. That's how some people get longer out of a vial or pen. There is just no guarantee.

With the vial you are breaking the seal on the whole 10ml at once. For humans it isn't a big deal since they use a lot more an probably won't reach the expiration date of 28 days suggested by the mfg. Think of the pens as "mini-vials" containing 3ml. A Rx is usually for a pack of 5 pens (Julie is lucky her CVS will sell just one), at 3ml each that is 150ml. They cost about $180 at Costco here. A 10ml vial is about $110, so for $70 more you get 1.5 times the insulin. The real plus w/ the pens is that the countdown on the pens starts when you first break the seal of the individual pen. So you start one pen and all the others are still sealed until you need them, 5 x 28 days.

Another cause of confusion is the needles. The pens are designed to use replaceable needles placed on the tip and the injection is made directly from the pen. We don't use the needles (don't let the pharmacist insist you have to buy them!) because the pens can only dose in full unit increments. The tip of the pen where the needle is meant to be inserted is just like the top of the vial. We simply use our syringes, insert them through the membrane and draw the dose, just like from the vial.

An added plus is the plastic casing and cap. It protects the insulin if you do drop it. Yes you are supposed to handle it gently, but it isn't the end of the world if you drop it. We all have. Just be sure to check every time for cloudiness an/or "floaties". If you see anything unusual, the insulin may be damaged and it's time to start a new pen. And, hey, you've got backups! :lol:
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

Thank you for such good info, Ann!!! I'm definitely going to ask the vet to prescribe the pen and I have a Costco and Sam's Club to check prices here, plus good ol Walmart.

As you can see, Champ is still showing pretty good numbers. Just did his +6 BG and it was 241. Plus, he's acting normal. He stayed awake all morning, which is normal for him, but he was playing all morning too, which he has done very rarely since he was little. Then he took a nap for a couple of hours, but it was a normal kind of sleep where he would lift his head and look at me like, "Why oh why are you disturbing me?" I'm praying like crazy that things only get better from here. Though I'm sure we'll have some rough patches, I just need a break. My entire life has been stressful lately so if Champ gives me a break, all the other stuff won't seem so big anymore either!!!

Thanks for everyone's input. I feel like I've made some new best friends. What a great feeling!!!!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238

Thank you, Julie!! I think he's quite handsome, too. And even though he's twice the size of a yorkie, he's the sweetest guy ever. Your little kit kat looks like a true orange tabby with lots of beautiful hair. I think I brag on my cat as much as I do my daughter!! hahaha
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266

Well it looks like Champ's having a nice gentle curve, but it seems his nadir was pretty early in the curve. He's still acting so normal and I couldn't be happier!!!

I hope everyone else is having as good a day as Champ and I!!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303

Well pooh...i thought we were going to miss pink altogether today. No such luck. I'll probably check his BG when I go to bed tonight and leave him and his little ears alone otherwise.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266

Hey, Patty! Glad I happened to say something bout rolling the vial!! When did you start yours? If you've been rolling it for awhile, I'd start keeping an eye out for wonky numbers around the 1 month mark. My first vial, I did EVERYTHING wrong with it... rolled it, shot air bubbles into it, left it out in the light several times, DROPPED it... egads. It petered out pretty quickly. My second vial I did much better, but I started seeing inconsistent numbers around day 45, so I went ahead and switched to the pen. So don't count on getting 3 months out of the vial... monitor carefully and switch out when you see numbers getting unpredictable in ways that can't be explained by bounces. Some people get up to 4 months out of it... and if you can, awesome! Just be sure you're aware of that variable. You don't want to lose progress because your insulin was too weak.

Costco and Sams will generally sell you single pen, and if you have AAA, they give a discount as well. Here in KC, the pens are $41 each, or $205 for a 5 pack. I know it varies widely from location to location, and it definitely pays to call around to multiple pharmacies to find the best price!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303

Thank you, Christie!!! I DID NOT roll the vial tonight. hahaha. I've been shooting him since 3/27/11 so I rolled that puppy for two weeks. At least the vet had told me to roll it gently so it never got sloshed and I've always kept it in the frig. Truthfully, I can't believe I haven't left it on the counter yet!! I've got to try to make it last as long as possible. I appreciate you telling me what to look for. I'll keep a sharp eye out, on him and what the insulin looks like in the vial. I'm going to get the pens next time, but after reading so many peoples posts about the problems they're having, makes me wonder. I think I'll get two pens at a time, if not the whole 5, just in case something happens to make it unusable.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303

What a nice day overall for Champ. I had seen your question earlier on the insulin vials vs the pens, and had come back now to answer - looks like Ann, and Christie, already did. :-D I really like the pens - so much less waste! I used to throw out half used vials. :roll: On yes on the vial rolling - my vet told me I should be, so I did - for close to.... well, a very very long time. Didn't know either that I couldn't use the vial until there wasn't any left... aiyee! the mistakes I made... :roll: :lol: I hope you like the pens.

Have a great night guys. :-D
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303

Wow! What a difference in your stress level. Patty's stress #s have come wayyyy down. I'm so happy for you and Champ. You're right, it does feel like a bunch of new best friends and new furbaby friends, too. My vet didn't tell me to roll the vial, but didn't mention the air bubbles or squirting insulin back into the vial. I learned all that stuff here. The pens sound like a more economical method and safer too. What a good turn around for Champs and maybe his bean will have a good night's sleep. She sure earned it. Way to go Patty.
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303

Hi Patty...sorry I'm just getting to condos. What a nice day for Champ and it looks like you got a ton of great information today. Ok Champ...let's head for blue tomorrow!!
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303,+3

Oh wouldn't some blues look good!! Not counting on it, but it would look mahvelous.

I got great info today. I actually got a price quote on the pens at Walmart today. My poor daughter has the flu, had to pick up a prescription for her, and asked about them. I forget the formula...how many units are in a 3 ml pen? She said there are 100 units in each pen, five pens per box. I think the math figures it out to 300 units per pen (3 ml x 100). The quantity on the insulin vial is "10" and I know it has 1,000 units in it. So that tells me its 10 x 100. The thing she printed out for me said it was for a quantity of 15 (3 ml x 5 pens) so I have to assume it's 15 x 100. Anyone know for sure?
 
Re: 4/11 Champ AMPS 286, +3 238, +6 241, +9 266, PMPS 303,+3

You got it right! U100 insulin has 100 units per ml. A 3ml. pen has 300 units, x5 = 1500 units of insulin. 10ml vial has 1000 units. I think you get a little price break on the box of 5 and many pharmacies won't break up the box. But if you could print the mfg. coupon and use one every time for a single pen, that would be a great deal.
 
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